E92 335i Quaife (LSD) Differential Group Buy

aznevoviii · 01-22-2007, 06:02 PM

1. Kujo
2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet)
3. Specialque
4. Stressdoc
5. Patric 335
6. bmwmike
7. Orb
8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet)
9. Ryan(E92)
10. Aznevoviii
11.
12
13.
14.
15.

turbocoins · 01-22-2007, 06:32 PM

Count me in for the Dif!

RichP · 01-22-2007, 06:41 PM

1. Kujo
2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet)
3. Specialque
4. Stressdoc
5. Patric 335
6. bmwmike
7. Orb
8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet)
9. Ryan(E92)
10. Aznevoviii
11. Turbocoins
12
13.
14.
15.

****
The 335 diff is the same gear "size" as other 6cylinder BMWs; and same housing as other E90s.

The M-Differential is mechanical, not electronic whatsoever (in its E46 M3 incarnation, at least)

grkm3 · 01-22-2007, 06:51 PM

Rich have you actually opened up a diff and looked at the gear sets?The euro e36 M3 came with the 210 gears and so did the e46 M3 and they are inline 6's

So didnt alot of reg 6 series ect...

From my own experience with 188mm gears is that there is no way in hell that they can take all that torque that the 335 makes.

I have blown 3 sets 188mm pinion gears in My e36 USA spec M3 and know for sure that those gears wont take the abuse of the 335s power.

If in fact the car comes with 210mm gears you can just swap in a LSD from a e46 M3 or wait for the next M3 to comes out.

I'm not talking about the housing,Im talking about the actual LSD unit.BMW dosnt go crazzy with lots of different sizes in the diffs.

bmwmike · 01-22-2007, 07:20 PM

Can someone please confirm what diff the 335 uses? Visually I could only count 4 bolts on the lower half since I could not see the top of the diff.

I checked with my local aftermarket installer in Canada and he quoted me 3 hours to take off and put back on the car and 5 hours bench time to swap out the diffs for a total of 8 billable hours ($75x8=$600 labour). He said a new 210mm LSD diff from BMW is about $1,000 cdn.

Orb · 01-22-2007, 10:20 PM

If you have blown 3 sets of gears then there should be a common point of failure and I am having some trouble with this as you have not made this clear. The differntal that are built these days are very well designed and it is not a limiting factor.

In any case, if the car uses an open differntal or LSD the main gearing will still see the same load so this is a very dead end topic. The Quaife should stay hocked up better than any other type of LSD and thus see less shock loads due wheel skip at speed. The gearing is what it is and is well over built in any case.

The problem in using a M3 LSD is that it has to be an engineered fit. The part in question will be the LSD housing and the common interfaces they share for the carrier bearing, drive shaft interface and general clearance in the housing. It will not be the same which is what matters. At the end of the day you need a engineer to go thru all the details.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grkm3

Rich have you actually opened up a diff and looked at the gear sets?The euro e36 M3 came with the 210 gears and so did the e46 M3 and they are inline 6's

So didnt alot of reg 6 series ect...

From my own experience with 188mm gears is that there is no way in hell that they can take all that torque that the 335 makes.

I have blown 3 sets 188mm pinion gears in My e36 USA spec M3 and know for sure that those gears wont take the abuse of the 335s power.

If in fact the car comes with 210mm gears you can just swap in a LSD from a e46 M3 or wait for the next M3 to comes out.

I'm not talking about the housing,Im talking about the actual LSD unit.BMW dosnt go crazzy with lots of different sizes in the diffs.

grkm3 · 01-22-2007, 10:48 PM

people have blown plenty of 188mm gears in the US e36 M3,The Euro version of our car comes with 210mm gears(ring and pinion I think there called)

That is the reason that I think BMW will use the stronger gears in the 335,because of the massive torque the car has.

the input and out put shafts can be swaped out.My car came with a 6 bolt input shaft and we swited it to a 4 bolt from an automatic M3 and worked fine.

the LSD in the M3 is a perfect unit if some one wants to be the ginny pig and see if the 335 uses the same size.

