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      11-14-2018, 07:04 AM   #1
TheMidnightNarwhal
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E92 window won't go down in cold

Coming up on my first winter with my car and this morning didn't seem promising. It was only -10c (14f) and was able to open the door with a pull but the window didn't go down a little bit as usual with coupes.

So when Iclose it back door wouldn't shut fully.

I then re-shut it a bit harder and it worked but was afraid the glass would hit the trim and maybe break something but it didn't.

Any way to avoid? Trying to lower the window with the switch it wouldn't go down. There wasn't any freezing rain or snow either, it was just cold.

Last edited by TheMidnightNarwhal; 11-14-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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      11-14-2018, 12:13 PM   #2
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I'm not familiar with coupes and I'm not sure if there is a reset feature but my pretty confident there is. Other than i would grease the regulator
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      11-15-2018, 06:17 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by unrulyteach View Post
I'm not familiar with coupes and I'm not sure if there is a reset feature but my pretty confident there is. Other than i would grease the regulator
I don't think the reset feature will do anything. Like my windows work perfectly usually.

It was cold this morning and it worked. I think it may have actually been the ice at the bottom of window that was blocking it.
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      12-07-2018, 07:10 AM   #4
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This morning there was no visual ice and it still wouldn't go down or close properly.

I searched more on this and mainly the issue people are facing is the window is stuck to the top weather strip. But that's not my problem, my problem is I can get the door to open still, but the window doesn't go down at all so when it closes the window hits the top trim. I had to drive like this to work, thankfully the open door chime only chimes once.

Even at work, closing the door was a pain. Eventually I was able to shut it and push the window under the trim.

Maybe my regulator is failing?
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      12-07-2018, 02:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
This morning there was no visual ice and it still wouldn't go down or close properly...Maybe my regulator is failing?
Do I understand correctly that you FIRST had this problem with the Driver Door (Left) window on 11/14, 3+ weeks ago?

How many times did that problem recur between 11/14 & today, 12/7/2018?

If you drive for 20+ minutes with heat on full so that interior of car warms, does the window then work?

Have you tried "helping" the window go down by grasping the glass and pressing down?

Does the OTHER window work properly (1) using the driver switch cluster, and/or (2) using the passenger switch?

Can you control other things such as mirrors and passenger window as normal from the Driver Switch Cluster, and is the driver window the ONLY thing that the Driver Switch Cluster does NOT control properly? That is, do other things controlled by Driver Switch Cluster behave normally during the time that the driver window does NOT operate?

Before you start throwing parts at it, or even taking things apart to test or observe, some analysis of the issue with proper information would be advisable. BTW, do you have INPA or any other software that can do Activations or read Status?

George
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      12-07-2018, 02:43 PM   #6
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So the window isn't going down even after driving the car and everything warming up? Does the window work at all? If yes try the reset method for the window/regulator and if the reset doesn't work then your regulator motor is most likely done if nothing is happening/no noises heard.
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      12-07-2018, 02:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Do I understand correctly that you FIRST had this problem with the Driver Door (Left) window on 11/14, 3+ weeks ago?

How many times did that problem recur between 11/14 & today, 12/7/2018?

If you drive for 20+ minutes with heat on full so that interior of car warms, does the window then work?

Have you tried "helping" the window go down by grasping the glass and pressing down?

Does the OTHER window work properly (1) using the driver switch cluster, and/or (2) using the passenger switch?

Can you control other things such as mirrors and passenger window as normal from the Driver Switch Cluster, and is the driver window the ONLY thing that the Driver Switch Cluster does NOT control properly?

Before you start throwing parts at it, or even taking things apart to test or observe, some analysis of the issue with proper information would be advisable. BTW, do you have INPA or any other software that can do Activations or read Status?

George
Yeah first encountered the problem at that date, when it was about -10c. This morning it was -14c.

Problem did not occur until today as it hasn't really been past -8c .

