[spirocheter]

I've searched this topic prior to posting and not found anything that corresponds. I have an e90, 335d 2008 M Sport, 58K miles. All standard including tyres as PS2 ZPs.

Less than 12 months ago (bought pads last September via Ebay / Euro Car Parts though didn't fit until about one month later).

I wanted to get as close to OE spec as possible without purchasing BMW discs, hence I chose Pagid discs and instead of the Textar pads, I went with Pagid ones, assuming this combination should be optimised (same disc / pad manufacturer). From what I read at the time Pagid were the OEM supplier.

(As a point aside, BMW had recommended changing the pads and discs at an MOT, though my mechanic said the old discs had plenty of life left, though the pads did need changing).... perhaps not a surprise. Obviously my local dealers quote for a service and changing discs and pads all around was very high. I chose to have the service done through the main dealer (through a price compare against another dealer via maindealerdiscount.com) and have the discs and pads done locally.

Said pads and discs were fitted and no problems, until a few weeks ago when the dreaded brake judder was noticed. We were on holiday in Germany at the time, which involved short stints on the autobahn largely around the 100mph mark, not an unduly fast speed and not with any sustained light braking nor any harsh braking, nor were there any abrupt cooling times etc with brakes applied.

The local mechanic who fitted the brakes measured the brakes runout yesterday with no variance, suggesting they had not warped. What he did find, were the discs were worn unevenly. Closer to the centre of the disc, the discs had worn more, than closer to the rim. He thought this might be a problem associated with manufacture.

I have emailed ECP via Ebay (going from the item number I had purchased), to see if there is any recourse for refund / replacement. I've not heard back yet, though it was only 20hrs ago so far.

My mechanic gave me three options to replace with varying qualities suggested by his supplier. I opted for the most expensive option, which in this case was Brembo discs and pads (assuming these are a recognised name for performance and good quality). Assuming there are no other problems, I would like to keep my vehicle, since it has been well maintained.

Forgive me for this getting long winded

My mechanic suggested I could buy the parts myself probably cheaper than around the £300 his supplier was quoting for the parts. I searched on Ebay and found items matching the description of 335d saloon e90 2008. Here's the odd bit, I then enter further details under the search bar and it says vehicle not compatible. So I contact the Ebay supplier eParts, but despite several attempts no answer and my calls are not returned. Clearly a cr@p outfit, so moved on to the next most expensive listing around £233 All Car Parts, got through straight away. The lady I spoke to asked for the vehicle registration and suggested I measure the pads.

Given that the pads are non-standard, this obviously raised the question whether the Pagid pads were indeed correct (though I remember being very detail oriented when ordering checking part numbers etc on ECP website etc).

The lady said there were two variants for my vehicle!? (despite giving the registration and model / year etc)

1. P06036 height 63.5mm; width 154.7mm
2. P0604s height 68.4mm; width 155.1mm

So I got back to my mechanic and advised to order the Brembo pad and disc combo offered by the supplier! So in trying to save money, it's cost a lot of time and confusion. I figure if I have any problem from the mechanics supplier (I think GSF), they can then replace.

I understand Pagid have a guarantee of 25months and 25K miles, as of 2013. We'll see about this. I guess there is also the question whether they were right in the first place. At least there was no problem with them being fit and with the performance for the first several months.

I drive my car moderately, sometimes in a spirited manner, though as you might expect for a 335d. As I've said it is not modified in any way, completely standard (I was originally keeping the extended warranty going up until the point of the brake discs needing replacement and seeing the astronomical amount the dealer was charging). Makes me wonder now whether I should have just swallowed the extra cost and kept the warranty going

It has got that nasty niggling thought of whether I should change the car, though I suspect I'd be looking at a brand new replacement which is a bridge a little too far for me presently.

[AlanYoro35i]

Wait, so you have so brake juddering and you wouldn't pay for a bmw part but thinking of buying a new car for it?

Did you know you can buy bmw parts and get it fitted by your indy? Harry fairburn website offer 15% off and free delivery on genuine parts.

With pagid, there are a few people here said they had brake juddering and in the end they replaced it and it was fine.

[spirocheter]

I didn't know I could get a discount on genuine parts, thanks for this ... if I'd known, I'd certainly have gone down this route in the first place.

