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[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by vautrain

Depends a lot on where you drive. The winters aren't that much better around Chicago, but the streets are kept pretty clear almost all the time. If there was that much snow on the roads, I'm not sure my E91 would have enough clearance to handle it, anyway, regardless of the tire. Though I do remember my E60 xDrive handled some pretty serious snow after a big storm like a champ, and I don't recall what kind of all-season tires it had, but they were nothing special (maybe they were RFT, for all I remember). Anyway, it's just a calculated risk. If I were living or driving regularly in a less urban area, I'd almost certainly go for dedicated winter tires. And I might after this season, depending on how it goes.

Well, let me put it another way: the extra winter grip provided by winter tires is such a noticeable improvement over all-season tires that I'd rather not mess with all-seasons. Even if the all-season tires allow you to drive in winter, the winter tires are much more confidence-inspiring. My car is lowered so I'm not going to drive through a foot of snow, but for the random "oh great, it snowed 4-6 inches while I was at work and it's time to head home" snowfalls we get here in Madison, the winter tires are a big plus.

Summer tires are better in dry & wet than all-seasons. Winter tires are better in winter than all-seasons. A performance winter tire like for example the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 that I'm planning to put on my stock wheels has a rubber compound designed for cold temps, not just snow but also in dry and wet, and gives sporty handling in those temps although not up to the level of a summer performance tire during warmer weather.

With a floor jack it takes me maybe half an hour to swap out a set of wheels & tires in my garage. When I lived in an apartment, I kept whatever tires weren't on my car in the storage closet at the front of my underground garage parking space, and Discount Tire swaps your winter & summer wheel sets for free if you buy winter tires from them.

Yes there's a higher up front cost, but that's at least partially made up for by the fact that each set of tires is not getting a full year's worth of mileage every year.

I'd rather have the best tire for the season.

[maduroz]

My .02 cents from another post about tires is Don't get the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3. I had 235/45/17s square on my 335i xdrive and they didn't even last 20,000 miles with rotation every 6,000 miles and alignment. I know they are not going to last long on an AWD BMW but still. They do have a new AS3+ that's supposed to wear better and be better in snow. The AS3s were horrible in snow even when new. Again I know the whole dedicated winter tire deal.

I have a lot of bad roads to drive on and want to stay with 17" wheels. I went with the Conti DWS 06s this time in a 245/45/17 because I wanted a little wider tire and they fill the wheel gap more and a little extra cushion because xdrive suspension sucks. My speedo is only 2mph fast now as well. They are supposed to be better in snow and have a little better wear. I'm also going to try and rotate every 3,000 miles to see if that helps. They fit great on a 17x8 wheel. Any bigger you would want wider wheels.

I also agree completely with thakid22: Continental DWS should be sold with a warning stating that steering response, weight, and accuracy WILL BE DIMINISHED!!!!
They are quiet, smooth, long wearing, grip well in dry and damn good in the wet. Their snow traction is good too.

I have only been running the DWS 06s for about 500-1000 miles and it is so unnerving to turn the wheel and feel it fight you. Definitely doesn't instill confidence. Maybe it will go away, idk. For tire pressure they told me f-28 r-32. I've been running f-30 r-32. Maybe it's related to pressure, being brand new, being a 245/45/17 on a 17x8 wheel, which should be fine, or it's just the tire. I honestly think it's just the tire and don't know what to do. It's making me not enjoy driving my car. The AS3s had awesome turn in and response but had other issues. And I don't want my car riding any harder than it does on stock XI suspension so more air pressure scares me. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by maduroz

My .02 cents from another post about tires is Don't get the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3. I had 235/45/17s square on my 335i xdrive and they didn't even last 20,000 miles with rotation every 6,000 miles and alignment. I know they are not going to last long on an AWD BMW but still. They do have a new AS3+ that's supposed to wear better and be better in snow. The AS3s were horrible in snow even when new. Again I know the whole dedicated winter tire deal.

