[scooba0010]

I was once told by a wise man anyone can spend money.But it takes a wise man to save it.

He also told me put a bit by for a rainy day but dont miss all the sunshine .

Unfortunatly we live in a must have culture and have been encouraged to borrow money from any where we can /cards/loans/mortgages /HP /lease deals etc.I have always been of the opinion it isnt really yours its like driving round in the bank managers car.

I am sure plenty on here will disagree with me ,its only my opinion afterall.

Here is a question how many people on here owe more on there car than there worth .

who has borrowed time and again against there house to fund new cars /holidays or rammed it on there credit cards .

Falling house prices so what is my opinion i here average drops in price of 17% good keep droping i say .Prices had become unsustainable .My brother has bought 8 buy to let in the last 3-4 years i bet he is shitting himself .it was fine on a rising market but now he will need to sit tight or take some losses thats if he can sell any of them.

As i said i owe nothing to anybody zilch .so i have no worries my house may have dropped 17% but will always be worth more than nothing .I even considered buying some lloyds tsb stock yesterday as they look so cheap .I even bought some Hsbc stock as they are a bargin .

Who is to blame for all this mess labour party/ mr brown who knows or is it human greed ie want want want

I am guessing some people who use this forum have had some scary trade in figures on there cars recently.I was in my local BMW dealer yesterday it is full to the brim with cars they cant move .One salesman said it was so so quiet .

I had a quote from there newly opened bodyshop a dent in my passenger door £647. they must be f------ mad.I went round to the bodyshop who did there work up until this year £250 .They sure no how to make you feel good Thieving Bastards the guy said we will put it down for a repair not a door skin t---.


Loads of things to think about look forward to your comments

[Dave_3]

Pretty much agree with all that. Probably the old Scottish thing, a complete dislike of debt. "Bought and paid for" was sometimes seen as a waste of money, but oweing nothig in this climate doesn't seem so bad.

Another thing I find a bit odd (and very telling) is when I see posts asking how to patch punctured tyres, because they baulk at everyone's advice that it would be safer to buy a new one at a few hundred pounds. And this when they have paid (or more likely leased) a c. £40k motor car, even saw that asked of someone driving an M3.

D.

Originally Posted by scooba0010

I was once told by a wise man anyone can spend money.But it takes a wise man to save it.

He also told me put a bit by for a rainy day but dont miss all the sunshine .

Unfortunatly we live in a must have culture and have been encouraged to borrow money from any where we can /cards/loans/mortgages /HP /lease deals etc.I have always been of the opinion it isnt really yours its like driving round in the bank managers car.

I am sure plenty on here will disagree with me ,its only my opinion afterall.

Here is a question how many people on here owe more on there car than there worth .

who has borrowed time and again against there house to fund new cars /holidays or rammed it on there credit cards .

Falling house prices so what is my opinion i here average drops in price of 17% good keep droping i say .Prices had become unsustainable .My brother has bought 8 buy to let in the last 3-4 years i bet he is shitting himself .it was fine on a rising market but now he will need to sit tight or take some losses thats if he can sell any of them.

As i said i owe nothing to anybody zilch .so i have no worries my house may have dropped 17% but will always be worth more than nothing .I even considered buying some lloyds tsb stock yesterday as they look so cheap .I even bought some Hsbc stock as they are a bargin .

Who is to blame for all this mess labour party/ mr brown who knows or is it human greed ie want want want

I am guessing some people who use this forum have had some scary trade in figures on there cars recently.I was in my local BMW dealer yesterday it is full to the brim with cars they cant move .One salesman said it was so so quiet .

I had a quote from there newly opened bodyshop a dent in my passenger door £647. they must be f------ mad.I went round to the bodyshop who did there work up until this year £250 .They sure no how to make you feel good Thieving Bastards the guy said we will put it down for a repair not a door skin t---.


Loads of things to think about look forward to your comments

[gIzzE]

I think it depends what the economy was doing when you needed to buy your first house?

I know when I needed to buy my first house, because I had my daughter at 21 and I was forced to be sensible, a nice 2 bed terrace in the right area was approx. double the average wage in the area.
I was working at Richer Sounds at the time and was taking between £17-21k a year home (this was 15 years ago), and the houses were between £34-40k.

Now we bought the top end one at £40k, put down £4k and paid the rest on a 10 year mortgage at £390 a month I think it was.



Now lets look at those that bought the same hosues a year or two back, they are going for £130-170k and those same people are earning what?? Maybe £20-25k.

