[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

OK - good advice!

I have been looking into HEL brake lines, and it suggests for the front of the E90 there is just 1 set of lines (1 per side).

However for the rear the kit contains 4 lines (2 per side) wonder why this is - as it makes the kit quite expensive!!

On pretty much all BMW you have total of 6 brake lines. 2 on the front, 2 in the middle by fuel tank from the floor to subframe, 2 in the rear.

[R99]

Originally Posted by feuer

On pretty much all BMW you have total of 6 brake lines. 2 on the front, 2 in the middle by fuel tank from the floor to subframe, 2 in the rear.

I see!

I'm very tempted to do it - as otherwise I might regret it, as this will be an ideal time while I am paying labour rates to have the brake set ups swapped over.

Are they worth the cash?

[gavronm]

Originally Posted by R99

Are they worth the cash?

Based on my research, no. I've looked into this extensively and in almost every instance where THE ONLY change to the system is going from OEM to aftermarket brake lines people say they can't tell the difference.

Race cars use them because they are the easiest to make custom setups with but all indications are that there is little if any benefit performance wise over the OEM lines.

[R99]

Fair enough! I'm still undecided - I've spent far too much so far anyway!

In terms of the M3 master....

I have read on another thread ( here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030156 ) that people even with just the 4 pot fronts fitted have experienced a soft pedal.

I guess its all open to interpretation at this stage, and my plan is to fit without to start with.

However, should I need to firm up the pedal, with the M3 master. What exactly do I need to change?

Obviously I need the Right Hand Drive M3 Master Cylinder: 34312283534

Do I also need the M3 specific servo unit too, which is part no: 34332283392 ?

The expansion tank is the same, so no need to worry about that.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

Fair enough! I'm still undecided - I've spent far too much so far anyway!

In terms of the M3 master....

I have read on another thread ( here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030156 ) that people even with just the 4 pot fronts fitted have experienced a soft pedal.

I guess its all open to interpretation at this stage, and my plan is to fit without to start with.

However, should I need to firm up the pedal, with the M3 master. What exactly do I need to change?

Obviously I need the Right Hand Drive M3 Master Cylinder: 34312283534

Do I also need the M3 specific servo unit too, which is part no: 34332283392 ?

The expansion tank is the same, so no need to worry about that.

I see have been reading another of my "threads ". Brake line help. Often they are skinnier than rubber counterparts and also don't swell so brake fluid would be more constant. Also the length of the lines would affect brake fluid pressure too. For the M3 master brake cylinder you don't need any other part but the cylinder itself. I would recommend getting a new seal between the cylinder and the servo booster but that is cheap. The space is tight so take your time and be careful not to cross the threads.

[R99]

Originally Posted by feuer

I see have been reading another of my "threads ". Brake line help. Often they are skinnier than rubber counterparts and also don't swell so brake fluid would be more constant. Also the length of the lines would affect brake fluid pressure too. For the M3 master brake cylinder you don't need any other part but the cylinder itself. I would recommend getting a new seal between the cylinder and the servo booster but that is cheap. The space is tight so take your time and be careful not to cross the threads.

Ok, thanks.

I don't have a clue when it comes to fitting parts to my car - I always pay a garage to do the work!

I will ask them to quote for the M3 master when they fit the brakes, that way at least I have an idea of total costs if I need to go down that route!

Is it a big job? Does it involve any bleeding of the ABS brake system?

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

Is it a big job? Does it involve any bleeding of the ABS brake system?

Big job? No is not! Yes, you will have to bleed the brakes. The proper way to bleed the brakes via software, like INPA, so you can activate and open the ABS pump valves.

[R99]

Originally Posted by feuer

Big job? No is not! Yes, you will have to bleed the brakes. The proper way to bleed the brakes via software, like INPA, so you can activate and open the ABS pump valves.

Is that process only required if you change the master cylinder?

The place fitting my brakes just bleeds them the 'traditional' way I.e they pump the pedal to remove the air from the system.

That was the same way my 135i set up was done and there were no issues.

I guess disconnecting the master & replacing it opens up the need to use software?

[R99]

Also Feuer.

I apologise for YET ANOTHER QUESTION...... however its with regards to the F3x backing plates.

I have ordered the F3x plates, on the provision they offer better cooling, but I forgot to ask you if they fit without modification or not?

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

Is that process only required if you change the master cylinder?

The place fitting my brakes just bleeds them the 'traditional' way I.e they pump the pedal to remove the air from the system.

That was the same way my 135i set up was done and there were no issues.

I guess disconnecting the master & replacing it opens up the need to use software?

Probably they crimped the lines during the 135i brake swap to prevent fluid running out and air going into the system.
If lines are left disconnected air will travel up into the ABS pump.
Even when replacing the master cylinder you can still bleed the system the traditional way by pumping the brakes but chances are that you will have air trapped in the ABS pump and will require re bleeding.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

Also Feuer.

I apologise for YET ANOTHER QUESTION...... however its with regards to the F3x backing plates.

I have ordered the F3x plates, on the provision they offer better cooling, but I forgot to ask you if they fit without modification or not?

One hole doesn't line up and you will have to drill the dust shield. Is about 1cm off.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by feuer

Install the brakes and see how you like the pedal feel. I track my car and prefer stiffer pedal. So after one season I upgraded the master cylinder. It was not too soft just not to my liking.

I also did the upgrade with the rears.
I just went ahead and swapped my master cylinder for the M3 unit.
I figured, since I had gone through all this pain, that was the easiest part of the swap.