I have a lot of bad roads to drive on and want to stay with 17" wheels. I went with the Conti DWS 06s this time in a 245/45/17 because I wanted a little wider tire and they fill the wheel gap more and a little extra cushion because xdrive suspension sucks. My speedo is only 2mph fast now as well. They are supposed to be better in snow and have a little better wear. I'm also going to try and rotate every 3,000 miles to see if that helps. They fit great on a 17x8 wheel. Any bigger you would want wider wheels.

I also agree completely with thakid22: Continental DWS should be sold with a warning stating that steering response, weight, and accuracy WILL BE DIMINISHED!!!!
They are quiet, smooth, long wearing, grip well in dry and damn good in the wet. Their snow traction is good too.

I have only been running the DWS 06s for about 500-1000 miles and it is so unnerving to turn the wheel and feel it fight you. Definitely doesn't instill confidence. Maybe it will go away, idk. For tire pressure they told me f-28 r-32. I've been running f-30 r-32. Maybe it's related to pressure, being brand new, being a 245/45/17 on a 17x8 wheel, which should be fine, or it's just the tire. I honestly think it's just the tire and don't know what to do. It's making me not enjoy driving my car. The AS3s had awesome turn in and response but had other issues. And I don't want my car riding any harder than it does on stock XI suspension so more air pressure scares me. Any feedback would be appreciated.

AS3's come with 50k warranty. If yours lasted only 20k with regular rotation, then you need to call Michelin and ask them for a new set or refund. For staggered setup, they warrant the tire for 25k.

[maduroz]

I wish but they were worn on the inside edges so it voided the warranty. And it is for 45k.

[Shrike360]

I have the BFGs, had no problems getting them to balance. Got them for a steal of a price because of fanagaling a pepboys sale ($166 a tire for 255/35/18)

They work well as an all around tire, they do make a "sticky" noise if you have your windows down. My only comment is their aggressive driving performance seems to lose some feel (it could be because I have an xi, though). Get some heat into them (this is aggressive backroad driving) and I seem to lose a lot of feel. You turn hard, hear the tires squealing, feedback from the wheel seems to suggest the tires have washed out, but it still keeps turning and gripping. Other than that, like them the same as the previous A/S3s I had, even more because I switched to a square setup and reaping the handling benefits. Have about 2500 miles on them and still at 9/32" around.

I'm eventually going to get a second set of wheels, run Alpin PA4s on those, and switch this set over to an RE11 or equivalent. Figured these tires would make a fair compromise meanwhile.

Originally Posted by maduroz

I wish but they were worn on the inside edges so it voided the warranty. And it is for 45k.

lol you can't blame the tires when there was an obvious issue with your alignment.

[maduroz]

Lol, there wasn't an alignment issue. I had it aligned when I got the tires put on by a guy who only does alignments and suspension. It's basically part of the cost of owning an all wheel drive BMW. I doubt I'm the only one this has happened to and their cars probably weren't out of alignment either. And then I get the camber taken out so it drives like a Honda but my tires wear evenly. I guess I'll just buy tires. I'm not too upset about it. The pressure might have been a little low in the front which could have partially caused it. Get them and see what kind of mileage you get out of them. And it wasn't like the insides just wore out, the tread across the tire was at 4/32 and 3/32.

[W37V]

Originally Posted by maduroz

Lol, there wasn't an alignment issue. I had it aligned when I got the tires put on by a guy who only does alignments and suspension. It's basically part of the cost of owning an all wheel drive BMW. I doubt I'm the only one this has happened to and their cars probably weren't out of alignment either. And then I get the camber taken out so it drives like a Honda but my tires wear evenly. I guess I'll just buy tires. I'm not too upset about it. The pressure might have been a little low in the front which could have partially caused it. Get them and see what kind of mileage you get out of them. And it wasn't like the insides just wore out, the tread across the tire was at 4/32 and 3/32.