I miss having my warranty, I know it does make sense talking about buying a new car. I guess this ties in with my interest in the adaptive damping. I like the idea of a more compliant car but couldn't bring myself to buy Mercedes (IMHO they're horrible to drive unless AMG etc). I have been considering changing some other things like dampers, changing wheels so I can use Michelin PSS (you can't get them to fit standard staggered 18" rims) ... which then gets me thinking, why don't I just change the whole car rather than invest a lot of money for which I'll see absolutely no return. There are some good deals on new cars via brokers and I do like the peace of mind of a warranty. I just don't have the time to be messing around taking my car backwards and forwards from the garage.

[AlanYoro35i]

Sorry, i ran 19" staggered wheels with PSS. You are just finding excuses to buy a new car in which case we can't help you. Warranty does not cover any dampers, springs , brakes, exhuast and many other parts. So i guess even you have warranty , it won't do you any good?

There is also bmw warranty which you can pay for, if you have alot of enginr problem then its worth buying.

[spirocheter]

Thanks Yori, your advice certainly makes perfect sense.... it is kind of what I wanted to hear really. My thought processes regarding buying a new car are entirely illogical and I probably should have kept this out of the post (when most people change their cars, the reasons are often dubious)!

I still love the car - it is smooth, quick and economical. A new car obviously improves on these aspects, though it would not be cost effective.

You are quite right, these items would not be under the warranty anyway. I had bought the car as approved BMW having managed somehow to buy at a reasonable price from the dealer (end of September 2011) the extended warranty following on from this.

The quote from my local dealer was astronomical for the brake replacement and I researched trying to buy OE quality for much less money. You've very usefully informed me I can buy OEM without involving my main dealer. I think the Brembo discs and pads should be of higher quality than the OEM kit, though obviously they're not going to give me any more power.

The other reason for my post, was to see if anyone had similar issues with Pagid. Euro Car Parts have offered for me to return the brakes (my cost for courier) to be inspected as to whether there is a warranty claim. I don't know whether I'm wasting my time and money doing this (so any tips here would be gratefully received).

I am interested in this issue of juddering also with no apparent warping, but uneven wear depending on the distance from the centre of the wheel.

[zltm089]

I heard other people got similar issues with Pagid.

I only suggestion would be to make sure you get the correct part number and don't just rely on one source of info.

[spirocheter]

Originally Posted by zltm089

I heard other people got similar issues with Pagid.

I only suggestion would be to make sure you get the correct part number and don't just rely on one source of info.

I believe discs and pads are one of the most difficult items to get correct when ordering. I can recall checking and double checking previously! I had found others with problems with Pagid when I did a search, I was hoping somebody with similar difficulties might elaborate on how their experience played out, especially in light of warranty issues.

Ordering BMW OEM obviously the way to go, if I'd known, though I think I should be fine with Brembo.

I'd even read something along the lines of Pagid now being owned by EuroCarParts, who I think are now an American company. Whether this has affected the manufacturing process would be the question, they have previously had a superb reputation. I saw Zimmerman for sale on Ebay from Germany, though I've found comments posted in respect of avoiding.

I did briefly consider a brake upgrade / BBK AP ...Racing would be the first choice, though the cost for this is considerable and I don't track the car so it would probably be pointless.

(I had remapped my first 335d and regretted not having done any other upgrades, chiefly the brakes first, next on the list would have been tyres, then an LSD before any remap ... where do you stop and start with all this though).

[qa15ar]

put pagid pads in my e90, after a few weeks got the judder... ending up changing the disks and pads to apec ones from my local motor factors place.... no problems at all not even a speak.... used them before in audis/mercs never a problem.

anyways arent pagid OEM parts???

[spirocheter]

I thought Pagid were the OE supplier, but no reported problems with BMW OEM which would suggest not, certainly not at present (only BMW stamped items with part numbers are OEM).

Did you get a refund on your Pagid discs?

[AlanYoro35i]

Return them if you can? Alot of people had problems with pagid from ecp.
If you struggle and are looking for oem, try realoem.com and find the correct part number for your car.

[spirocheter]

Thanks Yoro.

It'll cost me the price of a courier, with no guarantee of getting a refund .... you know how often companies seem to get out of refunds, with arguments primed to go!

I'll be sure to post what the outcome is (whether I send them back and if I do whether they / ECP provide a refund). The claim form I've received has a claim for labour (not seen anything about courier costs). It might be worth a punt.

[spirocheter]

Outcome / 335d Pagid discs and pads from Eurocarparts

I thought it was important if anyone searches this topic, to learn the outcome of my venture into trying to source OE parts. My research which despite being quite extensive was cleared flawed. I had read information which indicated Pagid were supplying BMW with discs, and that Textar were supplying pads (for OEM equipment).

