[xiaolonguk]

Guys

I know this seems to have been done to death, but rarely does anyone actually post back with a actual cure. About 4 months ago, i changed discs and pads on my 330d. The car is actually running the 6-pot brembo BMW M-performance calipers, and thus discs and pads front and rear.

Shortly after fitting the new discs and pads, i started to experience judder or shudder when lightly breaking, being more violent at higher speeds, until you hit the brakes hard.

I thought i had wrapped a disc, and measured run out on the discs and hubs and thought it seemed excessive, thus purchased a new set from BMW, and again the same story, after several thousands of miles.

Ive replaced the hub today, and still the exact same problem. Ive done the re-bedding process 60+ mph breaking down to low speeds and it has still persists.

Im thinking this is more to do we a suspension related issue, has anyone actually cured this problem on an e90? Im next looking at a Mayle front control arm kit that includes the drop links to, but im not keen to purchase this until I have a high degree of confidence it will resolve the problem.

Wheels are perfectly balanced, and have new rubber on them. No vibrations at all until breaking.

Many thanks for reading.

[geko29]

I have the exact same problem on my 335d, see my thread here: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1577921

My assumption is that it's the control arms, though since I'm due for front brakes next month I'm going to do those first on the off chance that makes it go away. But I don't think so.

If you wind up replacing your CAs, please post back to let me know if it fixed the problem for you. It'll probably be a bit for me since I coughed up $2400 for a new SCR Cat just over a week ago and am looking at another $2k for CBU cleaning (at an indy) and front brakes (DIY) a few weeks hence.

[xiaolonguk]

Ill let you know after the weekend, I went ahead and order the Meyle HD kit that includes upper and lower arms, plus the drop links, im going to change them all, hopefully ill be able to tell you what the problem looks like once the odd components are off the car.

Ive had a fair few reads on here, but as you can see no replies, so either no one knows what my problem is or......

More to come shortly

[Silnismo]

Do all 4 wheels spin freely when the car is up? If not could be a caliper issue. Had something similar, turned out to be a sticking rear driver caliper.

[juld0zer]

Find an empty street, get the car to about 10-20kmh and stab the brake pedal. Do you hear/feel a thump?

Next, raise and securely support the front of the car, or drive it up onto ramps.
Inspect the big bush for the caster arm (upper control arm in some books, or tension strut in BMW's literature). Is the black oil stains?

If they check out ok, take some photos of the discs and post them here.
From what you have told us, I think your suspension components are ok but you may have pad imprints on the discs from your car washing habits (wheel cleaner chemical and/or not drying the discs after washing the car) or driving habits (standing on the brake pedal after getting them very hot).

[xiaolonguk]

Guys, so i replaced all the control arms and the drop links. The balljoints on the arms had signs of wear, however are probably in tolerance. The drop links, the balls joints had alot of free movement but again i would say they are not the cause.

Having replaced everything, the shuddering is not as bad, however it is still there. I cant find any free play in the wheels.

Given this is the 2nd set of discs ive had on the car I dont think its down to them warping. Ask for braking and washing habits they have not changed at all from before this problem started to occur. Ive tried doing the 60mph to 10mph braking/bedding in to clean the discs and pads, but this has made no different.

Im abit lost where to go now. Im on the 2nd set of discs, ive changed the bearing/hub on the side that was showing run out best the brake manufacturers spec, and now the suspension components.

Maybe I should post a video of the issue? Some times if feels like its coming from a corner, other times it feels like its the middle of the car.

[juld0zer]

In your original post you mentioned the issue goes away each time after replacing the brake discs. That is why I am asking about your washing habits and driving habits. It is very common and extremely easy to get pad imprints on the discs.

The dust between the pad and disc mixes with the water and detergent, becoming a paste that fills the pores of the disc surface, and more, creating a high patch. You can usually see the brake pad imprints without taking the wheels off. It creates a warped disc sensation. The only two ways to fix this are to lightly machine the discs or replace them.

When you replaced the control arms, did you tighten the bush bolts with the wheels on the ground or in the air?

