[Moggie]

I should have mentioned I'm completely stock other than Procede. Running v2.0.1 map, default torque settings.

[Moggie]

Excuse the flurry of posts, but I have a theory and wonder if one of the resident experts could validate my newbie thinking...

I presume that the normally open wastegate on the 335 must return to open under some kind of spring pressure. Could it be that certain cars have weaker springs so that when the turbos spool very quickly there is a delay in bleeding off the boost? Perhaps the higher the boost the slower the "return to open" is? Perhaps the procede is not anticipating the rate pressure build up and opening the wastegates a little late?

I'm loving my v2 but would like to understand/avoid these spikes.

Curious...

[e.n335]

Just catched up with this thread.

To keep it short: If this would not be fixed asap and I will not be able to run stable 11-13psi with V2 on my car ( without any overboost ) I will sell the unit. Word.

@Shiv: I don't like "nifty" 22psi . Such a bug is simply not acceptable. I hope you enjoy your 4 day's off, knowing about the problems of your customers. Unbelievable.

I personally did not see such spikes and I run 2.0.2beta but I don't like to check boost permanently using the boost gauge.

Time for me to call a spade a spade.

- Eugen

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

Do you have an aftermarket exhaust Scalbert? One could reason that improved flow downstream of an internal wastegate may render it insufficient at high boost levels and make those boost levels even higher. Surely Shiv knows this and has dealt with it has he has an aftermarket exhaust.

Nope, everything else is stock.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Moggie

FYI I'm seeing exactly the same thing with my recent v2 install. A spike, max of 18.1 (on my digital boost gauge) under certain conditions: at about 3000 rpm WOT in 3rd uphill. It settles down to about 14psi pretty quickly. Temperature was 60 degrees a few hundred feet above see level.

That is correct, it is only under a very specific condition and I normally have to try to make it occur. I would assumne if you slowly brought up the boost this does not happen?

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Moggie

I presume that the normally open wastegate on the 335 must return to open under some kind of spring pressure. Could it be that certain cars have weaker springs so that when the turbos spool very quickly there is a delay in bleeding off the boost? Perhaps the higher the boost the slower the "return to open" is? Perhaps the procede is not anticipating the rate pressure build up and opening the wastegates a little late?

This does have merit and was the reason why I was wondering if a slight adjustment to the wastegate rod might be beneficial. My car, and presumably yours, builds boost very quickly.

Since the wastegate opens off of vacuum, this vacuum must be bled off for the wastegate to return to its natural state of being open. Perhaps some vehicles just do not respond the same as you suggest. I may need to climb under the car and check out the wastegate connections further. I can see the rear turbo's connection and it is threaded so an adjustment can be made. Although I am sure this could be also be handled in software.

To add, I would see some small spikes even on V1 code. This was minimal to about 15 - 16 PSI; but it was there and limited most likely due to the slower build rate on V1 with the rear solenoid bypassed.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I personally did not see such spikes and I run 2.0.2beta. I don't like to check boost permanently using the boost gauge.

I would have never known this was occurring if it was not for me just playing around with the user curves and concurrently, monitoring boost. You may very well not see it with the lower values you are running. Plus, this only seems to occur when the car is fully warmed.

I guess the easiest way to try and replicate it would be to get the car warmer up fully; oil to 240 F (115 C for you ). Stop the car and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Then drive the car and find a slight uphill area, hold the car at 3000 revs in 3rd and floor it. You may need to try several times as it is not repeatable.

I suspect, most cars will not have this issue. But it seems there are 2 so far and maybe more that do experience this unknowingly.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by e.n335

Just catched up with this thread.

To keep it short: If this would not be fixed asap and I will not be able to run stable 11-13psi with V2 on my car ( without any overboost ) I will sell the unit. Word.

@Shiv: I don't like "nifty" 22psi . Such a bug is simply not acceptable. I hope you enjoy your 4 day's off, knowing about the problems of your customers. Unbelievable.

I personally did not see such spikes and I run 2.0.2beta but I don't like to check boost permanently using the boost gauge.

Time for me to call a spade a spade.

- Eugen

I am not sure that overboost is something that everyone is going to want... especially if its just an "automatic" overboost... considering that I only romp on my car when i get on exit ramps and onramps, about every 5 minutes or so... I would be overboosting every time I hit the gas hard...

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Moggie

I should have mentioned I'm completely stock other than Procede. Running v2.0.1 map, default torque settings.

Since you appear to be in California, how far are you from Vishnu? Obviously you could be 1 mile or 300+ miles.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I hope you enjoy your 4 day's off, knowing about the problems of your customers. Unbelievable.

In all fairness, Shiv did send me a map to test with earlier this week. Unfortunately it did not make a difference. But I have communicated this back to him along with sending log files. Unfortunately the logs did not show anything as the car was behaving correctly at the time; ironic...

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I would have never known this was occurring if it was not for me just playing around with the user curves and concurrently, monitoring boost. You may very well not see it with the lower values you are running. Plus, this only seems to occur when the car is fully warmed.

