[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by fatty335

Car was a Texas car its whole life, now in Oklahoma so I seriously doubt cold weather was an issue here.

I don't generally use the term "cold start" to mean "cold weather starts."

A cold start is any time you fire up the engine when it's NOT up to temperature and it has been sitting (like overnight).

Even if it's 90f when you wake up int eh morning oil at 90f still isn't nearly as viscous as oil at 210f. It's a cold start and the oil film on the upper bearing shell has drained off from the car sitting.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah but I rarely see threads or feuer I don't think he has done manny and mostly just N55s?

Are you in ANY of the N5x facebook groups? There is a blown N54 posted up almost daily between every thread lol.

https://www.facebook.com/dino.grabic...8987568133884/

[hassmaschine]

yeah but how many of those guys are running double the factory boost levels and beating on it all the time..

Plus it's Facebook. Many in those FB car groups are not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed...

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Are you in ANY of the N5x facebook groups? There is a blown N54 posted up almost daily between every thread lol.

https://www.facebook.com/dino.grabic...8987568133884/

Oh I didn't know about communities were actually more active on Facebook.

Well then. Did I buy the wrong car lmao.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yeah but how many of those guys are running double the factory boost levels and beating on it all the time..

Plus it's Facebook. Many in those FB car groups are not exactly the sharpest tools in the shed...

I am not saying the cars weren't abused. I am saying that N54's, with the exact same rod bearings and .0015" clearance, aren't any different lol.

There are literally people going around claiming N55 has rod bearing issues and N54s don't.

OPs bearings look like WEAR to me. They don't look like a bearing issue (crush, load capacity, journal consistency, etc.). As in, it was caused by long-term oiling issue (dry starts, fuel dilution, OCI, poor oil quality or too thick of an oil, etc.). The leading theory for me now points to dry starts cause more wear over time which is why BMW is using IROX on the upper shells in all of their new motors.

I speculated this months ago that we might see people start to tear down these n5x and find high amounts of bearing wear just like every other BMW engine of the past 2 decades.

fatty335 I would consider using aftermarket bearings like KING. Seems like a huge waste of money to put BMW bearings back in at $30 a shell when you can get the entire set for $26.99. rrrrrr means all standard (yellow) lower shells, right? Doesn't the block tell you what uppers to use? Doesn't seem like you should have any issue using a builder set of bearings and then double checking clearances with plastiguage since all journals are showing as standard bearings. You can use the money savings to get the King bearings treated with this IROX crap.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by fatty335

So that is the million dollar question, isn't it. Based on my research and opinion, I suspect it is a combination of many factors, to include:
Design (tight tolerances, bearing composition, etc.)
Factory recommended OCIs that almost all followed due to lease/free maintenance
Driving style (i.e. driving hard on cold oil)
Improper or delayed maintenance
Poor quality fuel
Tuning

Obviously these are weighted differently in each instance but I suspect they all come into play in some measure. I doubt anyone will ever be able to narrow it down to one thing.

What torque sequence did u end up using 70 deg plus another 70 degrees (140 total) or just 70 once.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Hey feuer thank you for your input. Do you think that engine was neglected ? In terms of oil intervals or anything like that ?

I can see bbnks2 comment that cold starts causing bearings to fail prematurely making sense as most of these vehicles that come to the shop are relatively low mileage, from 70k to 100k and are about 10y ol, so a lot of city, stop and go, and short travel distances, not because they were abused or neglected. Most not even tuned, completely stock and driven by mature people. Oil pan look very clean. No sludge or derbies at all.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by feuer

I can see bbnks2 comment that cold starts causing bearings to fail prematurely making sense as most of these vehicles that come to the shop are relatively low mileage, from 70k to 100k and are about 10y ol, so a lot of city, stop and go, and short travel distances, not because they were abused or neglected. Most not even tuned, completely stock and driven by mature people. Oil pan look very clean. No sludge or derbies at all.

Hmm this is also in line with BMW using 0w-30 FE. I have a feeling it has more to do with just fuel economy. Just a speculation obv.

I am personally convinced that low weight oil is the best choice.

[fatty335]

Originally Posted by Pladi

What torque sequence did u end up using 70 deg plus another 70 degrees (140 total) or just 70 once.

20nm, 70 degrees, then 70 degrees again for all bolts (ex. 20nm bolt #1, 20nm bolt #2, 70 degrees bolt #1, 70 degrees bolt #2, 70 degrees again bolt #1, 70 degrees again bolt #2). This was per bmwTIS, newTIS, and Ghassan.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Hmm this is also in line with BMW using 0w-30 FE. I have a feeling it has more to do with just fuel economy. Just a speculation obv.

I am personally convinced that low weight oil is the best choice.

You're talking about the 1st number right? Because if we compare for example a 0w-40 to 0w-30 both should be pretty similar when it's doing the cold starting.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by fatty335

20nm, 70 degrees, then 70 degrees again for all bolts (ex. 20nm bolt #1, 20nm bolt #2, 70 degrees bolt #1, 70 degrees bolt #2, 70 degrees again bolt #1, 70 degrees again bolt #2). This was per bmwTIS, newTIS, and Ghassan.

awesome. Thanks again. Are you going to continue to use 0w-40 ?

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

You're talking about the 1st number right? Because if we compare for example a 0w-40 to 0w-30 both should be pretty similar when it's doing the cold starting.

