[mattchubb1]

Hiya,

So my wifes been experiencing hesitation from the car when accelerating... and to be honest i've struggled to actually experience it when I'm driving... but tonight I seem to have actually witnessed it...

I thought it may have been something to do with the auto box... but this was literally with the car sat still and I was pressing the accelerator down...

So when I accelerate gently its fine... but it looks as though my wife wants to accelerate faster if i push down quickly on the accelerator.. you can see the revs drop... stutter before coming to life...its a 57 plate 330i... with 165k on the clock...

Anyone else experienced this? or ideas for fixing?

P.s Please let me know if this link doesnt work

[Jat]

Mate, I occasionally get hesitation when pulling out of junction or turning etc, and its when you apply the power. Never managed to recreate it on demand, but is feels like DSC is killing all the power.

Having watched your video, I tried what you did. Sat in N, and gave it revs. If I do so moderately, it seems ok. If I quickly plant my foot and just keep it there, the revs drop to around 600-800 and it sits there hesitating without revving any higher. To get it rev, I have to release the throttle and then reapply.

I am wondering if this might be a symptom of the coil packs being on the blink (feels a bit like misfire), or if it could be air mass issues.

[Jat]

More detailed info on what sounds similar here:

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...ottle-t148266/

[mattchubb1]

Originally Posted by Jat

More detailed info on what sounds similar here:

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...ottle-t148266/

Hey thanks for the link!

Sounds exactly like whats happening with mine.... I need to pop to my local indy at some point... might try and pop over on friday and show them whats happening and take a copy of that link that you sent me... seems like a theres 2 or 3 things there that could be done to sort this out

[mattchubb1]

Well..... Finally went in today....

No fault codes anywhere.... Good for me... But the independent guy was like "damn thought it might come up with something" so showed him the link from the bimmerforum... He read through it and it all made sense to him.... But he said "let's start with the basics"

- when were the plugs last changed... 85k... And it's now on 166k.... So changed those
- it was sluggish starting so he checked the battery... The battery was only a 70amp one which he said was too low... So changed that
- software update performed....

And so far so good! He said next step would be cvt? Change... But he was happy with it... And so far I haven't been able to replicate the problem... Which I was able to do quite easily previously... So fingers crossed!

[Rustymage]

Any updates on this?

It looks very similar to the issue I have

Anthony

[mattchubb1]

Originally Posted by Rustymage

Any updates on this?

It looks very similar to the issue I have

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

Touch wood the changes that were done have completely solved this for me. So basically it was a software update, new plugs, and new battery... I was sceptical that this would work... but all has been fine since then.

Have you tried any of these at all as they are possibly the cheaper things to try before getting into the more expensive items

Matt

[Rustymage]

Originally Posted by mattchubb1

Hi Anthony,

Touch wood the changes that were done have completely solved this for me. So basically it was a software update, new plugs, and new battery... I was sceptical that this would work... but all has been fine since then.

Have you tried any of these at all as they are possibly the cheaper things to try before getting into the more expensive items

Matt

Thanks for the reply!

I haven't tried anything yet. I have some new solenoids and check valves on order. Was thinking about plugs based on your experience, however I will reserve the final decision until I go home and check when they were last done. If over 3 years old I'll try them

Solenoids and check valves cost £197 - Solenoids are apparently a common cause of hesitation. Ref: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post20319791

Anthony

Edit: New battery because of poor starts and OBD2 diagnostic complaints

[Rustymage]

Matt,

Can you remember if your wife noticed any hesitation anywhere else in the rev range, or was it just at idle when pulling way.

Please say it was the latter!!!

Thanks

[Rustymage]

I've just tried planting my foot in park and it does exactly as shown in the video.

New plugs were only done 18k ago (2years). Although who really knows if they were done.

New plugs on order!

I'll update.

[BMW-330i]

I experienced a similar intermittent power loss and after extensive research including replacing coils, spark plugs I found BMW's tech notification (25742810-PUMA) which describes a necessary software upgrade, and PUMA reconfiguration procedure. I replaced my VVT motor at a cost of £130 from www.worldcarparts.co.uk.