I guess the easiest way to try and replicate it would be to get the car warmer up fully; oil to 240 F (115 C for you ). Stop the car and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Then drive the car and find a slight uphill area, hold the car at 3000 revs in 3rd and floor it. You may need to try several times as it is not repeatable.

I suspect, most cars will not have this issue. But it seems there are 2 so far and maybe more that do experience this unknowingly.

Originally Posted by scalbert

In all fairness, Shiv did send me a map to test with earlier this week. Unfortunately it did not make a difference. But I have communicated this back to him along with sending log files. Unfortunately the logs did not show anything as the car was behaving correctly at the time; ironic...

Thank you for this information.

Apparently v2.0.1 is having some "issues". It is unbelievable for me that Vishnu does not release immediately a final v2.0.2 map, which is working stable. Shiv knows tuning the 335i and he knows his product. Such a map could exist at least since 2 weeks when Vishnu would be willing to spend the efforts. I like the PROcede V2, I like Vishnu as a company but when they are not willing to fix issues ( I am very confident they can ), the PROcede V2 is the wrong product for me. First quality, then performance.

- Eugen

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by e.n335

release immediately a final v2.0.2 map, which is working stable.

In the test I ran, 2.0.2 reacted the same way.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by scalbert

In the test I ran, 2.0.2 reacted the same way.

Some more R&D would help . I expect the PROcede is the "cashcow" of the company. I would take care about it.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by e.n335

I like Vishnu as a company but when they are not willing to fix issues ( I am very confident they can ), the PROcede V2 is the wrong product for me. First quality, then performance.

It is difficult to fix something when they do not know the cause. As far as I know, Shiv has been pounding the keyboard this Thanksgiving holiday in an attempt to resolve this.

Seriously, I am sure they are looking into it. But in discussions, I was the first to have witnessed this but now we have one more. I have to beleive there are others now as well.

Fortunately I am not driving much this week as it is a holiday here and we have been in my wife's car with my twin daughters.

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Fortunately I am not driving much this week as it is a holiday here and we have been in my wife's car with my twin daughters.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by Moggie

FYI I'm seeing exactly the same thing with my recent v2 install. A spike, max of 18.1 (on my digital boost gauge) under certain conditions: at about 3000 rpm WOT in 3rd uphill. It settles down to about 14psi pretty quickly. Temperature was 60 degrees a few hundred feet above see level.

Moggie,
I am curious if you have used the datalogging feature to capture boost numbers and compare them with what you're seeing on your external gauge.
The data I am capturing from yesterday's initial run with V2 installed shows a maximum of 15.0psi.

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Not yet, I need a USB extension cable or my new laptop to arrive with Bluetooth. But I get either working shortly as I am curious what the PROcede was indicating when the spikes occured.

Scalbert, just like with Moggie, I am curious if your gauge and the datalogging are showing the same psi spikes. My test runs yesterday never exceeded 15.0psi but I have seen posts from people who had the same data but their gauges were reading much higher.

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Since you appear to be in California, how far are you from Vishnu? Obviously you could be 1 mile or 300+ miles.

About 100 I believe.

[Tuned335i]

BTW, why does it seem like you guys the only ones concerned/talking about this? Is everyone else just lurking? There are a hundred or so people with V2s, and several hundred more with other piggybacks. Some of them must have boost gauges, even if they don't have datalogging capability.

Seems strange that there isn't more widespread concern or at least interest in this topic.

[DrDomer]

Still not feeling warm and fuzzy... Scalbert, can you reset you settings to 70% and see what the boost does? I have my Procede uninstalled to get service done. I was planning on getting Eugen's wireless connection to monitor things, but a little worried Eugen may be having second thoughts.

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by Tuned335i

Moggie,
I am curious if you have used the datalogging feature to capture boost numbers and compare them with what you're seeing on your external gauge.
The data I am capturing from yesterday's initial run with V2 installed shows a maximum of 15.0psi.

Actually I'm not using the datalogging right now -- my laptop battery died. I just watching my boost gauge. I have a fun drive worked out through the hills where I live and can reproduce the sharp spike in the same stretch of road each of the 3 times I've tried it. I'll try and get another laptop and log some data to share.

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by scalbert

This does have merit and was the reason why I was wondering if a slight adjustment to the wastegate rod might be beneficial. My car, and presumably yours, builds boost very quickly.

Since the wastegate opens off of vacuum, this vacuum must be bled off for the wastegate to return to its natural state of being open. Perhaps some vehicles just do not respond the same as you suggest. I may need to climb under the car and check out the wastegate connections further. I can see the rear turbo's connection and it is threaded so an adjustment can be made. Although I am sure this could be also be handled in software.

To add, I would see some small spikes even on V1 code. This was minimal to about 15 - 16 PSI; but it was there and limited most likely due to the slower build rate on V1 with the rear solenoid bypassed.

Interesting... so what would be achieved by adjusting the wastegate screw you cited? Would it cause the vacuum to bleed of quicker or is it just the mechanical linkage that actually opens the gate?