It doesn't sound like a tire issue either.

I have staggered setup on my RWD and rears lasted over 20k miles. They were very close to wear mark when I replaced them.

Even after 35k miles, the fronts look like there is still over 70% meat left on them.

I do my alignments at least once a year at BMW dealership (I wait for their pothole special where they have 4 wheel tire balancing and alignment for $169).

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by Shrike360

I have the BFGs, had no problems getting them to balance. Got them for a steal of a price because of fanagaling a pepboys sale ($166 a tire for 255/35/18)

They work well as an all around tire, they do make a "sticky" noise if you have your windows down. My only comment is their aggressive driving performance seems to lose some feel (it could be because I have an xi, though). Get some heat into them (this is aggressive backroad driving) and I seem to lose a lot of feel. You turn hard, hear the tires squealing, feedback from the wheel seems to suggest the tires have washed out, but it still keeps turning and gripping. Other than that, like them the same as the previous A/S3s I had, even more because I switched to a square setup and reaping the handling benefits. Have about 2500 miles on them and still at 9/32" around.

I'm eventually going to get a second set of wheels, run Alpin PA4s on those, and switch this set over to an RE11 or equivalent. Figured these tires would make a fair compromise meanwhile.

Comparing your AS3 to your BFG, was the AS3 steering response sharper by any significant amount? What about ride quality differences?

[maduroz]

Originally Posted by W37V

It doesn't sound like a tire issue either.

I have staggered setup on my RWD and rears lasted over 20k miles. They were very close to wear mark when I replaced them.

Even after 35k miles, the fronts look like there is still over 70% meat left on them.

I do my alignments at least once a year at BMW dealership (I wait for their pothole special where they have 4 wheel tire balancing and alignment for $169).

IDK. I run a square set up and have all wheel drive. I also rotated every 6,000 miles which is why I'm going to try 3,000 mile rotations to see if that helps. I'm also going to go and have the alignment and suspension all checked out.

And to be honest it really doesn't matter if they lasted 45k because I wouldn't have gotten them again due to how horrible they were in winter.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by maduroz

My .02 cents from another post about tires is Don't get the Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3. I had 235/45/17s square on my 335i xdrive and they didn't even last 20,000 miles with rotation every 6,000 miles and alignment. I know they are not going to last long on an AWD BMW but still. They do have a new AS3+ that's supposed to wear better and be better in snow. The AS3s were horrible in snow even when new. Again I know the whole dedicated winter tire deal.

I have a lot of bad roads to drive on and want to stay with 17" wheels. I went with the Conti DWS 06s this time in a 245/45/17 because I wanted a little wider tire and they fill the wheel gap more and a little extra cushion because xdrive suspension sucks. My speedo is only 2mph fast now as well. They are supposed to be better in snow and have a little better wear. I'm also going to try and rotate every 3,000 miles to see if that helps. They fit great on a 17x8 wheel. Any bigger you would want wider wheels.

I also agree completely with thakid22: Continental DWS should be sold with a warning stating that steering response, weight, and accuracy WILL BE DIMINISHED!!!!
They are quiet, smooth, long wearing, grip well in dry and damn good in the wet. Their snow traction is good too.

I have only been running the DWS 06s for about 500-1000 miles and it is so unnerving to turn the wheel and feel it fight you. Definitely doesn't instill confidence. Maybe it will go away, idk. For tire pressure they told me f-28 r-32. I've been running f-30 r-32. Maybe it's related to pressure, being brand new, being a 245/45/17 on a 17x8 wheel, which should be fine, or it's just the tire. I honestly think it's just the tire and don't know what to do. It's making me not enjoy driving my car. The AS3s had awesome turn in and response but had other issues. And I don't want my car riding any harder than it does on stock XI suspension so more air pressure scares me. Any feedback would be appreciated.

What was your issue with the AS3?