Now that same house with only a 5% deposit over 25 years is going to cost someone £1150 a month.


When you can't actually see any of your debt being cleared I guess you think 'Fuck it!' and you do live in a world of borrowing, you have no choice so you run with it.



There are not many people who can afford to live in this country any more, and that is why we are now seeing the credit crunch, the government has been allowing people to top up their shit incomes by borrowing, and now it is starting to bite back.

So OK being righteous if we were lucky to get in at the right time, but go back to looking at real world costs now comapred with youngsters earnings, would you hoenstly be able to live debt free if you were earning what you were when you were 21 with the cost of living as it is??

[gIzzE]

Should just add, my current property was valued at £860k last year when we swapped our mortgage over, that is for our flat and the shop.
£520k for the Shop and £340k for the flat.

We have had it valued again this year as I am thinking of selling the flat back to the shop and buying a somwhere down the road that has come up, and it has been valued at £700k, worse thing is the flat has been hit hardest of the two, and that is what I wanted to be valued highest.
So even though I have been fairly sensible over the years moving at the right time etc. I have been hit pretty hard. My £200k equity has been halfed over night, those mates that bought maybe 5 years after me and have not kept borrowing against their properties have pretty much had their equity wiped out.
So even the sensible ones get stuffed! It all comes down to when you bought.

[scooba0010]

I first bought in 1987 house was £30,500. I moved around a bit and finally settled here 13 years ago and paid £190k with £80k mortgage over 20 years i had it paid off in ten .I have watched prices go mental over the last ten years we bought our house at the time no one was buying some of our neighbours paid £250 for the same house as ours and had lost 60k .All that said i really want places to drop in value

why you may ask for the very reason you mention above .we have three boys aged from 14 to 22 i dont think they had a chance but now with falling prices things are looking very good give it six months and i think we are going to dive in and grab two or three bargins and if my wife wont let them leave we will rent them out but as we are sort of cash rich i think buying at a sensible price with a 50% deposit should make renting them easy as we wont be looking to cover a huge mortgage proberbly in the region of 80 or 90 k ,Round my way rents start at £800 for two bedroom flats .

I havent done the maths yet but i reckon with the decent deposits i will be offered some good mortgage deals for the boys and as they are first time buyers etc with no chain in a very good position .One thing i wont be doing unlike a friend of mine is looking for repo propertys just a bit to ruthless for my thinking but i will be out to bag a few bargins .

I always like a good deal ,tight with money .

[NFS]

Originally Posted by scooba0010

I first bought in 1987 house was £30,500. I moved around a bit and finally settled here 13 years ago and paid £190k with £80k mortgage over 20 years i had it paid off in ten .I have watched prices go mental over the last ten years we bought our house at the time no one was buying some of our neighbours paid £250 for the same house as ours and had lost 60k .All that said i really want places to drop in value

why you may ask for the very reason you mention above .we have three boys aged from 14 to 22 i dont think they had a chance but now with falling prices things are looking very good give it six months and i think we are going to dive in and grab two or three bargins and if my wife wont let them leave we will rent them out but as we are sort of cash rich i think buying at a sensible price with a 50% deposit should make renting them easy as we wont be looking to cover a huge mortgage proberbly in the region of 80 or 90 k ,Round my way rents start at £800 for two bedroom flats .

I havent done the maths yet but i reckon with the decent deposits i will be offered some good mortgage deals for the boys and as they are first time buyers etc with no chain in a very good position .One thing i wont be doing unlike a friend of mine is looking for repo propertys just a bit to ruthless for my thinking but i will be out to bag a few bargins .

I always like a good deal ,tight with money .

I think it would be quite easy to live debt free if I'd bought my first house in 1987!

The people who will be suffering here are the younger generation, particulary if they entered the housing market within the last 6 years. I got in just in time, buying my first place 9 years ago. This let me carry some equity into my current house when I bought it 5 years back.

Some people have been irresponsible, but many many more have had no choice other than to take on big debts. My family needed somewhere to live! I didn't want a big mortgage, but what else could I do??

If anything though I see the fall in house prices as a positive.

If we see a drop in value of 35% from last years peak then it will help anyone trying to improve their position.

At the moment if I own a £300K house and want to buy a £500k one I need to find £200K - that isn't going to happen.

But with a 35% fall my house drops to £195k and the bigger one drops to £325k. So the gap becomes £130k, which is a lot more achievable.