REF: 25742810 (PUMA)
Release date (dd/mm/yy)
30/09/09
Status
Approved
Organization
GB, CAR
Vehicles affected
E series
E60 E61 E63 E64 E90
E91 E92
Engine
N52 N52BO0 N52K
Body

Production period (from/to) (dd/mm/yy)
/
Comment on production period

Feedback (all cases relating to measure up to) (dd/mm/yy)

Complaint
An intermittent hesitation or flat spot when accelerating is felt briefly under different driving conditions
such as:
Pulling away from stationary
After a coasting phase
When overtaking

This complaint appears over a period of time and gets progressively worse.
Cause
Combination of adaptive values and an early I-Stage or sluggish VVT motor

No fault codes are recorded in the DME (or EGS)
Measure
After confirming the customer complaint and under which driving condition the problem is most obvious,
carry out the following work in the specific order:

Step 1
1. Program the vehicle with ISTA/P 2.35.1 or higher

2. Clear the DME adaptive values using the diagnosis service function.
3. Switch on the ignition and leave for at least 30 seconds to allow the DK unit adaptation to be carried
out - this can usually be heard.
4. Start the engine and allow to idle up to an engine temperature of at least 70°C with no consumers
switched on
5. With ISTA/D or the GT1 learn the VVT end stops
6. Allow the engine to idle for 3 minutes with the vehicle stationary, the transmission in Park and the
steering centred (NO consumers switched on).
7. Then with the engine at idle and the car stationary, select Drive, switch on the Air Conditioning and
then turn the steering to full left lock and then to full right lock twice in succession.
8. Now drive the vehicle forwards and backwards approximately 5 metres to permit transmission
adaptation.
9. Then with the car on a road test drive at a steady 50 - 65 km/h for at least 10 minutes using M2 or
M3; then accelerate moderately in 2nd or 3rd gear up to 4000 rpm and decelerate by letting the car roll
until reaching engine idle speed; then stop and let engine run at idle speed for 5 minutes, do this two or
three times
10. Check the DME statuses to ensure the additive and multiplicative values are OK.
11. Run the engine at idling speed for at least 5 minutes again

Now re-evaluate the car for the customer complaint, if the hesitation is no longer present no further
action is required.

If the hesitation is still present then carry out step 2

Step 2
Replace the VVT motor

[Rustymage]

Originally Posted by BMW-330i

I experienced a similar intermittent power loss and after extensive research including replacing coils, spark plugs I found BMW's tech notification (25742810-PUMA) which describes a necessary software upgrade, and PUMA reconfiguration procedure. I replaced my VVT motor at a cost of £130 from www.worldcarparts.co.uk.

Your issue, was it similar to that shown in the video?

I've seen that PUMA and hoped I wouldn't need to go that route.

[BMW-330i]

Originally Posted by Rustymage

Your issue, was it similar to that shown in the video?

I've seen that PUMA and hoped I wouldn't need to go that route.

It's difficult to say whether my car was like your video, I can't remember there being a revving issue but tbh I can't recall revving the motor while stationary. But the "stutter before coming to life" description sounds very familiar.

My car had done 87k, so at 165k I'd check to see when your coils and plugs were last changed. If you can't find any info I'd myself change these as part of general maintenance. They aren't hugely expensive especially if you purchase them via Euro Car Parts when they have a 20/30% flash sale and will help keep your engine running at peak performance.

Without knowing that your coils and plugs are error free you could be spending money on non-maintenance components, which is a costly excerise if you don't have error codes to base your upgrades on.

[Rustymage]

Originally Posted by BMW-330i

It's difficult to say whether my car was like your video, I can't remember there being a revving issue but tbh I can't recall revving the motor while stationary. But the "stutter before coming to life" description sounds very familiar.

[snip]

Without knowing that your coils and plugs are error free you could be spending money on non-maintenance components, which is a costly excerise if you don't have error codes to base your upgrades on.

That's why I've decided to take it to a specialist who knows the car, in the hope they can find the issue. It needs sorting so money needs to be spent, so I'd rather spend it on a proper diagnostic then changing parts. I was going to change parts but that's most likely a waste of my money.

You make good points. My car is a 2006 with only 72kmiles on it.

I'll keep the thread updated for future.