Not necessarily at all. Not all 0W oils are the same. Not only that but there is a difference between 0w-30 and 0w-40 in cold only regardless of their 0W weight being the same. It has to do with the ability of the oil to change viscosity with temp. the VI index. This is due to the different type of base stock and additives.

Oils get much more complicated than their API ratings.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by fatty335

20nm, 70 degrees, then 70 degrees again for all bolts (ex. 20nm bolt #1, 20nm bolt #2, 70 degrees bolt #1, 70 degrees bolt #2, 70 degrees again bolt #1, 70 degrees again bolt #2). This was per bmwTIS, newTIS, and Ghassan.

This is 2nd Ghassan "rebuild" n54 that come to our shop. It was supposedly rebuild 4 months ago. I suspect failed bearings going by the noise engine makes. I have nothing personal against them but from what I have seen I can tell that they are scamming people.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Not necessarily at all. Not all 0W oils are the same. Not only that but there is a difference between 0w-30 and 0w-40 in cold only regardless of their 0W weight being the same. It has to do with the ability of the oil to change viscosity with temp. the VI index. This is due to the different type of base stock and additives.

Oils get much more complicated than their API ratings.

Yeah I know it gets complicated but I thought the 0W rating was somewhat the same. Oh well. Maybe I should get 0W-30 then.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by feuer

This is 2nd Ghassan "rebuild" n54 that come to our shop. It was supposedly rebuild 4 months ago. I suspect failed bearings going by the noise engine makes. I have nothing personal against them but from what I have seen I can tell that they are scamming people.

As awful as this is, why wouldn't the customer bring the car to Ghassan. He provides a 2-year unlimited mile warranty with all his rebuilds. There are bound to be a few failures when you are cranking out hundreds of re-machined blocks lol

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah I know it gets complicated but I thought the 0W rating was somewhat the same. Oh well. Maybe I should get 0W-30 then.

If you are talking about LL-01 oils, 30-40wt doesn't make much difference. LL-01 will be within 1-2cSt of each-other and all will be >3.5cP HTHS with low Noack % etc.

Seems like if you believe in what BMW is saying then it's a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation. Their solution is to run treated bearings that can provide dry lubrication not change oil specs. You're limited in what you can do with oil weight by the tolerances. 0wt is definitely the way to go over 5wt though.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

If you are talking about LL-01 oils, 30-40wt doesn't make much difference. LL-01 will be within 1-2cSt of each-other and all will be >3.5cP HTHS with low Noack % etc.

Seems like if you believe in what BMW is saying then it's a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation. Their solution is to run treated bearings that can provide dry lubrication not change oil specs. You're limited in what you can do with oil weight by the tolerances. 0wt is definitely the way to go over 5wt though.

So it took BMW 2 decades to figure this out ? All they needed is coated bearings ? Or is there another root cause.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

As awful as this is, why wouldn't the customer bring the car to Ghassan. He provides a 2-year unlimited mile warranty with all his rebuilds. There are bound to be a few failures when you are cranking out hundreds of re-machined blocks lol

They don't crank out hundreds. Is just good marketing. The 2y warranty is just a catch. This car was back once already. Person was with out a car for about 3-4 moths each time. When you pay for rebuild and get an engine swap twice you will not send the car again (third time) and will seek legal action instead. I have posted more info on another thread.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

If you are talking about LL-01 oils, 30-40wt doesn't make much difference. LL-01 will be within 1-2cSt of each-other and all will be >3.5cP HTHS with low Noack % etc.

Seems like if you believe in what BMW is saying then it's a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation. Their solution is to run treated bearings that can provide dry lubrication not change oil specs. You're limited in what you can do with oil weight by the tolerances. 0wt is definitely the way to go over 5wt though.

Yeah that's what I was thinking as the LL01 spec have the same oil formulas, the german stuff I believe.

But yeah I see what you mean no matter the oil it's as if it will happen. I hope my car goes to at least 150 000 KM then. I never planned doing a rod bearing change that's a main pont as to why I got the N54 instead of S65...

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Pladi

So it took BMW 2 decades to figure this out ? All they needed is coated bearings ? Or is there another root cause.

You're asking the wrong person lol. I just quoted what was in the BMW engine academy PDFs agree it makes sense.

S65 had custom BE bearings made that widen the tolerance and use a harder bearing material. I think most engine re-builders are having cranks cut and run wider tolerances etc. Neither is exactly a solution for the average driver and neither is really proven to change anything. havn't seen any S65 posts showing teardowns after another 70k of BE bearing use ya know...

[Kev0]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

If you are talking about LL-01 oils, 30-40wt doesn't make much difference. LL-01 will be within 1-2cSt of each-other and all will be >3.5cP HTHS with low Noack % etc.

Seems like if you believe in what BMW is saying then it's a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation. Their solution is to run treated bearings that can provide dry lubrication not change oil specs. You're limited in what you can do with oil weight by the tolerances. 0wt is definitely the way to go over 5wt though.

I've been using Mobil/Castrol 0w40 but recently (this past weekend), my mechanic replaced my oil pan gasket due to a minor leak and he used LiquiMoly 5w40. I usually request that he uses Mobil 0w40 but since he keep LiquiMoly in stock, I decided to try it. After picking up the car yesterday, I must say that I definitely feel a difference with 5w40. I can hear the difference with cold start and the idle and drive was much smoother. Definitely not a placebo effect. Any cons running 5w40? I'm thinking about permanently switching from Mobil/Castrol 0w40 to Liqui Moly 5w40 from this experience alone.

[9krpmrx8]