Obviously this only helps if you have enough equity in your current property to be able to sell it. Again this is where the people who bought in the last 6 years have the problem.

[gIzzE]

And there lies the problem, even though the house I am now lookin at is down to o.i.r.o £350k down from £450k 5 months ago, and I have been told the seller needs £310k to be able to move so would probably take this.

I now need 25% deposit to get an alright deal, and I did a silly thing last year and put the £60k I owed as a loan for the shares, when buying my business out, on my mortagage. Now, it made sense at the time as the property is worth far more than £60k, I had taken a £100k loan out over 10 years which was costing me £1100 a month, so addding the remaining £60k onto a property worth £900k was not a problem.
However, it is now, as I now owe £200k on a property that has dropped from £340k to maybe £250k, which means after stamp duty on the other one I don't actually have 25% deposit.
And this is where the problems start, I guess I should grab this house as it is a bargain, I am getting it for the price it 'may' drop to in 6-12 months, however, it means taking out another loan again, which means my outgoings raise by £800 a month, and if things get tighter and I don't get my dividend payouts I will find it a struggle each month.
So I guess I play it safe and sit tight, which is what everyone else is doing and which is what is causing the planet to gring to a halt.

[scooba0010]

Hi NFS , 35% drop that would be really good .I hope they do .I dont wish negative equity on anybody but to be honest i have been waiting for a down turn in the market .I was begining to think it would never happen but belive me i will be cashing in big time .

What mortgage deals are there ?? .I belive the rates for buy to lets are slightly higher than standard rates .But i will be going in with the intention of the boys living in them ,well the older two anyway.If renting is the way forward i think it will be good as my youngest will have a massive head start on the property market big deposit and proberbly half of the mortgage paid time he is ready to think about moving in to it .

[scooba0010]

Hi Guy ,why not make a appointment with the bank manager and have a down to earth chat .I bet he will listen and may be able to help you find what you need .

Make the agent understand that you want it but only on your terms .I saw one agent on tv saying it was so slow it would take 50 years to sell the property on there books at current rates of 1 or 2 a week .

I have no sympathy for estate agents .sc-- of the earth .Sorry if anyone here is a estate agent but you lot have had it so so good for the last ten years its now time to suffer ,my local independent agent drives A range rover vogue ,a bentley continental gt and a bentley continental convertible .I couldnt help notice recently some one had scribed the word C--t in huge writing down one side .He parks them anywhere and collects parking tickets he is full of himself big time charlie .love to see him go bust .not very likly but i was told one of his managers quit and the poor guy had to go and run the local branch as things have slowed down so much ahhhhh poor lamb .

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by scooba0010

Hi Guy ,why not make a appointment with the bank manager and have a down to earth chat .I bet he will listen and may be able to help you find what you need.

I have a really good mortgage bloke and we can do it and make it work, but right now I think I should be holding tight, maybe whack my current mortgage down to 10 years or something, just feel now is not the time to be trying to do stuff.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

I have a really good mortgage bloke and we can do it and make it work, but right now I think I should be holding tight, maybe whack my current mortgage down to 10 years or something, just feel now is not the time to be trying to do stuff.

I think that's a good call. Although as you say it's also the reason for the depth of the problem.

Right now in my area house prices are about 11% below the peak (which was Q3 or Q4 07)

I reckon that prices will continue to drop until the economy stabilises. Can't see that happening before Christmas unfortunately, so I think there is a strong chance that we will see a further 25% drop in house prices between now and the new year.

I don't think that's going to be a long term drop though. I think inflation will tail off, due to the fact that everyone has stopped spending money. Plus the interest rates will stay low.

It's all very artificial right now in the housing and car markets though. Values are tanking almost entirely due to a lack of demand.

I've been looking at quite a few cars lately and it really seems like the dealers are destroying the market. They are still trying to make their cut, so they are killing people on trade in, but then selling lower and lower and the spiral repeats.

As with houses, the current prices represent what is effectively a distress sale. Most people are not buying of selling and those that ARE buying are taking the proverbial.

I'm crossing my fingers for some sort of recovery mid to late 09.

In the meantime, I am getting closer and closer to deciding to buy a great big 5.0 litre V8 before they are made illegal.

[scooba0010]

So how bad do you really think it is out there .I heard house prices down around 10 to 15% and that was the asking price but selling about another 10 per cent below that .

