[Skoidat69]

Don't do I need to buy any other parts to utilize this tune? I'm not going to get headers due to the headache of going through emissions but 5-10hp more than my current 328-330 tune would be awesome.

[neilvan]

Nope^^ The no-maf tune technically works on the stock MAF (uses the IAT inside it and the MAP sensor that the car has separately). Changing to the factory euro IAT sensor may be a bit more of an upgrade as it reduces the air stream restriction.

My brother has it on his 328 and it works fantastic; Hopefully eventually there's enough demand to make it for my N52 530i as well

[Skoidat69]

Originally Posted by neilvan

Nope^^ The no-maf tune technically works on the stock MAF (uses the IAT inside it and the MAP sensor that the car has separately). Changing to the factory euro IAT sensor may be a bit more of an upgrade as it reduces the air stream restriction.

My brother has it on his 328 and it works fantastic; Hopefully eventually there's enough demand to make it for my N52 530i as well

Does he still have cruise control?
I already have the 328 to 330 from Bimmerlabs so I have find out if I have run RSAdelete again ?

[hassmaschine]

you only need to unlock the DME once.

[Skoidat69]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you only need to unlock the DME once.

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

you only need to unlock the DME once.

So I have forum member help me next week flash the GM912 software.. is it safe to do this at same time? I have 2007 328xi so what are the odds of loosing cruise control

[eurocarfan100]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yeah, tuning doesn't work that way at all. For one, N52s make less power if you make them rich - not more. below 13.3-13.5:1 AFR (which is the stock 330i WOT fuel curve, BTW), you lose power quickly. BMW actually dumps fuel with the stock tune at high RPM to protect the cats (the tune doesn't eliminate this but it reduces it by about half), which kills top end power. Plus the rest of the tune is nerfed, it's actually pretty easy to increase power, and it's not just AF tuning (actually, almost none of the fuel maps are altered from stock).

this is the stock 330i WOT fuel curve:


The tune basically just flattens that to 13.5 across the board, since I dynod my own car and found it didn't like anything more than that. The 325i/328i run at nearly 15:1 at WOT, do not even open the valves all the way, have gimpy throttle response and reduced torque targets, etc. etc. gee I wonder why the stock N52s are so slow..

I noticed one problem with the MAFless tune for me at cold starts, the rpm fluctuates and kinda feels rough but gets better after that. Hope there is no air leaks or anything or if that's normal. The 330i stock tune didn't exactly do that. Do I need to upgrade to a Euro IAT or its just normal?

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Skoidat69

So I have forum member help me next week flash the GM912 software.. is it safe to do this at same time? I have 2007 328xi so what are the odds of loosing cruise control

There's no GM912 software! I took that down a year ago and haven't had time to put anything back up. All that is there is a stock flash, don't even try to flash it!

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by eurocarfan100

I noticed one problem with the MAFless tune for me at cold starts, the rpm fluctuates and kinda feels rough but gets better after that. Hope there is no air leaks or anything or if that's normal. The 330i stock tune didn't exactly do that. Do I need to upgrade to a Euro IAT or its just normal?

I've never experienced it myself. but the MSV80 DME is a little different. There might be some cold start maps that neeed bumped up a bit. But I don't know anyone local with a 328i to test that with.

[Skoidat69]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

There's no GM912 software! I took that down a year ago and haven't had time to put anything back up. All that is there is a stock flash, don't even try to flash it!

Ok, so what I'm seeing in BL account is below and you are saying DO NOT mess it!

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by nsjames

does the cruise control work in the mafless tune now?

It's been working so well I may as well monkey with it again.

Never had any issues with cruise and I’m running mafless tune

[E92_William]

Originally Posted by Skoidat69

So I have forum member help me next week flash the GM912 software.. is it safe to do this at same time? I have 2007 328xi so what are the odds of loosing cruise control

On a 2007 328xi the 3.0si transmission file should work perfectly fine. Works on mine which is 08. Idk if it's fully taken down because many people have downloaded it since

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Skoidat69

Ok, so what I'm seeing in BL account is below and you are saying DO NOT mess it!

It says it's "stock" in the heading (I want to make this more clear I think). You *could* flash it but there's zero benefit to doing so, and messing up will leave your car undrivable.

[Skoidat69]

I mentioned this tune to my mechanic and he was wondering what factory cars it's based off of.. I said I though it was some Euro model

His thoughts:

A mafless tune will not run as smooth all the time or be as efficient.
The Mafless tune will only make more power under a set of perfect parameters. Out side those parameters you have an less efficient tune. Weather is one of those parameters.