There isnt much rocket science into putting a LSD in.A custom 40% lock up would be perfect for the 335.

Or better yet the M unit from the e46...If that wont fit just wait to see the part number on the e90 rear end and find out what size they use

daisy16905 · 01-23-2007, 12:51 AM

Add me to the list for the LSD.

DanHarman · 01-23-2007, 02:41 AM

I'm in.

1. Kujo
2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet)
3. Specialque
4. Stressdoc
5. Patric 335
6. bmwmike
7. Orb
8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet)
9. Ryan(E92)
10. Aznevoviii
11. Turbocoins
12. daisy16905
13. DanHarman
14.
15.

timn · 01-23-2007, 03:03 AM

#14, o yea!

1. Kujo
2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet)
3. Specialque
4. Stressdoc
5. Patric 335
6. bmwmike
7. Orb
8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet)
9. Ryan(E92)
10. Aznevoviii
11. Turbocoins
12. daisy16905
13. DanHarman
14. Timn
15.

kujo · 01-23-2007, 07:48 AM

Dan,

Can one of your techs do the Diff install ?
Maybe a GB price on the install of all the So Cal owners ?

Thanks,
Kurt

RichP · 01-23-2007, 08:45 AM

I have not personally seen the internal set. I can say, overall, it is a SMALL differential (smaller than E36M3 and E46M3) Even if it had the larger gearset (which we cant look up p/n because BMW doesnt sell the individual parts for them) it is debateable that the LSD from another BMW would fit in there properly.

Ive changed output and input flanges on differentials before; it is alot more involved than that to swap around internals.

Cornhusker · 01-23-2007, 05:10 PM

You guys say the gears will be the same. But I've heard the AT and MT have different gears, I have a AT. Will I get the MT gears then?

Also, my uncle was a mechanic for 25 years and he put LSD's in 4x4 by the hundreds, I'm assuming he could handle this pretty easy?

kujo · 01-24-2007, 12:30 AM

Someone fill that 15th spot and Orb, get on thier arse !!!!!!

I want an LSD NOW !!!!!!!!!

Robert Venable · 01-24-2007, 02:27 AM

Here is some info for you guys.

Gearing for the 325s was 3.23(Manual) and 3.73(auto). Gearing for the 330s was 3.15(Manual) and 3.64(auto). I believe you can get the gear ratio for the 335 and 328 off of the BMW's website under specs. E60s use a 188k on it's 6 cyl models, and there gear ratio's range from 2.35-4.10.

Not sure if the ring and pinion will interchange between a 188L and K, Not sure if a 188L and K can be simply swapped out. I would not think they would, due to the fact that the E70 X5 manual states that the V-8's 188L diff is 7.5mm longer than the 188k.

There is nothing that I am able to find that list any changes in the 335i driveline. But, the training manual for the new E70 X5 list the Diffs as being 188k for the 6 cylinder, or the a 188L for the V-8. The Diff in the E90's training manual (released before the release of the 328 and 335) also calls it's diff a 188L, and the description of both is identical. BTW: The L stands for low friction bearings instead of tapered roller bearings.

IMO, since BMW Feels that the 188L is strong enough to use in a MUCH heavier,V-8 powered 4wd, I believe that they also think that the 188L will hold up in the 335.

I also beleive that the reason the E46 M3 used a 210 was because they knew that this car was more of a primary race car, vs the 335 being primarily used for much lighter duties. Or Maybe they just thought it was more efficent to build a single M differential, so they designed it to handle the power of the future (at the time) E60 M5 (I reaize that the E60 has a 215mm ring gear but I'm thinking that the limited slip is probaly the same) and just simply engineered the much less powerful E46 M3 to have the same diff to reduce any added cost of making a lighter duty unit.

