[OpenFlash]

Hi guys,
A surprising comment was made on another forum about the "downsides" of running a 3 bar MAP sensor on a Procede:

No problem with our G4 or PRO board. Both have lots of spare analog inputs. But I don't suggest a 3 bar unless you really need it for large turbos. Drops you down to around 1/2psi resolution on the 10 bit ADC the G4 (and PROCede) use.

For those who took a basic programming class, 10 bit means 1023 input possibilities. So with with a 3 bar maps sensor that covers 45psi of pressure (15 of atmos+30 of boost), you get 45/1023 or .044psi. Not "around 1/2psi" as suggested.

Cheers
shiv

[2 3pair]

Maybe he meant around 1/20th and just lost a 0 somewhere

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi guys,
A surprising comment was made on another forum about the "downsides" of running a 3 bar MAP sensor on a Procede:



For those who took a basic programming class, 10 bit means 1023 input possibilities. So with with a 3 bar maps sensor that covers 45psi of pressure (15 of atmos+30 of boost), you get 45/1023 or .044psi. Not "around 1/2psi" as suggested.

Cheers
shiv

I havent taken any programming classes but this makes pefect sense. I can always count on you to straighten it out. Thanks Shiv!

BTW, I just got off the phone with HPF, they said they are making EMS as we speak. They said that it would be standalone like their e46 m3 software. Can you elaborate on what this means and how it will "supposedly" be different than what is currently offered on the N54 market.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I havent taken any programming classes but this makes pefect sense. I can always count on you to straighten it out. Thanks Shiv!

BTW, I just got off the phone with HPF, they said they are making EMS as we speak. They said that it would be standalone like their e46 m3 software. Can you elaborate on what this means and how it will "supposedly" be different than what is currently offered on the N54 market.

I'm really not familiar with HPFs engine management systems. So I wouldn't be the best person to ask. I think the Procede blurred the line between Stand-Alone and Piggyback so it's really anyone's guess at this point. Ask HPF

shiv

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm really not familiar with HPFs engine management systems. So I wouldn't be the best person to ask. I think the Procede blurred the line between Stand-Alone and Piggyback so it's really anyone's guess at this point. Ask HPF

shiv

LOL, I did. The sales rep. couldnt really explain which is why I asked you. I just didnt know what they meant by stand-alone.

[techlogik]

2^10 = 1024

2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024


14.7+30= 44.7 / 1024 = .04365

Unless one channel/input can't be used..then 1023...and 1 atmosphere is 14.7 at sea level?!?!?!

But 1-2 psi is close enough for JB and Terry....

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Penn999

LOL, I did. The sales rep. couldnt really explain which is why I asked you. I just didnt know what they meant by stand-alone.

Typical "stand-alone" management systems allow the end user to control the settings of what makes the car tick. There are ups and downs to this methodology.

THEORETICALLY, the end user MIGHT be able to squeeze out the most HP out of the car using a stand-alone, HOWEVER, the amount of time effort and tuning, and battles inbetween REALLY cant be justified when the procede really puts you 99% there with autotune.

One more downside of the standalone is temperature changes, elevation changes, octane changes, modification changes, methanol flow rate changes ETC ETC wont adapt like you would find in a Procede. You will have to tune out all of these things as they start changing.

So as I mentioned before, a stand-alone might be able to produce some good numbers on the dyno one day, but the day to day grind, month to month changes, ETC will likely need minute adjustments here and there, making it a career more then an enjoyment.

Last but not least, the only REAL benefit of standalone at this point would be able to create your own boost curves and ignition curves and fuel curves. For the majority of people here that is a lot of work that is really not needed but there will always be a small percentage that thinks this might be the way to go, and to them I say have fun! Ive already went down that road, it was a good learning experience.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by 2 3pair

Maybe he meant around 1/20th and just lost a 0 somewhere

He said typo

He meant about 1/2 tenth or ~.05psi.

