Is it safe to run upgraded turbos on OTC map?

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 03:37 PM

I just bought a set of TD04 17T turbos on ebay although I am not after pushing them or the car to the limit. Wondering if it's fine to run them on an OTC MHD map or JB4 map 5 with BEF instead of getting a custom tune.

BTW they were $730 so I couldn't pass up the price, plus I don't really want to spend a lot on upgrades as this is more of a budget build for fun.

Tyc0 · 08-23-2021, 03:45 PM

"As for the MHD tune you absolutely will require a custom tune for these upgraded turbos, the MHD Off The Shelf (OTS) tunes are ONLY designed for stock turbos (and not ANY upgraded turbos whatsoever)."

That's what rob from RB turbo told me about my upgraded set.

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyc0

"As for the MHD tune you absolutely will require a custom tune for these upgraded turbos, the MHD Off The Shelf (OTS) tunes are ONLY designed for stock turbos (and not ANY upgraded turbos whatsoever)."

That's what rob from RB turbo told me about my upgraded set.

Right, but is there any harm in targeting say 18psi on upgraded turbos? Trying to understand whether or not that is possible and if its harmful at all, I would think not.

I will be upgrading the MAP sensor to 3.5 BAR as well, along with inlets.

Tyc0 · 08-23-2021, 03:57 PM

I don't know if it's harmful, but from the way he specified not to leads me to believe it definitely isn't good. Again I don't know, car might drive really weird because those are a lot bigger, might get limp mode due to over boost. Guess you could try but a custom tune is only $300.

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyc0

I don't know if it's harmful, but from the way he specified not to leads me to believe it definitely isn't good. Again I don't know, car might drive really weird because those are a lot bigger, might get limp mode due to over boost. Guess you could try but a custom tune is only $300.

I wanted to wait and tune it later. I suppose I will need to find someone to do the custom tune. Where do I even look? lol

Tyc0 · 08-23-2021, 04:03 PM

I would assume there are a few threads of people talking about tuners. I asked Rob who he suggests and he gave me a list, and I chose the cheapest which was Justin Hubenak's (V8bait on forums). It turned out great and many other people have used him as well. I could get you that list of names if you'd like.

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyc0

I would assume there are a few threads of people talking about tuners. I asked Rob who he suggests and he gave me a list, and I chose the cheapest which was Justin Hubenak's (V8bait on forums). It turned out great and many other people have used him as well. I could get you that list of names if you'd like.

Yes please, I am planning to tackle the install next week. I was hoping to get an upgraded fuel pump before doing a tune, but I guess I can just tune it with the current pump I have which is fairly new.

Tyc0 · 08-23-2021, 04:13 PM

"For tuning here are a few we know are as follows:
Wedge Performance (Ken)
BQ Tuning (Dmitri)
RFP Tuning (Dean)
Twisted Tuning (Justin)
David Shoupe Tuning (David)
V8Bait (Justin Hubenak) Great Private Tuner: jrhubenak@gmail.com"

I would recommend doing the DIY walbro 450 pump install. Essentially gives you a stage 2 bucket less pump for ~$115, this is what I did and it works great. You can look this up and find many people doing it, as well as videos about it on YouTube.

Dave92N54 · 08-23-2021, 04:15 PM

The reasons are boost control, load control and fueling. The OTS maps are designed and tested for the stock turbos. 18psi on stocks vs 18psi on say RB Twos are two very very different things.

I'm sure they may work, but the real question is how well, and how long? To me it seems like a big waste of time to upgrade turbos and then not spend the ~$200-$400 on a tune to properly use them.

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyc0

"For tuning here are a few we know are as follows:
Wedge Performance (Ken)
BQ Tuning (Dmitri)
RFP Tuning (Dean)
Twisted Tuning (Justin)
David Shoupe Tuning (David)
V8Bait (Justin Hubenak) Great Private Tuner: jrhubenak@gmail.com"

I would recommend doing the DIY walbro 450 pump install. Essentially gives you a stage 2 bucket less pump for ~$115, this is what I did and it works great. You can look this up and find many people doing it, as well as videos about it on YouTube.

Appreciate it, thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave92N54

The reasons are boost control, load control and fueling. The OTS maps are designed and tested for the stock turbos. 18psi on stocks vs 18psi on say RB Twos are two very very different things.

I'm sure they may work, but the real question is how well, and how long? To me it seems like a big waste of time to upgrade turbos and then not spend the ~$200-$400 on a tune to properly use them.