///Matt · 01-24-2007, 02:30 AM

Welcome, Robert! =) Glad to have another Tech on board!

kujo · 01-24-2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornhusker

You guys say the gears will be the same. But I've heard the AT and MT have different gears, I have a AT. Will I get the MT gears then?

Also, my uncle was a mechanic for 25 years and he put LSD's in 4x4 by the hundreds, I'm assuming he could handle this pretty easy?

The AT gears are a 3.46, the MT is a 3.08.
The LSD unit will use your current gear ratio, as it just replaces your open diff that is on the car now.

Now someone sack up and make yourself #15 !!!!

Take the ball and run with it Orb !!!

RichP · 01-24-2007, 08:38 AM

I concur..

Robert, good to see another Tech on here (Im not a tech, but have some proxy from those I know in the "BMW industry")

M3 probably uses the larger gearset because, i would think, those gears see even more stress than those would on an V8 with an open diff. M-diff lock can send ALL the power to one wheel, that may create a lot more stress and shock for the gearset.

Anway, back on topic, we need more people. Come on guys, you will be crying for this thing once we get them and you cant!

ac2 · 01-24-2007, 04:07 PM

#15
1. Kujo
2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet)
3. Specialque
4. Stressdoc
5. Patric 335
6. bmwmike
7. Orb
8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet)
9. Ryan(E92)
10. Aznevoviii
11. Turbocoins
12. daisy16905
13. DanHarman
14. Timn
15. Ac2

magmd · 01-24-2007, 06:39 PM

Again....sorry about the repost.

I scanned the thread and did not see a definitive answer as to whether this will for sure work on E90 330i.

I would be interested, if assured that it will work for my vehicle.

And lastly....what kind of timeline are we talking about here?? I am not too familiar with development of this mod...since it is just getting started, will it take weeks? 1-3 months, 6-8 months, etc.....

Orb · 01-24-2007, 09:07 PM

1. Kujo
2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet)
3. Specialque
4. Stressdoc
5. Patric 335
6. bmwmike
7. Orb
8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet)
9. Ryan(E92)
10. Aznevoviii
11. Turbocoins
12. daisy16905
13. DanHarman
14. Timn
15. Ac2
16. magmd (tentatively on specfication being meet)
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.

Orb · 01-24-2007, 10:45 PM

It looks like we have enough people interested in this product to go ahead with the next phase. I have updated the specification to reflect everyone interest based on that the listed models share the same differntal housing. The scope of work is a quick overview on how the process will work. Once everyone has committed with the vendor then I would expect the delivery time to be from 5-10 weeks (it impossible to guess at this stage). You will need to be patient and I suspect a few will pull out from the list so I hope other will continue adding themselves.

Quaife (LSD) Specification:

1. Drop in replacement for E90 325i/330i, E90 335i and E92 335i for both manual and automatic transmissions.
2. Biasing parameter to be set by Quaife.

Scope of Work:

1. Accept the groups buy of 15+ units and look into the market for future sales.
2. Submit a quotation, specification/compatibility document and delivery date which will be submitted to everyone who is on the list.
3. The finical part will be handled by Quaife and will be determined shortly. They will most likely want a deposit and credit card which is industry standard.
4. Investigate what is required to produce the product. This mean they might have to buy a new stock differntal assembly from BMW and look into all compatibilities between the models. They probably have excellent network for this type of information already.
5. Design the LSD gear housing and interfaces. This will be the most amount of work. Specify the LSD gear sets and biasing. It is likely they have a gear set designed that meet the specification so this may not be a custom component or there may be slight variant of an existing design.

I will be posting an update by January 31, 2007.

