[Peen]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

You keep making reference to mhd as if it's the problem. The problem is Justin's tuning vs Terry's tuning... twisted tuning is creating the shelf maps that are available for purchase within the mhd app and they are still beta....

There is no way your car should show that weak on the current ots e30 flash. Makes no sense. Plenty of other people are showing 370whp with twisted tunings e30 ots map.

Again, the jb4 device doesn't magically create more whp for you when you're stacking it with a flash tune. The only gains are in the "extras" such as can communication and use as a controller. I clearly acknowledged this. The only reason to sell a jb4 is if you want the cash. Terry will give you a bef for free that clearly performs very well.

I never ever said MHD was a problem. Look at what I've said. Everything you can do with MHD you can do with JB4 stacked, and then some.

I never said the JB4 magically created more power. Please read. I clearly stated what the issue was. I get massive timing drops with MHD tune. And these is nothing I can do about it.

Have you ran JB4 with flash vs MHD?? I have. I have a valid point of comparison. Flash is smoother down low. My JB4 BEF is smoother 75% throttle and more.

MHD has a much more aggressive throttle to pedal input. JB4 BEF is linear. Again, I can change this. But I prefer linear, but hey, I can't touch the MHD map.

MHD only in 4th, 5th and 6th, I get no power...like I'm hitting a limiter. I need to get a graph to send to Justin to see what's going on. I don't get this issue with JB4 BEF. Pulls like a train.

Sorry, can't help my car is weak with E30 MHD map and not JB4. I've seen plenty of other MHD OTS VD logs that are stand alone 3rd gear by them selves which means nothing that are around the same power. as my graph. A little hill can change VD numbers.

I ran them back to back with everything being equal which is the major difference. And I've done plenty of other VD runs that are similar. Some more, some less.

Everyone is so bummed out about my graph. Get over it. Like I've said many many many times, post your own comparisons, by all means.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Cory S

LOL... The virtual dyno can NOT manipulate actual engine output on a real engine setup. There are so many variables from engine to engine. It can only ASSUME and calculate a hypothetical power value based on hardware used and user inputs. I've played with many virtual dynos over the years, and while it was interesting and neat to play around with, they were never meant to base real world results from.

Real life engine testing on dynos are entirely different than calculators. If you rely on stated virtual calculators to figure your real world results, you still have much to learn....

My point was that it is a very useful tool especially for showing the differences in tunes like peen used it for. Just make sure you do both pulls on the same exact straight flat road and adjust for temp and pressure between runs... it's not that hard to get comporable and repeatable results from virtual dyno.

Peen showing 320whp for the e30 ots tune tells me he's doing something wrong.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Peen

I never ever said MHD was a problem. Look at what I've said. Everything you can do with MHD you can do with JB4 stacked, and then some.

I never said the JB4 magically created more power. Please read. I clearly stated what the issue was. I get massive timing drops with MHD tune. And these is nothing I can do about it.

Have you ran JB4 with flash vs MHD?? I have. I have a valid point of comparison. Flash is smoother down low. My JB4 BEF is smoother 75% throttle and more.

MHD has a much more aggressive throttle to pedal input. JB4 BEF is linear. Again, I can change this. But I prefer linear, but hey, I can't touch the MHD map.

MHD only in 4th, 5th and 6th, I get no power...like I'm hitting a limiter. I need to get a graph to send to Justin to see what's going on. I don't get this issue with JB4 BEF. Pulls like a train.

Sorry, can't help my car is weak with E30 MHD map and not JB4. I've seen plenty of other MHD OTS VD logs that are stand alone 3rd gear by them selves which means nothing that are around the same power. as my graph. A little hill can change VD numbers.

I ran them back to back with everything being equal which is the major difference. And I've done plenty of other VD runs that are similar. Some more, some less.

Everyone is so bummed out about my graph. Get over it. Like I've said many many many times, post your own comparisons, by all means.

Dude you missed my point once again.

I get what your saying. But being flash only isn't the issue withat the e30 tune. The issue is its a beta map that isn't finished. The issue is the tuner not the fact that you were running flash only.

Stop making it a jb4 vs mhd thing. That's all I'm trying to correct. That's innacurate. It has nothing to do with "mhd." Terry wouldn't have been able to tune such a killer "bef" without mhd and the new tables martial has mapped in the dme. Again your jb4 stack doesn't run better because of the jb4 device, it runs better because Terry's flash tune is more finished/refined.

I have already been posting virtual dyno plots in the 1addicts thread.

So far, stage 2+ shows its a 15whp step down in power compared to my cobb protune that was tuned for 93 octane by cobb. The stage 2+ mhd ots map, as tuned by Justin, targets 190 load and I need 18-20 psi to hit it. My cobb protune targeted 200 load at roughly 20-22 psi.

The e30 tune targets 200 load and will hit it using less boost and it will run more timing than my old cobb protune. Results should be a more powerful tune in the 370whp range which is right inline with what other people are posting (except you).

My car plots 305/340 in virtual dyno for the ppk tune. Almost a dead on graph to mechanical dynos. That means stage 2+ represents a 40whp/60wtq gain with more expected from the e30 tune.

[Cory S]

Peen, what is your setup? Just the power adders.

[Peen]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Dude you missed my point once again.

I get what your saying. But being flash only isn't the issue withat the e30 tune. The issue is its a beta map that isn't finished. The issue is the tuner not the fact that you were running flash only.

Stop making it a jb4 vs mhd thing. That's all I'm trying to correct. That's innacurate. It has nothing to do with "mhd." Terry wouldn't have been able to tune such a killer "bef" without mhd and the new tables martial has mapped in the dme.again your jb4 stack doesn't run better because of the jb4 device, it runs better because Terry's flash tune is more finished/refined.