[vautrain]

Originally Posted by AtlasM

Well, let me put it another way: the extra winter grip provided by winter tires is such a noticeable improvement over all-season tires that I'd rather not mess with all-seasons...

I hear you, all very valid points. I'll try the BFG's this winter, and possibly switch to dedicated winter tires next season. Storage space isn't really a huge issue, but I'm not super excited to buy a whole other set of wheels.

I guess my other question is, how do winter tires do when it's dry? Because the roads are bone dry, here, a fair portion of the winter. I imagine it's much the same in Madison.

Great town, by the way. I love visiting Madison.

[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by vautrain

I hear you, all very valid points. I'll try the BFG's this winter, and possibly switch to dedicated winter tires next season. Storage space isn't really a huge issue, but I'm not super excited to buy a whole other set of wheels.

I guess my other question is, how do winter tires do when it's dry? Because the roads are bone dry, here, a fair portion of the winter. I imagine it's much the same in Madison.

Great town, by the way. I love visiting Madison.

In my experience, studless winter tires handle like glazed jelly donuts on dry roads, but give maximum snow traction. Performance winter tires do a decent approximation of the sportiness of a performance all-season tire on dry roads, but aren't quite as good in deep snow as studless winters. Both of them can introduce a bit of humming noise but nothing major.

For a sporty awd car, a performance winter tire will still be a huge upgrade over a UHP all-season tire when it comes to winter traction. Really the biggest area where you see improvement is braking. Much easier to avoid the "oh shit now I gotta stand on the brakes and let ABS do its thing while I hope I don't slide through this stop sign" type moments.

Another thing to consider is if you sell your car and your winter tires still have life in them, you can sell them to someone. When I got rid of my Mazdaspeed 6 that I had a couple cars ago, I sold it with the summer wheels/tires on it, and then afterward I sold the stock wheels with snow tires on them to another MS6 owner for $500 for the set.

[maduroz]

Originally Posted by thakid22

What was your issue with the AS3?

With the AS3 I really liked the turn in and performance as far as corner grip in dry or wet weather. They really stuck. But once the temps got cold they were a little sketchy and God forbid you're on ice or snow good luck stopping or trying to turn. It was scary and this was when they were brand new. The guy at DT told me they would be good in snow so I tried them. I live in Wisconsin so ideally I should be running a dedicated winter set. I guess I'm too lazy to spend the money. And then not lasting. About 17,000 miles with alignment and balance every time they were rotated at 6000 miles. Like I said before, it's not like I just fried the inside edges. The tread across was at 4/32 and 3/32 so regardless it would have been tough to get much more than 20000 miles out of them. DT said many people have been complaining that they aren't lasting. Maybe the new AS3+ is somewhat better but I probably won't go back. They also started to get noisy towards the end. Again maybe it's just my BMW.

[Shrike360]

Originally Posted by thakid22

Comparing your AS3 to your BFG, was the AS3 steering response sharper by any significant amount? What about ride quality differences?

Hard to say if it was any sharper. Both ride about the same. I went from a 225/255 to a 255 square setup, so that was the biggest thing I noticed. Though I will say stock xi suspension really can't handle that much tire in front.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by maduroz

Lol, there wasn't an alignment issue. I had it aligned when I got the tires put on by a guy who only does alignments and suspension. It's basically part of the cost of owning an all wheel drive BMW. I doubt I'm the only one this has happened to and their cars probably weren't out of alignment either. And then I get the camber taken out so it drives like a Honda but my tires wear evenly. I guess I'll just buy tires. I'm not too upset about it. The pressure might have been a little low in the front which could have partially caused it. Get them and see what kind of mileage you get out of them. And it wasn't like the insides just wore out, the tread across the tire was at 4/32 and 3/32.

What do you mean when you say you got the camber taken out and now it drives like a Honda?

[maduroz]

Originally Posted by thakid22

What do you mean when you say you got the camber taken out and now it drives like a Honda?