01-22-2007, 06:02 PM	#45
aznevoviii Bimmer n00b 66 Rep 649 Posts Drives: none Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Maryland iTrader: (3)	1. Kujo 2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet) 3. Specialque 4. Stressdoc 5. Patric 335 6. bmwmike 7. Orb 8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet) 9. Ryan(E92) 10. Aznevoviii 11. 12 13. 14. 15.
	Appreciate 0

01-22-2007, 06:32 PM	#46
turbocoins Captain 18 Rep 749 Posts Drives: '08 Z06, '07 MKZ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Warm Climate iTrader: (0)	Count me in for the Dif!
	Appreciate 0

01-22-2007, 06:41 PM	#47
RichP Major 144 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CT iTrader: (4)	1. Kujo 2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet) 3. Specialque 4. Stressdoc 5. Patric 335 6. bmwmike 7. Orb 8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet) 9. Ryan(E92) 10. Aznevoviii 11. Turbocoins 12 13. 14. 15. **** The 335 diff is the same gear "size" as other 6cylinder BMWs; and same housing as other E90s. The M-Differential is mechanical, not electronic whatsoever (in its E46 M3 incarnation, at least)
	Appreciate 0

01-22-2007, 06:51 PM	#48
grkm3 Lieutenant 21 Rep 455 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Rich have you actually opened up a diff and looked at the gear sets?The euro e36 M3 came with the 210 gears and so did the e46 M3 and they are inline 6's So didnt alot of reg 6 series ect... From my own experience with 188mm gears is that there is no way in hell that they can take all that torque that the 335 makes. I have blown 3 sets 188mm pinion gears in My e36 USA spec M3 and know for sure that those gears wont take the abuse of the 335s power. If in fact the car comes with 210mm gears you can just swap in a LSD from a e46 M3 or wait for the next M3 to comes out. I'm not talking about the housing,Im talking about the actual LSD unit.BMW dosnt go crazzy with lots of different sizes in the diffs.
	Appreciate 0

01-22-2007, 07:20 PM	#49
bmwmike Lieutenant 28 Rep 542 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe - SOLD Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada iTrader: (1)	Can someone please confirm what diff the 335 uses? Visually I could only count 4 bolts on the lower half since I could not see the top of the diff. I checked with my local aftermarket installer in Canada and he quoted me 3 hours to take off and put back on the car and 5 hours bench time to swap out the diffs for a total of 8 billable hours ($75x8=$600 labour). He said a new 210mm LSD diff from BMW is about $1,000 cdn.
	Appreciate 0

01-22-2007, 10:48 PM	#51
grkm3 Lieutenant 21 Rep 455 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	people have blown plenty of 188mm gears in the US e36 M3,The Euro version of our car comes with 210mm gears(ring and pinion I think there called) That is the reason that I think BMW will use the stronger gears in the 335,because of the massive torque the car has. the input and out put shafts can be swaped out.My car came with a 6 bolt input shaft and we swited it to a 4 bolt from an automatic M3 and worked fine. the LSD in the M3 is a perfect unit if some one wants to be the ginny pig and see if the 335 uses the same size. There isnt much rocket science into putting a LSD in.A custom 40% lock up would be perfect for the 335. Or better yet the M unit from the e46...If that wont fit just wait to see the part number on the e90 rear end and find out what size they use
	Appreciate 0

01-23-2007, 12:51 AM	#52
daisy16905 Second Lieutenant 10 Rep 246 Posts Drives: 2014 M235i Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Olympia, WA iTrader: (1)	Add me to the list for the LSD. __________________ M235i (Black) Auto, JB 4 (Stage 2 / Map 7 with EWG & FF wires) ER DP, resonator delete, running E35, BMW Performance LSD, Hankook Ventus R-S3's (255/35/18 & 235/40/18) ATE Super Blue Racing brake fluid, 35% tint, black grills!
	Appreciate 0

01-23-2007, 02:41 AM	#53
DanHarman Private 10 Rep 58 Posts Drives: 335i Black Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (0)	I'm in. 1. Kujo 2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet) 3. Specialque 4. Stressdoc 5. Patric 335 6. bmwmike 7. Orb 8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet) 9. Ryan(E92) 10. Aznevoviii 11. Turbocoins 12. daisy16905 13. DanHarman 14. 15.
	Appreciate 0

