[roman_s]

Was searching eBay because I a bored and came around this ecu mod....

What the hell is it doing?? how is it adjusting the performance from the ECU? I understand BMS tuning chips that customize the timing of throtlle power etc... but what does this one do??

Below link doesn't work, so I made a short like : http://bit.ly/dhApbx

http://cgi.ebay.ca/BMW-New-Fully-ADJUSTABLE-Performance-chip-increase-HP-/320568883996?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Part s_Accessories&fits=Make%3ABMW|Model%3A325i|Year%3A 2006&hash=item4aa364fb1c[/URL]

[roman_s]

check this vendor as well
http://www.performancechipsdirect.com/BMW/3-Series-4Dr/

What are they doing to make it so much cheaper then for example bms powerbox

[5erman]

Nothing-that is the powerbox minus the throttle settings. Fortunately the best thing about the bms is the throttle settings otherwise if your happy with the throttle settings than this is a WAY better way to go for 65 bucks-it is doing identical things- (assumingn its richening the mixture and not leaning it out which would probably create more power but at a risk to the engine if your advancing sparktiming)

Assuming it is richening the mix and advancing-that is the same as a bms-bms can charge whatever cause there are no other options that come in a chip-until now!

[SV Concepts II]

I wouldn't put that in my car as a tune if you paid me to. Just my 2 cents.

With tried/true tunes such as that from BMS, comes with their technical support and months/years of R&D testing as well.

[BlackBimmer1991]

Actually I bought http://bit.ly/dhApbx a while ago and never had it installed. If anyone is willing to take the chance ill sell it to them for cheap.

[deanmc]

Don't buy this crap. It's usually a .05 cent resistor soldered in a plastic box. Do a search on google for "performance chip scam" and see what comes up. The one in the ebay link looks like a verified scam. See here, scroll to the bottom right: http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.yahoo.net/recsc.html

That link is from a competitor "performance chip", but I believe they are all garbage.

[Wlew]

Definitely a scam or a quick sale. you also couldn't pay me to put a 65 dollar chip in my BMW... part of the problem with modding our car is its expensive... aftermarket product from reputable companies are expensive... but they work and are specifically made for ours cars... this site doesn't even look legit. A $65 chip in a $20-40K car..... well, yall do the thinking...

Id hate for someone to try it and it mess their engine up or something... go with BMS, they are trusted and proven.

[mike-y]

in theory, this could do similar things as a bmx, but in practice, it's usually not that easy. It's basically going in-line with a sensor and the computer to trick the DME into thinking there is more air going into the motor, so it dumps in more fuel. It might work if it's calibrated perfectly, but if it's not, you could run way to rich or way too lean.

The bmx is tuned specifically for the N52. This little box is just designed to alter a signal, regardless of what car it goes in, (it's a "one size fits all" application) so it will need some careful adjustment to get it to work properly (assuming that it works at all). If you have access to free dyno time, you might be able to get this to work (looks like it has an adjustment knob on it), but even then, it may not be consistent throughout the rpm range, and it's "always on" regardless of throttle position, which can cause other issues.

So unless you really know how the DME works, and what altering the IAT signal does, and have access to a dyno to test this thing, it's better left alone.

[E90 87ss]

considering they sell electric superchargers... It's pretty much junk...

[c_jeong89]

Originally Posted by Cal@Jlevi SW

I wouldn't put that in my car as a tune if you paid me to. Just my 2 cents.

With tried/true tunes such as that from BMS, comes with their technical support and months/years of R&D testing as well.