I have put 4 sizeable chunks on 6 month bonds paying 6.5% this week and im hoping there will be some more falls price wise in the near future so im thinking APRIL is about right to seriously consider buying property .

Local BMW stealer is totally rammed with stock i wonder what discounts are available now .I am sure the 14 % plus are around again .proberbly not the time to buy though as you say they want to give you nothing for the trade in .the thing is nothing looked cheap to me there was a couple of secondhand e93 m3 with dct box priced at a reasonable £54,995 wtf looked pricey to me but what do i know .I think i have seen DB9 at £65 k and some bentley cgt sub 60k

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by scooba0010

So how bad do you really think it is out there?

It is fucked mate.

I am in retail and we also supply to retailers, both independents and multiples, and I can tell you now that there are many thinking of calling it a day.

It started last Autumn, towards the end of September and it is getting worse and worse.


A good customer of ours has around 300 properties, all over the UK, and he says that the reports may be saying 15% but for anything to move it is more like 30-40%.
He sold a club, or wine bar, something like that, in Southend last month that was on for £2.2m for just over a million, and the buyer nearly pulled out at the last minute cause he thought he was going to loose even more.
That shows what is really going on.

I was told that the local BMW dealer wrote off £125k last Friday to try and shift some units, that is £125k in one day. You don't do that unless business is fucked.

[jjbirch]

i know what u mean, i work on alot of holiday sites in the winter for one man that has 14 sites in the southwest, when we start about 6 years ago our first winter job was to put in 40 bases for static vans on a site they were sold before we even finsihed the job, 3 years ago we started putting in lodge bases 40 at a time we would start on from fresh just a field put in sewers water roads turf the whole lot, even in 06 we had to go back to one site and put in 10 more bases as they sold out, these are priced 110k with a 35 year lease, anyway we put in 28 in 07/08 and finished in jan,to date he as sold 4 he has 15 lodges sat there at 50k a pop to buy, and we our quite as in the summer we do private tarmac drives and groundwork, i cant see us doing much this winter for him the the holiday trade is f**ked

[gIzzE]

Where is that?? I wouldn't mind a log cabin type thing to get away at the weekends.

[jjbirch]

its in looe cornwall next to richard and judy seen them a few times in the winter, i think hes dropped the price to 95k

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by jjbirch

its in looe cornwall next to richard and judy seen them a few times in the winter, i think hes dropped the price to 95k

In the last picture that reliant in white looks mega.

the old man(god rest his soul) had a relaint 750L, what a machine.

[scooba0010]

We had a green reliant van in the 80s .We bought it for £100 with my brother in law .It was a awesome beast until he decided to drive it flat out in reverse and attempt a j turn it flipped over completly smashing the door pillar and roof .At the time i was so pissed but my mate was in the passenger seat eating chips and freaked out as he was covered in them /tomato sauce and could smell petrol ,he thought it was going to catch light he proper shit himself .We managed to sell it for £60 for parts proberbly the least i ever lost on a car .Proberbly the most fun as well as everyone wanted a ride in the green pig .

We ran it out of petrol about two miles from the nearest garage and pushed it there albeit on the flat but what fun

[jjbirch]

hahaha you u love the van, a old man drives it to the local shop and back every day, i dont think he got the balls to take on a motorway, next time ill ask if he wants to down size to a M6 steve u may get a swap lol

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by scooba0010

We had a green reliant van in the 80s .We bought it for £100 with my brother in law .It was a awesome beast until he decided to drive it flat out in reverse and attempt a j turn it flipped over completly smashing the door pillar and roof .At the time i was so pissed but my mate was in the passenger seat eating chips and freaked out as he was covered in them /tomato sauce and could smell petrol ,he thought it was going to catch light he proper shit himself .We managed to sell it for £60 for parts proberbly the least i ever lost on a car .Proberbly the most fun as well as everyone wanted a ride in the green pig .

We ran it out of petrol about two miles from the nearest garage and pushed it there albeit on the flat but what fun

Originally Posted by jjbirch

hahaha you u love the van, a old man drives it to the local shop and back every day, i dont think he got the balls to take on a motorway, next time ill ask if he wants to down size to a M6 steve u may get a swap lol

seriously im going to see if i can find one and buy it.

Get the thing proppery sorted and come to the next trackday in it

I bet it would still beat nicolas MG

[jjbirch]

what would u say steve sell me sell me lol, i think i would be fun

[scooba0010]

Nice blue reliant rialto for sale on ebay £200 in barnsley requires head gasket then is ready to race