Thanks

[Rustymage]

So car was in the garage today.

They couldn't find any faults (as they were told and expected). They took it for a spin and couldn't get it to hesitate but noticed a flat spot mid range. They attributed this to the gearbox as they've seen this before.

They ran diagnostics on the engine and a smooth running test and couldn't find any issues, they say it's a sweet engine.

They therefore said they were reluctant to change any parts but reset the DME & gearbox adaptations. The guy said the flat spot was gone after this.

His suggestion was to trial this and if it returns they'd look at an engine and gearbox software update (currently running factory software from production). He said he didn't do this straight away as it may not help and could be a waste of money.

Overall happy with service and the car appears to be a little more spritely and willing. I'll update in a few weeks if any hesitation returns.

Additionally he reset my light sensor as my auto lights were always on, however it still doesn't work as expected so it looks like a faulty sensor.

Overall 1 hours labour & £54.

[Robin330i]

Thanks for the update, I have the same issue and I have had to live with it, I have done my own investigation, I am an engine development engineer and even with 11 yrs experience in my role I still can't find out what the issue is. I tend to drive the car in such a way to not allow the car to have the hesitation.

[Rustymage]

Originally Posted by Robin330i

Thanks for the update, I have the same issue and I have had to live with it, I have done my own investigation, I am an engine development engineer and even with 11 yrs experience in my role I still can't find out what the issue is. I tend to drive the car in such a way to not allow the car to have the hesitation.

The specialist said he thought it may be the gearbox and engine adaptations causing the issue. He seemed to base this off the fact the engine did not look to be the problem, even after all the tests he did with it.

Perhaps once I've updated the thread on a few weeks you might look into this if it's solved my issue..?

Anthony

[Robin330i]

I have my suspicions of it being a torque converter issue but to investigate it would cost a fair few quid, I did start looking into updating the gearbox software but never got much further other than to speak to a colleague of mine who works in the gearbox calibration team but never actually progressed any further.

Keep us posted on your investigation and if I get round to doing something I will do the same.

[gmac333]

So, I had EXACTLY the same symptom as in the video of this original post in my N52 E90, with 35,000 miles. This behaviour was always replicable. In addition, the car would hesitate dangerously when trying to pull away after coasting or stationary, sometimes. I tried cleaning the throttle body and the MAF as described, no difference. Today I have the car back from BMW (Berry, Chiswick) who I asked to do the software update and the steps in the PUMA referred to above. They said that the steps were standard with a software update, which I wasn't too convinced of but just requested they carry out all the steps, which they say they did. They also said to complete it fully needs a long test drive which would cost an extra 2 hours of labour, and whether I just wanted to test drive it myself, which I opted for. Yet to take it for a good long drive, but the most replicable and obvbious symptom (the bogging down when flooring the throttle as per the video in N or P) seems to be gone. Will update later as I drive it more, but for now just a thanks to everyone on here for the fix.

[gIzzE]

I have had this on loads of N52s.

If not codes I simply reset all the adaptations in INPA and it has always sorted it.

Sometimes it can be something like poor fuel, the car adapts to keep it smooth running and then when you get good fuel in again it is all out of whack.

[ro881e]

I had this for ages, read about 1000 posts on here and other forums to try to isolate the issue. During lockdown I decided to remove the intake manifold to replace the CCV assembly (plus starter motor whilst I was there, OFHG, oil cooler gasket, and intake gaskets plus check both DISAs). This seems to have eliminated this doom from my otherwise perfect N52 auto. I also reset the DME adaptions in inpa for good measure ( I did this in isolation before, didnt change the problem pre CCV change though).

Whilst the job was a total PITA due to the millions of things attached to the manifold and having no space to manoeuvre, it wasn't what I would call ' difficult'. Just label the wires and take your time. Parts are cheap off eBay too - £60 for CCV and another £60 for Bosch starter. Only rip off was the intake gaskets, £20 for 6 rubber bands! Ha.

[gmac333]

Just to add a follow up to my last post, following the software update performed by the dealer (and most of the other actions in the PUMA) the issue has NOT resurfaced, I'm so happy as it only cost me £150 and there is no more hesitation at all.