Yes I would suppose if I drive for 20 minutes it works after. Because when I come back from work it is usually hotter outside and it works ok.

This morning I kind of tried to push it down and wiggle it to maybe crack the ice or whatever was holding it, no luck. I eventually was able to close the door so I could lock my car by shutting the door strongly and physically push the window so it seals under trim, but I'm sure that's not something good to do and might even shatter my window? I had to drive to work with my door half closed, like it was latched but it was telling me to close it and could hear wind coming in lol.

One thing that felt odd is as you say, I tried lowering my passenger window from the driver switch, and I could hear it move for like .2 seconds as if it was trying to push through, but driver side I wasn't really hearing anything I recall.

I did not try moving my mirrors so I cannot chime in.

Thanks George, I appreciate someone helping me out haha, I'm really not sure how to start fixing this like you say without throwing parts at it. Yes I have INPA and ISTA, I think I'll need to reinstall them. tho.
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      12-07-2018, 02:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
So the window isn't going down even after driving the car and everything warming up? Does the window work at all? If yes try the reset method for the window/regulator and if the reset doesn't work then your regulator motor is most likely done if nothing is happening/no noises heard.
I'm sure if I drove 20 mins yes. But my drive to work is like 7 minutes.

Like I will come back from work and now that it is hotter outside I am sure it's going to work fine now.

And the thing is this morning, there isn't even any snow nor freezing rain or ice that I can see
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      12-07-2018, 03:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
Yeah first encountered the problem at that date [11/14], when it was about -10c. This morning [12/7] it was -14c. Problem did not occur until today as it hasn't really been past -8c ...when I come back from work it is usually hotter outside and it works ok.
This morning I kind of tried to push it down and wiggle it to maybe crack the ice or whatever was holding it, no luck.

I tried lowering my passenger window from the driver switch, and I could hear it move for like .2 seconds as if it was trying to push through, but driver side I wasn't really hearing anything I recall. I did not try moving my mirrors...Yes I have INPA and ISTA, I think I'll need to reinstall them. tho.
Sounds like a temperature-related ELECTRICAL issue rather than mechanical issue (NOT frozen water/ice, or even sticking regulator. If it were a "frozen water" issue, sitting overnight in <0C temps would cause the problem, but you say it doesn't occur unless temp is <-8C, so there seems to be something "electrically-magic" about -8C. Got a power inverter (12VDC to 115V AC), and a heatgun? Try using that to heat up the Switch Cluster (without frying the uphostery/trim ;-).

During your ownership, have you noticed any other intermittent issues with the Driver Door Switch Cluster?

I assume you have tried to open the window AFTER starting the engine and the switch cluster button still doesn't do anything even when system voltage is ~ 14.5V rather than the ~12.5V without engine/alternator running?

Try operating each exterior mirror from the Driver Switch Cluster, both when the driver window is OK, and when it is not. What results?

I'm NOT familiar with the coupe cluster controls; Does the Driver Door Switch Cluster control anything OTHER than the front windows and mirrors? If so, try same drill as mirrors described above. Keep in mind that this Cluster is using the LIN-BUS to send signals to the FRM to control the windows & mirrors, so any communication error in the LIN-BUS would cause the intermittent problem you describe. INPA would probably show some type of communication Fault in FRM memory.

Here are TIS circuit diagrams for (1) Power Window Inputs and (2) Exterior Mirrors for your 2011 335i E92:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/uLU1dRI
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...irrors/vBs9cBm

Also, it would be key to isolating the cause to the driver switch cluster to try operating the passenger window from the passenger door switch. If you had INPA running, you could activate the driver door window directly via your computer keyboard and bypass the Driver Switch Cluster, further isolating the problem.