+1. But I would put it in my car for $50k then just buy a new 335i after if something goes wrong

[belixxx]

These piggy back "tunes" on na engines are usually a resistor, inline with the coolant temperaure sensor. This tricks the ECU into thinking the engine is cooler than it is. This results in a bit richer air fuel ratio, and said to cause a few degrees of ignition advance. The truth is that on many cars it doesn't really cause ignition advance, but causes less ignition retard from knock detection, if any exists. So on an N52 you will gain some ignition advance on 91 octane fuel, but none on 93. This might also be the reason that the BMS powerbox is reported to actually decrease power when used with Shell V-Power here in europe (it has the AKI octane of min.94).
The same result can be duplicated if you measured the resistance of the coolant sensor with cold engine, than put in a potmeter and turn it until you get the same reading with a hot engine. That's about it.

[roman_s]

Awesome discussion.. ps. never was I thinking in putting these in..

Just curious to see if our e90 enthusiasts think about these..

Someone referenced Volo Performance chips where they point out other chip's scam, so I thought What about Volo Performance chips themselves??


for example their
VP12 Performance Chip?? its $89.99

The VP12 is a vehicle specific, custom programmed 20MHz Microcontroller. It utilizes its high speed serial input/output to communicate directly with the ECU through the OBD-II port. Inside your ECU is a 3-dimensional table of values called a map. This table tells your fuel injectors exactly how much fuel to deliver given current air temperature, density, engine speed, throttle position, and other variables. From the factory, this map is generic and designed to provide a sluggish, no-surprises style of driving to suit a wide range of drivers. The VP12 temporarily replaces parts of this map with parts from our highly tuned performance maps, and will safely unleash you engine's full potential, without voiding the warranty.

Is this the right one for my engine?
The VP12 has room for up to 8 performance maps...etc..
http://yhst-19807630266082.stores.ya...ance-ch12.html

I entered my stats into their HP gain calculator 215HP/6,250RPM and said it would increase my HP by 17 and torque by 14.28 ... WTF??

OK so I entered additional mods Here are the results:

[5erman]

Guys this is the EXACT same as a bms-bms is a resistor did you not know this? resistor that changes the cars inputs to the car-the box takes the inputs, modifies them with a resistor and that sends a new signal back to the computer-it is ALL a resistor. This may not have the exact same resistance and thus the changes may not be the same but the concept is and quite honestly the result would be too-as long as the resistance is in line with making the a/f richer and the spark timing a bit advanced as it does say-

I am willing to bet any money this would offer the same couple hp gains the bms does-of course it doesnt address throttle response.

Nice to see everyone is brainwashed into thinking the bms is something more than a resistor in a box

[roman_s]

BMS Powerbox vs. VP12 chips what are different, what are the same.. outside of the obvious 8-level programming vs 10 etc..

[roman_s]

Just curious how exactly does the BMS powerbox address the throttle delay?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

LOL those are air intake temperature sensor scams. Been around for ages. They do nothing and in the N52 throw codes as soon as you cut the IAT wire. The PBX like any legitimate piggyback is an microcontroller reading and dynamically altering several signals going to and from the ECU.

Mike

[belixxx]

I think they are rather coolant temperature sensor "scams". At least that is where we have been putting potmeters in the old ages around here. However should there be a microcontroller with an input line from the CTS sensor, or a fix resistor, or a variable resistor (potmeter) in line with it, doesn't really matter at all. Other than leading the people knowing nothing about the stuff to believe that:
"the one with the sophisticated microcontroller must give more power."

And no, putting in a resistor that tells the engine that coolant temperature is 150F instead of 200F, doesn't produce any fault codes. Nor any true hp gain if using the max octane gas, you have ignition maps for.

[roman_s]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=3607655

for the VP12. . seems like our friends at 5 didnt have any luck

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by 5erman

Guys this is the EXACT same as a bms-bms is a resistor did you not know this? resistor that changes the cars inputs to the car-the box takes the inputs, modifies them with a resistor and that sends a new signal back to the computer-it is ALL a resistor. This may not have the exact same resistance and thus the changes may not be the same but the concept is and quite honestly the result would be too-as long as the resistance is in line with making the a/f richer and the spark timing a bit advanced as it does sa

the problem with these is that the resister modifies an input signal that goes to the computer and that's it. It hopes the computer compensates in a way that produces more hp, but it may not. in fact, depending on how the computer works, it may actually be retarding timing until full operating temp is reached. On top of that, WOT usually triggers open-loop operation, which causes the computer to ignore most inputs and run on a pre-set fuel/timing map while only listening for knock.