I can see that, bigger turbo will offer more volume and since our cars don't have MAF that could be a problem. Is there at least a base map I can start with? I'd need to run some logs, would be great to at least be close to where it should be.

Saif2018 · 08-23-2021, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDog89

Right, but is there any harm in targeting say 18psi on upgraded turbos? Trying to understand whether or not that is possible and if its harmful at all, I would think not.

I will be upgrading the MAP sensor to 3.5 BAR as well, along with inlets.

The problem isn't necessarily harm, the problem is OTS maps are gonna run pretty badly on upgraded hybrid turbos for reasons mentioned in the previous posts.

Your much better of running a custom tune, even if you want a Conservative tune.

Saif2018 · 08-23-2021, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDog89

Appreciate it, thank you!

I can see that, bigger turbo will offer more volume and since our cars don't have MAF that could be a problem. Is there at least a base map I can start with? I'd need to run some logs, would be great to at least be close to where it should be.

When you go for a custom tune, the tuner will give you a base map, you'll then be Dataloging and sending it to the tuner to revise/adjust and flashing multiple revisions until its dialed in.

Torgus · 08-23-2021, 05:18 PM

A custom tune is so damn cheap just get one.

RnmEvo9 · 08-23-2021, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torgus

A custom tune is so damn cheap just get one.

Pretty much this.

You are doing a disservice to your car by running an OTS map with upgraded turbos. It will run like shit.

Torgus · 08-23-2021, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

Pretty much this.

You are doing a disservice to your car by running an OTS map with upgraded turbos. It will run like shit.

Exactly.

Same with not running inlets on upgraded twins. I know everything adds up but it's all relatively small money. DIY a walbro for the LPFP, inlets, custom tune = smiles. Outlets if you want.

Until the cheap china cast twins fail but it seems to be hit or miss as far as their longevity, which is not surprising.

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saif2018

When you go for a custom tune, the tuner will give you a base map, you'll then be Dataloging and sending it to the tuner to revise/adjust and flashing multiple revisions until its dialed in.

Got it, I will definitely get in touch with one once I get them mounted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torgus

Exactly.

Same with not running inlets on upgraded twins. I know everything adds up but it's all relatively small money. DIY a walbro for the LPFP, inlets, custom tune = smiles. Outlets if you want.

Until the cheap china cast twins fail but it seems to be hit or miss as far as their longevity, which is not surprising.

So far I've done all the preventive + FBO, stock turbo rattle too much at this point and I wanted to replace them anyway. I went with upgraded just for the hell of it, I don't daily drive this car.

E93Beast · 08-23-2021, 07:14 PM

If you already have a JB4, BEF it , set user settings to default, and you will be good to run map1 and evaluate from there.

MadDog89 · 08-23-2021, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93Beast

If you already have a JB4, BEF it , set user settings to default, and you will be good to run map1 and evaluate from there.

I have the JB4, just need to reinstall it. I was looking at this thread on n54tech (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33200) states to use JB4 and BEF with appropriate fuel type. I have access to shit 91 and E85.

E93Beast · 08-23-2021, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDog89

I have the JB4, just need to reinstall it. I was looking at this thread on n54tech (https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33200) states to use JB4 and BEF with appropriate fuel type. I have access to shit 91 and E85.

Yeah, me too here in L.A.
Hook up the Jb4 and hit me....I can help get you squared away.

Torgus · 08-23-2021, 07:32 PM

Run full E85

91 is piss and makes crap numbers even on upgraded twins. Especially in the heat.

E93Beast · 08-23-2021, 07:33 PM

Agreed....I run full E85
Hey Torgie :wave:

Torgus · 08-23-2021, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93Beast

Agreed....I run full E85
Hey Torgie :wave:

Hey buddy!

08-23-2021, 03:37 PM	#1
MadDog89 Second Lieutenant 52 Rep 250 Posts Drives: 2007 335i E92 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: California iTrader: (0)	Is it safe to run upgraded turbos on OTC map? I just bought a set of TD04 17T turbos on ebay although I am not after pushing them or the car to the limit. Wondering if it's fine to run them on an OTC MHD map or JB4 map 5 with BEF instead of getting a custom tune. BTW they were $730 so I couldn't pass up the price, plus I don't really want to spend a lot on upgrades as this is more of a budget build for fun. __________________ 2007 335i 17T EBAY Turbos, FBO, Stage 2 LPFP, Index 12 Injectors, 2 Step Colder Plugs, OEM Coils
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