IDEA 2.0:
Since the intermittent fault appears to clearly be related to ambient temp, and metal (think electrical contacts/ wires ;-) contracts with reduced temp, quite possibly a loose/ broken contact/ wire. Linked below is the X257 connector at the front of Driver Door where the LIN-BUS wire from the Door Switch Cluster connects to wiring that goes to the FRM. If I had your issue, I would be particularly interested in the White/Brown wire (LIN_BUS) that goes from Pin #4 of Connector X10725 of the Cluster (A23b) or "Switch block" to Pin #6 of Connector X257 at the door front, and then to Pin #23 of Connector X14260 at the FRM.

TIS X257 Wiring Diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...7-x257/bkU1A9q

X257 Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-335i-cou/RHEGwIv

X257 Connector View:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-cou/CTDOrVKY

Maybe point that heat gun at X257 instead?

Please let us know what you find,
George
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      12-07-2018, 04:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Sounds like a temperature-related ELECTRICAL issue rather than mechanical issue (NOT frozen water/ice, or even sticking regulator. If it were a "frozen water" issue, sitting overnight in <0C temps would cause the problem, but you say it doesn't occur unless temp is <-8C, so there seems to be something "electrically-magic" about -8C. Got a power inverter (12VDC to 115V AC), and a heatgun? Try using that to heat up the Switch Cluster (without frying the uphostery/trim ;-).

During your ownership, have you noticed any other intermittent issues with the Driver Door Switch Cluster?

I assume you have tried to open the window AFTER starting the engine and the switch cluster button still doesn't do anything even when system voltage is ~ 14.5V rather than the ~12.5V without engine/alternator running?

Try operating each exterior mirror from the Driver Switch Cluster, both when the driver window is OK, and when it is not. What results?

I'm NOT familiar with the coupe cluster controls; Does the Driver Door Switch Cluster control anything OTHER than the front windows and mirrors? If so, try same drill as mirrors described above. Keep in mind that this Cluster is using the LIN-BUS to send signals to the FRM to control the windows & mirrors, so any communication error in the LIN-BUS would cause the intermittent problem you describe. INPA would probably show some type of communication Fault in FRM memory.

Here are TIS circuit diagrams for (1) Power Window Inputs and (2) Exterior Mirrors for your 2011 335i E92:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/uLU1dRI
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...irrors/vBs9cBm

Also, it would be key to isolating the cause to the driver switch cluster to try operating the passenger window from the passenger door switch. If you had INPA running, you could activate the driver door window directly via your computer keyboard and bypass the Driver Switch Cluster, further isolating the problem.

IDEA 2.0:
Since the intermittent fault appears to clearly be related to ambient temp, and metal (think electrical contacts/ wires ;-) contracts with reduced temp, quite possibly a loose/ broken contact/ wire. Linked below is the X257 connector at the front of Driver Door where the LIN-BUS wire from the Door Switch Cluster connects to wiring that goes to the FRM. If I had your issue, I would be particularly interested in the White/Brown wire (LIN_BUS) that goes from Pin #4 of Connector X10725 of the Cluster (A23b) or "Switch block" to Pin #6 of Connector X257 at the door front, and then to Pin #23 of Connector X14260 at the FRM.

TIS X257 Wiring Diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...7-x257/bkU1A9q

X257 Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-335i-cou/RHEGwIv

X257 Connector View:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-cou/CTDOrVKY

Maybe point that heat gun at X257 instead?

Please let us know what you find,
George
Wow man thanks for that thorough reply, I kinda feel bad saying this now... I think it may be a mechanical/physical problem after all. Let me explain.

I came back from work and when I pulled the handle the window didn't go down but came out perfectly... looks like it wasn't all the way up all day (maybe when like I said I tried to push it down so it could close it went down by a few millimetres). So got in, noticed window did not roll back up, started the car. Pressed down switch to lower my window and it went down after a .5 struggle. I heard some kind of ice breaking so seems like it was stuck like that. Then the window wouldn't go back up with 1 touch. Drove off and as soon as I did one touch was restored.

What I will do to test this out before going the electrical route, I will apply more rubber protector (Sonax gummipfleger) literally all around my window seals, compared to just the door seals that I did before winter. We will see how that works.