BMS modifies the computer output, so there is much better control over what happens at WOT. There is more going on than just a resister.

[belixxx]

Originally Posted by mike-y

the problem with these is that the resister modifies an input signal that goes to the computer and that's it. It hopes the computer compensates in a way that produces more hp, but it may not. in fact, depending on how the computer works, it may actually be retarding timing until full operating temp is reached. On top of that, WOT usually triggers open-loop operation, which causes the computer to ignore most inputs and run on a pre-set fuel/timing map while only listening for knock.

BMS modifies the computer output, so there is much better control over what happens at WOT. There is more going on than just a resister.

Hey,
As far as I know:
-with the MSV70@WOT the computer stays in closed loop all the time.
-in older cars, which do switch to open loop, being in open loop usually means ignoring the lambda circuit. The CTS however is usually not ignored.
-You are the first one I have heard from that the BMS modifies OUTPUT signals. Everybody else has been talking about input signals. The installation manual of the BMS powerbox clearly shows which wires to connect to. If anyone can find out what those are, the debate will be over and we'll see clearly.

[5erman]

dude by the very notion that you are "modifying input signals" that inevitably modifies "output signals"

If for example AB goes int othe box and the box "modifies the input-which is AB " to ABC. Then the output is not ABC and by definition the "output is modified"

THe ECU at WOT runs in open loop BUT still adds in the LTFT numbers-so while not using the o2 sensors to feedback and adjust the a/f mixture, the mixture is set to a certain factor for WOT (rnning open) and whatever LTFT had been established up to that point is applied. So say your LTFT is 20percent from the norm. That 20 percent is added in at WOT to the set levels.

All WOT runs in open mode-WOT happens to fast to use feedback from o2 sensors to adjust for this-there is no system that does not run open loop at WOT with ltft adjustments "locked" in-they dont further adjust during this WOT time-it uses the last ltft measurement right prior to the wot.

This is why the "learning" period comes in and you have to drive a couple hundred miles before realizing the effects because ultimately you have to modify the LTFT in the direction of the tune-adding more fuel and timing in the LTFT-that is how the tuning process works even though wot runs in open mode. WIthout it taking the ltft into account at wot, you could not chip tune

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by 5erman

dude by the very notion that you are "modifying input signals" that inevitably modifies "output signals"

If for example AB goes int othe box and the box "modifies the input-which is AB " to ABC. Then the output is not ABC and by definition the "output is modified"

THe ECU at WOT runs in open loop BUT still adds in the LTFT numbers-so while not using the o2 sensors to feedback and adjust the a/f mixture, the mixture is set to a certain factor for WOT (rnning open) and whatever LTFT had been established up to that point is applied. So say your LTFT is 20percent from the norm. That 20 percent is added in at WOT to the set levels.

All WOT runs in open mode-WOT happens to fast to use feedback from o2 sensors to adjust for this-there is no system that does not run open loop at WOT with ltft adjustments "locked" in-they dont further adjust during this WOT time-it uses the last ltft measurement right prior to the wot.

This is why the "learning" period comes in and you have to drive a couple hundred miles before realizing the effects because ultimately you have to modify the LTFT in the direction of the tune-adding more fuel and timing in the LTFT-that is how the tuning process works even though wot runs in open mode. WIthout it taking the ltft into account at wot, you could not chip tune

The N52 runs closed loop fuel during WOT with its factory wideband sensors, and the PBX among other things alters the signal going from the wideband back to the ECU to remap the air/fuel ratios at part and WOT throttle based on RPM and load.

Mike