08-23-2021, 03:45 PM	#2
Tyc0 Lieutenant 147 Rep 517 Posts Drives: BMW e92 335i Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	"As for the MHD tune you absolutely will require a custom tune for these upgraded turbos, the MHD Off The Shelf (OTS) tunes are ONLY designed for stock turbos (and not ANY upgraded turbos whatsoever)." That's what rob from RB turbo told me about my upgraded set.
	Appreciate 1 Dave92N54528.00 Quote

08-23-2021, 03:57 PM	#4
Tyc0 Lieutenant 147 Rep 517 Posts Drives: BMW e92 335i Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	I don't know if it's harmful, but from the way he specified not to leads me to believe it definitely isn't good. Again I don't know, car might drive really weird because those are a lot bigger, might get limp mode due to over boost. Guess you could try but a custom tune is only $300.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-23-2021, 04:03 PM	#6
Tyc0 Lieutenant 147 Rep 517 Posts Drives: BMW e92 335i Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	I would assume there are a few threads of people talking about tuners. I asked Rob who he suggests and he gave me a list, and I chose the cheapest which was Justin Hubenak's (V8bait on forums). It turned out great and many other people have used him as well. I could get you that list of names if you'd like.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-23-2021, 04:13 PM	#8
Tyc0 Lieutenant 147 Rep 517 Posts Drives: BMW e92 335i Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Oregon iTrader: (0)	"For tuning here are a few we know are as follows: Wedge Performance (Ken) BQ Tuning (Dmitri) RFP Tuning (Dean) Twisted Tuning (Justin) David Shoupe Tuning (David) V8Bait (Justin Hubenak) Great Private Tuner: jrhubenak@gmail.com" I would recommend doing the DIY walbro 450 pump install. Essentially gives you a stage 2 bucket less pump for ~$115, this is what I did and it works great. You can look this up and find many people doing it, as well as videos about it on YouTube.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-23-2021, 04:15 PM	#9
Dave92N54 Major 528 Rep 1,165 Posts Drives: 09 E92 335i 6MT Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Westminster, Maryland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW 335i [10.00]	The reasons are boost control, load control and fueling. The OTS maps are designed and tested for the stock turbos. 18psi on stocks vs 18psi on say RB Twos are two very very different things. I'm sure they may work, but the real question is how well, and how long? To me it seems like a big waste of time to upgrade turbos and then not spend the ~$200-$400 on a tune to properly use them. __________________ 09 E92 335i 6MT / Alpine White / Coral Red / VRSF 7.5" / VRSF DCI / VRSF Catless Downpipes / VTT Charge Pipe / Turbosmart RacePort Gen V / RB OEM Billet Turbos / CD919 Custom Tune / Bilstein PSS9s
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-23-2021, 05:18 PM	#13
Torgus Slow. 3782 Rep 7,151 Posts Drives: Single Turbo N54 on Meth! Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 BMW E92 [10.00] 2007 BMW E90 [0.00] 2006 BMW E91 [0.00]	A custom tune is so damn cheap just get one. __________________ E92 ACF ST 6466 + Meth Motiv / E70 #1 fully deleted 2.8 race flash / E70 #2 JBD / E90 & E91 both retired Psalm 144
	Appreciate 3 RnmEvo9247.00 Dave92N54528.00 Vivek.1366.00 Quote

08-23-2021, 07:14 PM	#17
E93Beast Banned 633 Rep 230 Posts Drives: E93 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Land of tha Heartless iTrader: (0)	If you already have a JB4, BEF it , set user settings to default, and you will be good to run map1 and evaluate from there.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-23-2021, 07:32 PM	#20
Torgus Slow. 3782 Rep 7,151 Posts Drives: Single Turbo N54 on Meth! Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 BMW E92 [10.00] 2007 BMW E90 [0.00] 2006 BMW E91 [0.00]	Run full E85 91 is piss and makes crap numbers even on upgraded twins. Especially in the heat. __________________ E92 ACF ST 6466 + Meth Motiv / E70 #1 fully deleted 2.8 race flash / E70 #2 JBD / E90 & E91 both retired Psalm 144
	Appreciate 1 BSM n54iS2684.50 Quote

08-23-2021, 07:33 PM	#21
E93Beast Banned 633 Rep 230 Posts Drives: E93 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Land of tha Heartless iTrader: (0)	Agreed....I run full E85 Hey Torgie :wave:
	Appreciate 2 Torgus3781.50 Dave92N54528.00 Quote