Once again thanks for that long and thorough reply lol, should come in handy for sure if the gummipfleger doesn't work, I shall let you know!
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      12-08-2018, 06:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Sounds like a temperature-related ELECTRICAL issue rather than mechanical issue (NOT frozen water/ice, or even sticking regulator. If it were a "frozen water" issue, sitting overnight in <0C temps would cause the problem, but you say it doesn't occur unless temp is <-8C, so there seems to be something "electrically-magic" about -8C. Got a power inverter (12VDC to 115V AC), and a heatgun? Try using that to heat up the Switch Cluster (without frying the uphostery/trim ;-).

During your ownership, have you noticed any other intermittent issues with the Driver Door Switch Cluster?

I assume you have tried to open the window AFTER starting the engine and the switch cluster button still doesn't do anything even when system voltage is ~ 14.5V rather than the ~12.5V without engine/alternator running?

Try operating each exterior mirror from the Driver Switch Cluster, both when the driver window is OK, and when it is not. What results?

I'm NOT familiar with the coupe cluster controls; Does the Driver Door Switch Cluster control anything OTHER than the front windows and mirrors? If so, try same drill as mirrors described above. Keep in mind that this Cluster is using the LIN-BUS to send signals to the FRM to control the windows & mirrors, so any communication error in the LIN-BUS would cause the intermittent problem you describe. INPA would probably show some type of communication Fault in FRM memory.

Here are TIS circuit diagrams for (1) Power Window Inputs and (2) Exterior Mirrors for your 2011 335i E92:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...inputs/uLU1dRI
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...irrors/vBs9cBm

Also, it would be key to isolating the cause to the driver switch cluster to try operating the passenger window from the passenger door switch. If you had INPA running, you could activate the driver door window directly via your computer keyboard and bypass the Driver Switch Cluster, further isolating the problem.

IDEA 2.0:
Since the intermittent fault appears to clearly be related to ambient temp, and metal (think electrical contacts/ wires ;-) contracts with reduced temp, quite possibly a loose/ broken contact/ wire. Linked below is the X257 connector at the front of Driver Door where the LIN-BUS wire from the Door Switch Cluster connects to wiring that goes to the FRM. If I had your issue, I would be particularly interested in the White/Brown wire (LIN_BUS) that goes from Pin #4 of Connector X10725 of the Cluster (A23b) or "Switch block" to Pin #6 of Connector X257 at the door front, and then to Pin #23 of Connector X14260 at the FRM.

TIS X257 Wiring Diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...7-x257/bkU1A9q

X257 Installation Location:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-335i-cou/RHEGwIv

X257 Connector View:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-cou/CTDOrVKY

Maybe point that heat gun at X257 instead?

Please let us know what you find,
George
Wow man thanks for that thorough reply, I kinda feel bad saying this now... I think it may be a mechanical/physical problem after all. Let me explain.

I came back from work and when I pulled the handle the window didn't go down but came out perfectly... looks like it wasn't all the way up all day (maybe when like I said I tried to push it down so it could close it went down by a few millimetres). So got in, noticed window did not roll back up, started the car. Pressed down switch to lower my window and it went down after a .5 struggle. I heard some kind of ice breaking so seems like it was stuck like that. Then the window wouldn't go back up with 1 touch. Drove off and as soon as I did one touch was restored.

What I will do to test this out before going the electrical route, I will apply more rubber protector (Sonax gummipfleger) literally all around my window seals, compared to just the door seals that I did before winter. We will see how that works.