What I meant was IF I made the camber less negative making it more neutral so it doesn't wear the insides as much it would handle like a Honda. And you really can't adjust front camber much without camber plates so they sometimes will add more toe in which can also contribute to inside tire wear. It's also a DD so I'm not spending the money in camber plates and all that.

[Fundguy1]

Got 2 A/S3 for my backup car, ford focus, aND getting two more. I got them over max summer because it doesn't need the extra handling grip of a pss but extra wet traction and mileage is welcome. Very happy with them so far.

[brick295]

I can vouch for the General GMAX AS-03's. I have now had them on my old BMW (2001 330i, RWD) and my new BMW (2008 335xi, AWD) and they are amazing tires for the price. I found out about them through an article in a car magazine where they tested them against a bunch of high end tires on sports cars and the General's held their own and outperformed most of the expensive brands.

From personal experience, I can tell you they had NO ISSUES handling the snow in Syracuse NY when they were on my rear wheel drive 330i with manual transmission. To the guy worried about the occasional 4-6" in Madison, Wisconsin... you shouldn't be worried about that even if you had junk all seasons. However, with the GMAX AS-03, you would have no issues whatsoever with that kind of snow. 4-6" of lake effect snow was a normal thing to wake up to in the mornings in Syracuse, with 12"+ while you're at work being a not-rare occurrence. I worked in a law firm where us attorneys weren't allowed to leave no matter how much snow had fallen and I never had an issue with them on my RWD 330i. If you are really worried about it, throw 2 bags of rock salt in your trunk for the winter and you'll be good to go with the added weight in the rear.

I have not had the noise issues described in this thread even though I've been through multiple sets now.

They do great in wet weather as well, especially with standing water. Before I put the GMAX AS-03's on the 335xi, I would hydroplane all the time with the stock Continental run-flats. With the GMAX you can feel the tires grab hold as you go through standing water and you are fine even at high speeds.

I honestly can't say enough about these tires, as they look really nice as well, especially when you can see the super-aggressive looking tread pattern on them. It makes the 335 look 10x sportier than the boring ContiProContacts and they cost like 1/2 the price or less.

[AtlasM]

Originally Posted by brick295

To the guy worried about the occasional 4-6" in Madison, Wisconsin... you shouldn't be worried about that even if you had junk all seasons.

I think you're misunderstanding my preference.

It's not that I think all-season tires are incapable of driving in the snow, it's that I know from experience that winter tires are better than all-seasons in the snow, and summer tires are better than all-seasons the rest of the year.

If you only want one set of wheels tires and don't want to be bothered with switching, or don't want to spend the money, or whatever other reasons, then by all means get all-seasons and run them year round. That's just not my preference.

Rather than all-season tires on the stock wheels year-round, for the majority of the year I have much better looking 19" wheels that are lighter than stock with much grippier summer tires, and then for the winter months I have winter tires on my stock wheels.

[John 070]

I use Kumho 4XII's on my Nissan. But imho our E9x's deserve summer and winter tires, not a/s.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by AtlasM

I think you're misunderstanding my preference.

It's not that I think all-season tires are incapable of driving in the snow, it's that I know from experience that winter tires are better than all-seasons in the snow, and summer tires are better than all-seasons the rest of the year.

If you only want one set of wheels tires and don't want to be bothered with switching, or don't want to spend the money, or whatever other reasons, then by all means get all-seasons and run them year round. That's just not my preference.

Rather than all-season tires on the stock wheels year-round, for the majority of the year I have much better looking 19" wheels that are lighter than stock with much grippier summer tires, and then for the winter months I have winter tires on my stock wheels.

There used to be a time when people would not mix tires, if you wanted snows you had to get all 4, refuse to mount non RFT on a car that came with RFT, refuse to not install tpms, etc. Today, it's all about money. Even a dealership sells all season tires, they don't care, it's profit....how can a BMW perform well on a/s....well, many do not care so I guess it's not our job to lecture anyone...