01-23-2007, 03:03 AM	#54
timn First Lieutenant 51 Rep 321 Posts Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Palo Alto, Ca iTrader: (4)	#14, o yea! 1. Kujo 2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet) 3. Specialque 4. Stressdoc 5. Patric 335 6. bmwmike 7. Orb 8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet) 9. Ryan(E92) 10. Aznevoviii 11. Turbocoins 12. daisy16905 13. DanHarman 14. Timn 15.
	Appreciate 0

01-23-2007, 07:48 AM	#55
kujo Major 142 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: May 2006 Location: LA, CA USA iTrader: (1)	Dan, Can one of your techs do the Diff install ? Maybe a GB price on the install of all the So Cal owners ? Thanks, Kurt
	Appreciate 0

01-23-2007, 08:45 AM	#56
RichP Major 144 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CT iTrader: (4)	I have not personally seen the internal set. I can say, overall, it is a SMALL differential (smaller than E36M3 and E46M3) Even if it had the larger gearset (which we cant look up p/n because BMW doesnt sell the individual parts for them) it is debateable that the LSD from another BMW would fit in there properly. Ive changed output and input flanges on differentials before; it is alot more involved than that to swap around internals.
	Appreciate 0

01-23-2007, 05:10 PM	#57
Cornhusker Lieutenant 46 Rep 403 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Nebraska iTrader: (1)	You guys say the gears will be the same. But I've heard the AT and MT have different gears, I have a AT. Will I get the MT gears then? Also, my uncle was a mechanic for 25 years and he put LSD's in 4x4 by the hundreds, I'm assuming he could handle this pretty easy?
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 12:30 AM	#58
kujo Major 142 Rep 1,153 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: May 2006 Location: LA, CA USA iTrader: (1)	Someone fill that 15th spot and Orb, get on thier arse !!!!!! I want an LSD NOW !!!!!!!!!
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 02:27 AM	#59
Robert Venable Certified BMW Tech 0 Rep 22 Posts Drives: 2007 Montego Blue 335i Sedan Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Baton Rouge, LA iTrader: (0)	Here is some info for you guys. Gearing for the 325s was 3.23(Manual) and 3.73(auto). Gearing for the 330s was 3.15(Manual) and 3.64(auto). I believe you can get the gear ratio for the 335 and 328 off of the BMW's website under specs. E60s use a 188k on it's 6 cyl models, and there gear ratio's range from 2.35-4.10. Not sure if the ring and pinion will interchange between a 188L and K, Not sure if a 188L and K can be simply swapped out. I would not think they would, due to the fact that the E70 X5 manual states that the V-8's 188L diff is 7.5mm longer than the 188k. There is nothing that I am able to find that list any changes in the 335i driveline. But, the training manual for the new E70 X5 list the Diffs as being 188k for the 6 cylinder, or the a 188L for the V-8. The Diff in the E90's training manual (released before the release of the 328 and 335) also calls it's diff a 188L, and the description of both is identical. BTW: The L stands for low friction bearings instead of tapered roller bearings. IMO, since BMW Feels that the 188L is strong enough to use in a MUCH heavier,V-8 powered 4wd, I believe that they also think that the 188L will hold up in the 335. I also beleive that the reason the E46 M3 used a 210 was because they knew that this car was more of a primary race car, vs the 335 being primarily used for much lighter duties. Or Maybe they just thought it was more efficent to build a single M differential, so they designed it to handle the power of the future (at the time) E60 M5 (I reaize that the E60 has a 215mm ring gear but I'm thinking that the limited slip is probaly the same) and just simply engineered the much less powerful E46 M3 to have the same diff to reduce any added cost of making a lighter duty unit.
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 02:30 AM	#60
///Matt United States Marine 316 Rep 2,748 Posts Drives: 2007 Dodge Ram 1500 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (8) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	Welcome, Robert! =) Glad to have another Tech on board!
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 08:38 AM	#62
RichP Major 144 Rep 1,184 Posts Drives: F80 Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: CT iTrader: (4)	I concur.. Robert, good to see another Tech on here (Im not a tech, but have some proxy from those I know in the "BMW industry") M3 probably uses the larger gearset because, i would think, those gears see even more stress than those would on an V8 with an open diff. M-diff lock can send ALL the power to one wheel, that may create a lot more stress and shock for the gearset. Anway, back on topic, we need more people. Come on guys, you will be crying for this thing once we get them and you cant!
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 04:07 PM	#63
ac2 Private 5 Rep 85 Posts Drives: E92 Join Date: May 2006 Location: N.E. iTrader: (1)	#15 1. Kujo 2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet) 3. Specialque 4. Stressdoc 5. Patric 335 6. bmwmike 7. Orb 8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet) 9. Ryan(E92) 10. Aznevoviii 11. Turbocoins 12. daisy16905 13. DanHarman 14. Timn 15. Ac2
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 06:39 PM	#64
magmd Major General 160 Rep 5,271 Posts Drives: '06 330i Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Torrance, CA iTrader: (13) Garage List 2006 330i [0.00]	Again....sorry about the repost. I scanned the thread and did not see a definitive answer as to whether this will for sure work on E90 330i. I would be interested, if assured that it will work for my vehicle. And lastly....what kind of timeline are we talking about here?? I am not too familiar with development of this mod...since it is just getting started, will it take weeks? 1-3 months, 6-8 months, etc..... __________________ 2006 330i \| Black Sapphire Metallic \| Step Auto \| Navi with iDr \| Sports Pkg \|OEM Rear Spoiler \| 3M CS35 Tint \| H&R Sport Springs \| Koni Yellows \| Advan RS Racing Hypersilver: 19x9 et22 19x10 et20
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 09:07 PM	#65
Orb Lieutenant Colonel 111 Rep 1,764 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	1. Kujo 2. RichP (tentatively on specfication being meet) 3. Specialque 4. Stressdoc 5. Patric 335 6. bmwmike 7. Orb 8. sdiver68 (tentatively on specfication being meet) 9. Ryan(E92) 10. Aznevoviii 11. Turbocoins 12. daisy16905 13. DanHarman 14. Timn 15. Ac2 16. magmd (tentatively on specfication being meet) 17. 18. 19. 20. 21. 22. 23. 24. 25.
	Appreciate 0

