Rear toe arm woes

Cro · 06-09-2015, 07:59 AM

In bmw's infinite wisdom they used bolts and sleeves that react together over time. The result for me today is having to beat the life out of a nut and bolt, torch it and then cut it off needing a new arm.... All sparked from a simple wheel alignment!

Complete design flaw imo, pics to follow soon

Cro · 06-09-2015, 01:27 PM

Well what started out as a standard alignment unfolded into a saga that would rival lord of the rings. Went up to Kerrs tyres as I tend to normally for alignments and one of the rear toe arm bolts just sheared off, a nightmare most times and especially when its a special elliptical bolt that can only be had at bavarian.

Went to get one after work and spent the weekend wondering why the rest of the bolt wouldn't come out of the bush... hit it, heated it and repeat. I tried, had it up on a lift tried again, others tried and at this point it was giving Thors hammer a run for its money. I knew the heat was going to ruin the bush so went and bought another from GSF who had one in stock, happy days!

Roll up to Kerrs today to see if they could get the bolt out, swap the arm and do the planned alignment, which as at 10am today. Fast forward to 5.30pm and i'm finally leaving Kerrs with no alignment done. GSF gave me the wrong part, so had my brother head to ECP to pick up the correct part x2 and back to bavarian for another bolt set just incase the other side was the same.

It was such a pain in the ass they ended up needing exhaust system off and the bushes cut out, even on the ground with a sledge hammer the bolt still won't remove itself from the bush sleeve! The material the bolt is made from reacts with the metal the bush sleeve is made from and has as strong as welded itself together. I mean boys were lining up to smack this and get it out and it wasn't budging in the slightest, a few pics of the fun and i'd be tempted to send on to BMW to have a look, it was an absolute disgrace it ended up this bad. They recommend not greasing up the bolt inside the sleeve but the new ones were coated within an inch of their lives with copper grease so this never happens again

Massive props to @Neil Kirkpatrick and the guys up at KERR'S TYRES antrim for their patience, something that was clearly a design fault they tried plenty and waited about for me to get new parts in a hurry

GSF told me this is the only arm made for my car... I think not so much

djgandy · 06-10-2015, 03:35 AM

I know these can be hard to get off, but I'd put more money on previous alignments causing this.

I am fairly sure you shouldn't be copper greasing these bolts either. Torque figures are generally dry, so how can the garage torque the bolt correctly? A greased bolt is going to be way overtorqued, and will probably put you back in the situation you were in!

What brand and part number was the arm you bought? The arms are standard across the entire pretty much the entire e9x range (exception M3).

Cro · 06-10-2015, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgandy

I know these can be hard to get off, but I'd put more money on previous alignments causing this.

I am fairly sure you shouldn't be copper greasing these bolts either. Torque figures are generally dry, so how can the garage torque the bolt correctly? A greased bolt is going to be way overtorqued, and will probably put you back in the situation you were in!

What brand and part number was the arm you bought? The arms are standard across the entire pretty much the entire e9x range (exception M3).

I'll take an over torqued bolt that may shear but be easily removed over this ever again!

On the arm I'm not sure Gsf were adamant this was right, you couldn't even confuse it with another arm on the car. It was deffo for a different model

Aragorn30d · 06-10-2015, 05:22 AM

i think the GSF arms just a redesigned version of one of the main control arms, upper front one perhaps?

As for the grease, it would only effect the torque setting if it was on the bolt threads or tightening face. So long as it was only applied to the shaft of the bolt it wouldnt make any difference to the torque setting at all.

I've done the same thing previously myself, the front upper, outer bolt on Audis A4/A6 platform siezes up in a similar manner, and i always slather the bolts in CV grease before reinstalling them.

06-09-2015, 07:59 AM	#1
Cro Private First Class 17 Rep 105 Posts Drives: 335d Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: N.Ireland iTrader: (0)	Rear toe arm woes In bmw's infinite wisdom they used bolts and sleeves that react together over time. The result for me today is having to beat the life out of a nut and bolt, torch it and then cut it off needing a new arm.... All sparked from a simple wheel alignment! Complete design flaw imo, pics to follow soon
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06-09-2015, 01:27 PM	#2
Cro Private First Class 17 Rep 105 Posts Drives: 335d Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: N.Ireland iTrader: (0)	Well what started out as a standard alignment unfolded into a saga that would rival lord of the rings. Went up to Kerrs tyres as I tend to normally for alignments and one of the rear toe arm bolts just sheared off, a nightmare most times and especially when its a special elliptical bolt that can only be had at bavarian. Went to get one after work and spent the weekend wondering why the rest of the bolt wouldn't come out of the bush... hit it, heated it and repeat. I tried, had it up on a lift tried again, others tried and at this point it was giving Thors hammer a run for its money. I knew the heat was going to ruin the bush so went and bought another from GSF who had one in stock, happy days! Roll up to Kerrs today to see if they could get the bolt out, swap the arm and do the planned alignment, which as at 10am today. Fast forward to 5.30pm and i'm finally leaving Kerrs with no alignment done. GSF gave me the wrong part, so had my brother head to ECP to pick up the correct part x2 and back to bavarian for another bolt set just incase the other side was the same. It was such a pain in the ass they ended up needing exhaust system off and the bushes cut out, even on the ground with a sledge hammer the bolt still won't remove itself from the bush sleeve! The material the bolt is made from reacts with the metal the bush sleeve is made from and has as strong as welded itself together. I mean boys were lining up to smack this and get it out and it wasn't budging in the slightest, a few pics of the fun and i'd be tempted to send on to BMW to have a look, it was an absolute disgrace it ended up this bad. They recommend not greasing up the bolt inside the sleeve but the new ones were coated within an inch of their lives with copper grease so this never happens again Massive props to @Neil Kirkpatrick and the guys up at KERR'S TYRES antrim for their patience, something that was clearly a design fault they tried plenty and waited about for me to get new parts in a hurry GSF told me this is the only arm made for my car... I think not so much
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06-10-2015, 03:35 AM	#3
djgandy Colonel 146 Rep 2,337 Posts Drives: E93 M3 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: London iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 M3 [0.00]	I know these can be hard to get off, but I'd put more money on previous alignments causing this. I am fairly sure you shouldn't be copper greasing these bolts either. Torque figures are generally dry, so how can the garage torque the bolt correctly? A greased bolt is going to be way overtorqued, and will probably put you back in the situation you were in! What brand and part number was the arm you bought? The arms are standard across the entire pretty much the entire e9x range (exception M3).
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06-10-2015, 05:22 AM	#5
Aragorn30d Lieutenant Colonel 175 Rep 1,596 Posts Drives: E90 330d Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Fife iTrader: (0)	i think the GSF arms just a redesigned version of one of the main control arms, upper front one perhaps? As for the grease, it would only effect the torque setting if it was on the bolt threads or tightening face. So long as it was only applied to the shaft of the bolt it wouldnt make any difference to the torque setting at all. I've done the same thing previously myself, the front upper, outer bolt on Audis A4/A6 platform siezes up in a similar manner, and i always slather the bolts in CV grease before reinstalling them.
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