Once again thanks for that long and thorough reply lol, should come in handy for sure if the gummipfleger doesn't work, I shall let you know!
Use Ista D and see if you can activate it the next time it dies that. If no dice, I'd say the motor is on its way out. I don't think you have a regulator problem.
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      12-13-2018, 11:15 AM   #12
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BMWs notoriously have pathetic window regulators that don't go down in the winter due to any ice whatsoever.
I've gone through this with E46 and now E92. its a huge issue with coupes because it doesn't function properly and its going to hit the top and then over time just rattle and have a horrible seal etc. I bought a winter beater and learned a lesson that in Canada coupes are not an option for me unless I park it for the winter.
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      12-13-2018, 11:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylane_92 View Post
BMWs notoriously have pathetic window regulators that don't go down in the winter due to any ice whatsoever.
I've gone through this with E46 and now E92. its a huge issue with coupes because it doesn't function properly and its going to hit the top and then over time just rattle and have a horrible seal etc. I bought a winter beater and learned a lesson that in Canada coupes are not an option for me unless I park it for the winter.
When you were using them in the winter, did you do any tips or tricks to get it to go or nothing would work unless the car got warm for 20 minutes?

This morning it was -15c and surprisingly both windows were working fine even though I only applied some protector on the driver side. I think it has to do with snow or humidity and than it freezing down in the door? I dunno man this is weird.
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      12-13-2018, 11:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
What I will do to test this out before going the electrical route, I will apply more rubber protector (Sonax gummipfleger) literally all around my window seals, compared to just the door seals that I did before winter. We will see how that works.
!
I treat all door/window rubber every fall with pure silicone grease
it's likely what's in the fancy sonax product. way cheaper. neater to apply not in spray can. Simply wipe it on.
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      12-13-2018, 02:46 PM   #15
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I treat all door/window rubber every fall with pure silicone grease
it's likely what's in the fancy sonax product. way cheaper. neater to apply not in spray can. Simply wipe it on.
Yeah it might possibly be the same thing. Sonax bottle is not a spray either.

Apparently you can buy some type of spray that melts ice or make your own out of isopropyl and water. So technically if I spray it at the bottom of the window seal it should help in those mornings where it doesn't budge.
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      12-13-2018, 03:01 PM   #16
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if you have ice inside the lower window seal you need a new window seal.

grease is acceptable for the top and channels that the glass rides in and touches, but you can't trat the lower window seal with it or it will smear all over the glass.

90% isopropyl alcohol has a freezing point well below 0, but spilling alcohol all over your rubber and paint is not a great solution. Fix the issue, not the symptoms.
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      12-16-2018, 01:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
When you were using them in the winter, did you do any tips or tricks to get it to go or nothing would work unless the car got warm for 20 minutes?

This morning it was -15c and surprisingly both windows were working fine even though I only applied some protector on the driver side. I think it has to do with snow or humidity and than it freezing down in the door? I dunno man this is weird.
The e46 was a sedan so I just waited a while to use them (didn't really need to use them in winter) I have no tips for the e92 I bought another car immedietly because I was thinking about doing it anyway to keep mine mint instead of covered with salt all winter
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      01-07-2019, 11:55 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsjames View Post
if you have ice inside the lower window seal you need a new window seal.

grease is acceptable for the top and channels that the glass rides in and touches, but you can't trat the lower window seal with it or it will smear all over the glass.

90% isopropyl alcohol has a freezing point well below 0, but spilling alcohol all over your rubber and paint is not a great solution. Fix the issue, not the symptoms.
Update. Have not had my driver side window freeze on me and it's been much colder. I think my issue is resolved. Just had to lube all the seals around it.

I don't think there is an actual issue with the lower seal, it's just how it is in Canada haha
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      01-07-2019, 11:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dylane_92 View Post
The e46 was a sedan so I just waited a while to use them (didn't really need to use them in winter) I have no tips for the e92 I bought another car immedietly because I was thinking about doing it anyway to keep mine mint instead of covered with salt all winter
Yeah I was on the fence for the salt thing to. But then I learned the pannels that were not plastic were galvanized steel so it didn't seem to bad. And I have my underpannel which protects from most of the salty water and I sprayed slight ammount of anti rust in the door pannel corners and plan to do so on suspension parts to.

And I give a weekly touchless wash using optimum no rinse wash and wax and water from the coin wash.
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