01-24-2007, 10:45 PM	#66
Orb Lieutenant Colonel 111 Rep 1,764 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	It looks like we have enough people interested in this product to go ahead with the next phase. I have updated the specification to reflect everyone interest based on that the listed models share the same differntal housing. The scope of work is a quick overview on how the process will work. Once everyone has committed with the vendor then I would expect the delivery time to be from 5-10 weeks (it impossible to guess at this stage). You will need to be patient and I suspect a few will pull out from the list so I hope other will continue adding themselves. Quaife (LSD) Specification: 1. Drop in replacement for E90 325i/330i, E90 335i and E92 335i for both manual and automatic transmissions. 2. Biasing parameter to be set by Quaife. Scope of Work: 1. Accept the groups buy of 15+ units and look into the market for future sales. 2. Submit a quotation, specification/compatibility document and delivery date which will be submitted to everyone who is on the list. 3. The finical part will be handled by Quaife and will be determined shortly. They will most likely want a deposit and credit card which is industry standard. 4. Investigate what is required to produce the product. This mean they might have to buy a new stock differntal assembly from BMW and look into all compatibilities between the models. They probably have excellent network for this type of information already. 5. Design the LSD gear housing and interfaces. This will be the most amount of work. Specify the LSD gear sets and biasing. It is likely they have a gear set designed that meet the specification so this may not be a custom component or there may be slight variant of an existing design. I will be posting an update by January 31, 2007.
	Appreciate 0