I contacted Euro Car Parts to request a refund, they advertise there is a 2yr, 20K mile warranty, but it turns out as often is the case with these warranties, to have been very carefully written. Since (just) over 12 months had elapsed, they could not offer any warranty on my brakes, since the garage (my local mechanic) had not registered the fitting at the time with the warranty scheme.

I decided to buy (the most expensive) Pagid pads and discs all around for my 335d. BMW had quoted some £1800 at a discounted price for service and replacement of discs at my local Rybrook dealer. If my memory serves me correctly, this was their discounted price. It was the 'big service', my car having reached 47K miles.

At the time I had an extended warranty and I made the decision based on the very expensive workshop quote to discontinue the warranty and try and source the best quality discs and pads I could find and have these fitted in place, yet have the service done with Rybrook / Shrewsbury / main dealer.

A well trusted local mechanic fitted the discs and pads. There were fitted for less than 10K miles before my problems started. It was in Germany whilst travelling at autobahn speeds, ie 100 - 110mph I first noticed the judder. I had the family on board and the braking was gradual and there were no fast stops. I did not park with the handbrake on shortly after stopping etc. I've never pushed the brakes on my current 335d to the point of fade. My previous 335d was remapped to 350PS and I frequently had brake fade, but never had warped discs.

I did have OEM brakes warp on an e46 330d, which followed emergency braking just prior to an accident (I was hit by another driver who tried but failed to overtake a lorry)! This was obviously violent braking, followed by the vehicle being stationary. I had a really bad experience with Rybrook BMW who took several weeks to repair the damage. When I received the car back, the discs were warped but I was told this was nothing to do with the accident! Also, the car had to be returned several times to the dealer and never seemed right, prompting me to trade it in. It also lost me confidence in my local dealer.

The judder grew worse and by the time we had driven back to the UK, it was severe. In the end, my local mechanic could only source Honeywell discs with which he fitted Bosch pads. He assured me these were of high quality.

Unfortunately, within another 3-4K miles, a slight judder has become evident again. No track days, only mild and sometimes moderate driving with care to avoid any disc issues. This time I took the vehicle to a local(ish) very highly regarded BMW specialist, who checked everything, suspension components etc and found the discs to have a run out of 0.7mm. I have had Bosch discs and pads fitted this time. The Bosch pads against the Honeywell discs seem not to have been so compatible. In fact, one of the pads had crumbled slightly and part of the pad has scored the disc quite severely. The mechanic said he would always be reluctant to use discs and pads from different manufacturers since they have not been developed with one another. Makes sense really.

Lesson learned, perhaps I'd have been better keeping my warranty and paying Rybrook for OEM equipment. Just be warned, be VERY careful when choosing discs and pads. I'll post back if any issues with Bosch discs and pads. The BMW specialist advised he's only ever had one set of discs give issues on an X5.

I would certainly never buy Pagid again as long as I live and will never buy from Euro Car Parts again either. I have heard an awful lot about how the quality has fallen off a cliff with Pagid since their manufacture has been shifted to China. The carbon content of the steel in the discs is very poor and they do not take heat at all well. I would certainly never have bought if I'd known they were manufactured in China. All is not, as it first would appear so much of the time!

[mob17]

For 335i/d you can get other manufacturer's discs/pads, loads of people do. I have always stayed away from Pagid.

I can provide the best EBC combo (yellows and ultimax discs) for around £500! Sold countless on this forum with ZERO complaints.

This may be a bit late for you OP sorry!

[essex_lad]

I had pagid discs and pads then after 6 months they was juddering like crazy. I scrapped them and bought expensive disks and pads. I would never get pagid ever agen. Buy cheap pay twice.

[spirocheter]

Thanks Mob 17, I certainly would have considered these ... next time eh! I certainly plan on running the car long term, I love it!

Thanks Essex Lad also. I had entirely agree. I always put on the best quality I can, irrespective of price, it is sometimes difficult to find out which are the best quality components! I've learnt the hard way here.

What has frustrated me, was my local mechanic had assured me if his pads and discs warped it would be a simple swap with his supplier. He acted like the second set warping was my fault and went back on his original assurance and said I might not get anything back on the Honeywell discs if they didn't agree there wasn't a problem. He has requested a 'report' before considering a warranty so I have asked for this from Pete at AutotechPerformance (BMW Specialist) and shall see if I can get a refund.