[xiaolonguk]

If it was washing habit though surely I would have had this before I replaced the discs given i wash the car the same ways? Its really confusing me why its doing it.

Could the top mounts on the shocks be cause it?

When I tighten up the arms, I did it with the hub under load, using a jack to raise it to near ride height.

I read an article last night about the propshaft flange causing similar issues, but then id expect this under engine load and not braking......

[xiaolonguk]

so here is a picture of each disc. Im not sure if the top mounts have gone, as sometimes I can hear a clunk. Ive attempting to rent a ramp for a couple of hours so I can pull off all the floor pans and have a good prod round with a pry bar.

[xiaolonguk]

So i rented two hours on a lift this afternoon. Ive pulled, prodded and poke everything on the front on the car. Alls all tight. I did the same on the rear, the same all tight. Im now lost.

Ive also moved the right disc to the left side, and the left disc to the right side to see if that made any difference or would help to identify if it was related to a particular front corner.

No Joys there either.

Its the only car ive ever owned to have had this problem, and this only came since changing the discs and pads.

[insanesam]

Here's a timeline of my issues with steering wheel vibration

- Jan 2015: new tyres - started noticing vibrations around 50mph. Got tyres re-balanced then vibration moved to about 70mph. Put in Meyle HD thrust arms (torqued under load) vibration persists so at this point i just accepted it
- Apr 2015: new rotors (RDA front and rear) and Zimmerman pads. Extremely bad vibration. Multiple rounds of bedding in and cleaning rotors, problem persisted
- Aug 2015: new rotors (Zimmerman front and rear) and re-used pads. Problem gone. Assumption was cheap rotors
- Sep 2017: vibration back. Assumed brake pad deposits. Cleaned rotors with flex hone. Seemed to fix for about a week. Check thrust arms, bushings were shot (only after 15000miles). Replaced again with Meyle HD vibration persisted but was much better than before. Replaced only front rotors and new TRW pads. Problem gone. Assumption - combination of failed bushings and brake pad deposits
- Dec 2018: vibration back. Assumption was brake pad deposits. Clean with flex hone but came back after a week. Check thrust arm bushings again and noticed cracks. Was about to replace again with Meyle HD (FCP Euro warranty) but decided to just replace bushing with poly urethane. Problem gone. It has been 2 weeks, so not going to celebrate yet

[geko29]

Not that it helps your situation, but in my case, replacing the front brakes--ECS GEOMET drilled/slotted rotors, Hawk HPS 5.0 pads--along with installing brass caliper slide bushings completely eliminated the shudder for me. My old pads were REALLY low though, probably 1/16". I suspect the outside edges of the metal backing plate was rubbing on the unswept area of the rotors.

[juld0zer]

OP, What pads are you using?

[juld0zer]

Originally Posted by insanesam

Here's a timeline of my issues with steering wheel vibration

- Jan 2015: new tyres - started noticing vibrations around 50mph. Got tyres re-balanced then vibration moved to about 70mph. Put in Meyle HD thrust arms (torqued under load) vibration persists so at this point i just accepted it
- Apr 2015: new rotors (RDA front and rear) and Zimmerman pads. Extremely bad vibration. Multiple rounds of bedding in and cleaning rotors, problem persisted
- Aug 2015: new rotors (Zimmerman front and rear) and re-used pads. Problem gone. Assumption was cheap rotors
- Sep 2017: vibration back. Assumed brake pad deposits. Cleaned rotors with flex hone. Seemed to fix for about a week. Check thrust arms, bushings were shot (only after 15000miles). Replaced again with Meyle HD vibration persisted but was much better than before. Replaced only front rotors and new TRW pads. Problem gone. Assumption - combination of failed bushings and brake pad deposits
- Dec 2018: vibration back. Assumption was brake pad deposits. Clean with flex hone but came back after a week. Check thrust arm bushings again and noticed cracks. Was about to replace again with Meyle HD (FCP Euro warranty) but decided to just replace bushing with poly urethane. Problem gone. It has been 2 weeks, so not going to celebrate yet

Roads in your area must be terrible or do you stamp on the brake often?