And what are y'all's thoughts ?

[JonOhh]

Originally Posted by Skoidat69

I mentioned this tune to my mechanic and he was wondering what factory cars it's based off of.. I said I though it was some Euro model

His thoughts:

A mafless tune will not run as smooth all the time or be as efficient.
The Mafless tune will only make more power under a set of perfect parameters. Out side those parameters you have an less efficient tune. Weather is one of those parameters.

And what are y'all's thoughts ?

On a complex modern ecu, this could be said for a completely made from scratch aftermarket MAFless tune. However, the Bimmerlabs MAFless tune is mostly directly from bmws own MAFless N52 tune which is used in europe thus, it's just as refined as any other tune, maf or not.

[JonOhh]

Originally Posted by eurocarfan100

I noticed one problem with the MAFless tune for me at cold starts, the rpm fluctuates and kinda feels rough but gets better after that. Hope there is no air leaks or anything or if that's normal. The 330i stock tune didn't exactly do that. Do I need to upgrade to a Euro IAT or its just normal?

Does it do it if you have AC off when you start? The only time I've had a not flawless startup is when the ac compressor load isn't what the dme thinks. If I start with the AC off, it's always perfect.


My 330i most definitely isn't running how it should be, but it never has any startup or run issues that it didn't have before the MAFless tune, so something isn't right.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Skoidat69

I mentioned this tune to my mechanic and he was wondering what factory cars it's based off of.. I said I though it was some Euro model

His thoughts:

A mafless tune will not run as smooth all the time or be as efficient.
The Mafless tune will only make more power under a set of perfect parameters. Out side those parameters you have an less efficient tune. Weather is one of those parameters.

And what are y'all's thoughts ?

This kind of agrees with that Bob @ StageFP told me when I asked him about swapping from his MAF tune to a MAFless one. He said he wouldn’t do it on his own car it’s going to not run great in all conditions. He said you might gain a few HP but the drivability would be negatively impacted. So in the end he talked me out of it even though he was willing to make (and charge me for) the tune if I still wanted it.

[Skoidat69]

@hassmaschine

Is the MAFless tune a fair weather tune i.e when the conditions are right, it's on but otherwise things are off a touch.. What BMW factory tune is it derived from?

[marvinstockman]

Hass, 13.5 is running rich.

Modern cars try and stay at 14.7 under most all conditions to reduce emissions.

[JonOhh]

Isn't he talking about WOT though? 13.5 is pretty normal for WOT.

Of course, by definition, anything below 14.7 is "rich" but rich and lean are relative. A turbo motor running 14.0:1 at full boost is very, very lean- not by definition (or stoichiometry rather) but in practice.


My Abarth sure as hell doesn't run 14.7. Some dip into the 10s and LOWER under full boost on stock tune (although the later revision tunes do not). It's not necessary to go that rich at all, that's actually too much.

[E92_William]

You have to keep in mind that while 14.7 is ideal on paper. You have to add more fuel to make more power, the amount you get at 14.7 certainly isn't as ideal. Also some fuel goes to cooling the combustion process and preventing knock depending on your IATs and timing

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Skoidat69

I mentioned this tune to my mechanic and he was wondering what factory cars it's based off of.. I said I though it was some Euro model

His thoughts:

A mafless tune will not run as smooth all the time or be as efficient.
The Mafless tune will only make more power under a set of perfect parameters. Out side those parameters you have an less efficient tune. Weather is one of those parameters.

And what are y'all's thoughts ?

he's a mechanic. Not a tuner or a software engineer. I dare say, he doesn't know anything about how an MSV70 or MSV80 DME works. I haven't run a MAF in 6 years on my 330i. And yes, they came that way from the factory. It's perfectly smooth and just as efficient. It's not like it's running in open loop or something (and it's NOT alpha-N).

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by marvinstockman

Hass, 13.5 is running rich.

Modern cars try and stay at 14.7 under most all conditions to reduce emissions.

No. Sorry, but you are speaking from ignorance. At WOT, you need more fuel. The *stock* 330i fuel curve at WOT is 13.5:1. I posted it above - the only modifications I did was to lean it out at higher RPM, because BMW dumps fuel to cool the cats (and at 12.5:1, power is reduced).

The normal load fuel maps are left as stock. And it's not always exactly 14.7:1 - sometimes it's leaner, sometimes it's richer. It depends on a lot of things - drivability, reliability, emissions, etc. If it was always supposed to be at exactly 14.7:1 and never waver, 3D fuel mapping wouldn't exist.