Corrected statement

No problem with our G4 or PRO board. Both have lots of spare analog inputs. But I don't suggest a 3 bar unless you really need it for large turbos. Drops you down to around 1/2 of a tenth psi (.05) resolution on the 10 bit ADC the G4 (and PROCede) use. Our PRO has 12 bit.

That is correct, I meant 1/2 of a tenth or ~.05 psi. The actual resolution drop is 20% or so. I would not worry about it with a large turbo system, as the extra range is more important, but for a factory turbo system may lead to less precise control. The better solution for an OEM turbo car is to blend the two OEM map sensors to produce a full resolution vacuum to boost scale as the factory DME does. Or go to a 12 bit ADC to avoid resolution drop.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

He said typo

He meant about 1/2 tenth or ~.05psi.

Corrected statement

So it was a typo? He meant to type "1/2 of a one-tenth of a PSI"? that's awesome.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

He said typo

He meant about 1/2 tenth or ~.05psi.

Corrected statement

Yaaayyy...he knows math after all!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Typical "stand-alone" management systems allow the end user to control the settings of what makes the car tick. There are ups and downs to this methodology.

THEORETICALLY, the end user MIGHT be able to squeeze out the most HP out of the car using a stand-alone, HOWEVER, the amount of time effort and tuning, and battles inbetween REALLY cant be justified when the procede really puts you 99% there with autotune.

One more downside of the standalone is temperature changes, elevation changes, octane changes, modification changes, methanol flow rate changes ETC ETC wont adapt like you would find in a Procede. You will have to tune out all of these things as they start changing.

So as I mentioned before, a stand-alone might be able to produce some good numbers on the dyno one day, but the day to day grind, month to month changes, ETC will likely need minute adjustments here and there, making it a career more then an enjoyment.

Last but not least, the only REAL benefit of standalone at this point would be able to create your own boost curves and ignition curves and fuel curves. For the majority of people here that is a lot of work that is really not needed but there will always be a small percentage that thinks this might be the way to go, and to them I say have fun! Ive already went down that road, it was a good learning experience.

Thanks bro, that's all I wanted to know. I know im in the right place with the procede. Thanks shiv, keep up the good work. Im glad to know you are gonna tune a single turbo bc that's the next step for me. Any idea on the size you are gonna run?

[Jonny550]

Retaliation thread....nice!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Jon335iFL

Retaliation thread....nice!

lol nope... just correcting misinformation. There's a lot of it floating around. But rarely is it so easy to disprove.

shiv

[BrianMN]

Who says 1/2 of a tenth?

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Hi guys,
A surprising comment was made on another forum about the "downsides" of running a 3 bar MAP sensor on a Procede:



For those who took a basic programming class, 10 bit means 1023 input possibilities. So with with a 3 bar maps sensor that covers 45psi of pressure (15 of atmos+30 of boost), you get 45/1023 or .044psi. Not "around 1/2psi" as suggested.

Cheers
shiv

If you factor in the differential, it's even less, NO?

30/1024 = 0.0293
45/1024 = 0.0439

Difference = 0.0146 psi??

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by kenneth

If you factor in the differential, it's even less, NO?

30/1024 = 0.0293
45/1024 = 0.0439

Difference = 0.0146 psi??

Yep. It's laughable to suggest that it's a cause for concern.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Who says 1/2 of a tenth?

someone who is trying to keep themselves from looking stupid after they have already looked stupid.

[Brey335i]

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Who says 1/2 of a tenth?

[JoeyFiasco]

i love this game

[techlogik]

But everyone at E90 post are Procede huggers and N54T are JB huggers and Bim boost are completely neutral....

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by techlogik

But everyone at E90 post are Procede huggers and N54T are JB huggers and Bim boost are completely neutral....

Bb being neutral. I call massive b/s

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by forza1976

Bb being neutral. I call massive b/s

BB neutral? LOL, sorry there's no such thing as a neutral car forum.