The backing plates aren't necessary.
I trimmed my rears and didn't bother with the fronts. The standard 335 backing plates are large enough for the 370mm rotors and work fine. Could they be a bit bigger? Yes, but they still work. But is you have a 328 you will need the backing plates.

I have the full set if anyone wants them. Make me an offer.

Also the brake lines above the rear subframe are a pain to change.
Real tight. Takes lots of time since there is no rom to work. I did mine but I spent a lot of time just getting those swapped.

As far a bleeding.
I used a pressure bleeder.
A rubber mallet is your friend. You will need to to dislodge the tiny air bubbles in the calipers.
Even if you pressure bleed, there will be trapped air. Hitting the caliper with a mallet while using the pressure bleeder will help.

As far as the ABS unit.
I didn't use INPA, but I used the end of the mallet handle to tap the ABS block to dislodge air bubbles.
I did the pressure bleed three times and only on time #3 did I not get any air bubbles in the catch tubes.

Hope that helps.
The brakes do look awesome and perform the same way.

One more thing. The slotted and dimpled performance rotors are noisy.
At low speeds you hear them as a swishing noise.

[R99]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

I also did the upgrade with the rears.
I just went ahead and swapped my master cylinder for the M3 unit.
I figured, since I had gone through all this pain, that was the easiest part of the swap.

The backing plates aren't necessary.
I trimmed my rears and didn't bother with the fronts. The standard 335 backing plates are large enough for the 370mm rotors and work fine. Could they be a bit bigger? Yes, but they still work. But is you have a 328 you will need the backing plates.

I have the full set if anyone wants them. Make me an offer.

Also the brake lines above the rear subframe are a pain to change.
Real tight. Takes lots of time since there is no rom to work. I did mine but I spent a lot of time just getting those swapped.

As far a bleeding.
I used a pressure bleeder.
A rubber mallet is your friend. You will need to to dislodge the tiny air bubbles in the calipers.
Even if you pressure bleed, there will be trapped air. Hitting the caliper with a mallet while using the pressure bleeder will help.

As far as the ABS unit.
I didn't use INPA, but I used the end of the mallet handle to tap the ABS block to dislodge air bubbles.
I did the pressure bleed three times and only on time #3 did I not get any air bubbles in the catch tubes.

Hope that helps.
The brakes do look awesome and perform the same way.

One more thing. The slotted and dimpled performance rotors are noisy.
At low speeds you hear them as a swishing noise.

Very helpful info thanks!

I have ordered the F3x backing plates, but if I can get away without them, then I will return them!

I have a 325d (I know you guys don't get this model!) according to the part diagrams my FRONT backing plate is part no:

Left: 34116780215
Right: 34116780216

I think this is the same backing plates that are used on the E9x 335i?

Do they need trimming, or do they ft fine with the new F3x caliper & 370mm disc?

[R99]

Brakes turned up today! Not bad for £420 including pads!

Not a mark on them.

My M Performance 370mm's also turned up too...



Do I reuse my E9x caliper mounting bolts, or do I need F3x specific?

Also, any answers regarding my previous question about the dust shields - will my existing part numbers work with the set up pictured?

[e90TiAg335i]

Yes you can reuse your stock caliper bracket mounting bolts to bolt on the F30 calipers.
I just completed install front and rear F30 m-performance brakes as well. I also replaced the master cylinder with the M3 master and the pedal feel is great. As stated earlier, the rotors due make some noise but it's not too bad. Goes along with the gear wine from the diff due to harder diff and subframe bushings...You know, because race car...lol

[feuer]

Originally Posted by e90TiAg335i

Yes you can reuse your stock caliper bracket mounting bolts to bolt on the F30 calipers.
I just completed install front and rear F30 m-performance brakes as well.

Only the bolts from the front. The rear must be f30 as they are larger. How did you go about the real brakes instalation? Please post some photos from the new brakes.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

will my existing part numbers work with the set up pictured?

yes, the existing shields would work with the rotor but I'm not sure if they will work with the new larger calipers. Your stock calipers are quite small so yiu might end up having to trim the existing shields a bit. Since you have already ordered the F30 shields and they are not big expense just go ahead and instal them.

[e90TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by feuer

Only the bolts from the front. The rear must be f30 as they are larger. How did you go about the real brakes instalation? Please post some photos from the new brakes.

I milled down the mounting pads on the calipers. I was hoping they'd work as is since mine is an LCI but I had the same issue you did. I could have milled off another mm or so but the pads just do fit without rubbing all the time.
I'll have to get pictures yet. I've been too busy working on other people's cars.

[R99]

Ok, thread revival as I have one final question before the brakes get fitted on Wednesday!

I have my stock rears back from paint / full rebuild and I have booked the car in for the new set up to go on!

Brake pad wear sensors.

For the F3x fronts, which sensor do I need - is it the one with the L shaped plastic bracket on the end?

For the rears, since I am returning to stock, I will just get BMW to check the parts diagram for me and order a new rear.

The fronts though, I am unsure?

[R99]

Feuer, can you help with this as I will need to order the parts in the morning to be sure!

Thanks

[feuer]

Originally Posted by R99

Feuer, can you help with this as I will need to order the parts in the morning to be sure!

Thanks

Yes, from post #260
Part 34356789440
I don't have these sensors. Removed both front and rear.

[R99]

Originally Posted by feuer

Yes, from post #260
Part 34356789440
I don't have these sensors. Removed both front and rear.

Ok, so part no: 34356789440 for the F3x fronts, which will plug in to the E9x car side wiring without any issue?

My dealer should have the rears in stock, as it's the OEM set up