I have already been posting virtual dyno plots in the 1addicts thread.

So far, stage 2+ shows its a 15whp step down in power compared to my cobb protune that was tuned for 93 octane by cobb. The stage 2+ mhd ots map, as tunes by Justin, targets 190 load and I need 18psi to hit it. My cobb protune targeted 200 load at roughly 20 psi. The e30 tune targets 200 load and will hit it using less boost and it will run more timingredients than my old cobb protune. Results should be a more powerful tune in the 370whp range which is right inline with what other people are posting (except you).

Has nothing to do with Beta, Justin even said his map is going to be super conservative then Jb4. If I want more, I need to pay for custom map.

Or you know, create my own. Which I am doing in TunerPro.

VD means NOTHING on it's own. You're very obsessed with this 370HP number. Any hill slight hill will change this number. I can go down a hill with MHD tune and get much more VD power. I could take both of them up a 15% incline, get 200HP MHD 225 with JB4.

The important thing was they are back to back. Same day, same fuel, same temp, same weight. Not sure what else you wanted me to do.

And I'm not making this a JB4 vs MHD thing. I am showing my results. I also have MHD, MHD is fine. You're the one making this a JB4 vs MHD thing. I think you even said you don't like what BMS has done with the community, which shows your bias. I have no bias. Like I said before, I was going to sell my JB4 as well and go flash only. But guess what, I tried both. Again, have you?

I like MHD flash only as well. It's perfectly fine for most everyone, especially stock cars. Or people who don't like to tinker.

[Peen]

Originally Posted by Cory S

Peen, what is your setup? Just the power adders.

Just the basics, full tank E85 with JB4, E30 with E30 map (any more or less it goes crazy, but they were both E30 with Virtual Dyno), downpipe, tunes, Alpina.

I have PS2, Inlets, DV+...just need to put on.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Peen

Has nothing to do with Beta, Justin even said his map is going to be super conservative then Jb4. If I want more, I need to pay for custom map.

Or you know, create my own. Which I am doing in TunerPro.

VD means NOTHING on it's own. You're very obsessed with this 370HP number. Any hill slight hill will change this number. I can go down a hill with MHD tune and get much more VD power. I could take both of them up a 15% incline, get 200HP MHD 225 with JB4.

The important thing was they are back to back. Same day, same fuel, same temp, same weight. Not sure what else you wanted me to do.

And I'm not making this a JB4 vs MHD thing. I am showing my results. I also have MHD, MHD is fine. You're the one making this a JB4 vs MHD thing. I think you even said you don't like what BMS has done with the community, which shows your bias. I have no bias. Like I said before, I was going to sell my JB4 as well and go flash only. But guess what, I tried both. Again, have you?

I like MHD flash only as well. It's perfectly fine for most everyone, especially stock cars. Or people who don't like to tinker.

Holy shit you still don't get it. You just referred to Justin's e30 tune as "mhd" 30 more times. Mhd is just a flash utility used to get the map on your car... but write whatever you want. I just hope people don't interpret it in a literal way.

I'm not obsessed with 370hp. I just know what 200 load gets me on my car dyno verified... which is 360whp. E30 mix should allow for slightly higher timing and up that figure to 370ish. I'll flash it and throw up a comparison of my own for you.

Great points about virtual dyno... those points are exactly the reason why I say your e30 vd plots looks wrong and assume you probably did somethingk differently for that pull.

I'm not biased in what I am saying. The community doesn't even realize they are using an "mhd" flash tune when they run Terry's "bef." All these stupid acronyms he came up with to make his product look better has people clueless as the what a jb4 or an mhd even is. They don't even realize the "bef" is running the car and not the jb4 set to 4-4

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Peen

Just the basics, full tank E85 with JB4, E30 with E30 map (any more or less it goes crazy, but they were both E30 with Virtual Dyno), downpipe, tunes, Alpina.

I have PS2, Inlets, DV+...just need to put on.

Wowowwowow now you've really got me even more confused. You're not even running the mhd ots tune. Holy shit man. You're running a custom flash tune that Justin is doing from scratch for your ps2. That is even further reason for you to not even be mentioning mhd in your comparison. Just shows you really don't even know what "mhd" is.

Everything I talked about was in reference to the mhd ots e30 map for stock turbos. You saying mhd inferred that's what you were talking about too.

[Peen]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Holy shit you still don't get it. You just referred to Justin's e30 tune as "mhd" 30 more times. Mhd is just a flash utility used to get the map on your car... but write whatever you want. I just hope people don't interpret it in a literal way.

I'm not obsessed with 370hp. I just know what 200 load gets me on my car dyno verified... which is 360whp. E30 mix should allow for slightly higher timing and up that figure to 370ish. I'll flash it and throw up a comparison of my own for you.

Great points about virtual dyno... those points are exactly the reason why I say your e30 vd plots looks wrong and assume you probably did somethingk differently for that pull.

I'm not biased in what I am saying. The community its doesn't even realize they are using an "mhd" flash tune when they run Terry's "bef." All these stupid acronyms he came up with to make I'm hi product look better has people clueless as the what a jb4 even is.

Jeez buddy, you're clearly butthurt. Terry's flash uses tables defined by Mhd to upload with an app by Mhd. If you can't win an argument, just complain about things like that. Like a grammar nazi.

Still haven't answered my question if you have personally ran a jb4 with flash vs Mhd flash. Hopefully I said this correctly for your standards.

[Peen]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Wowowwowow now you've really got me even more confused. You're not even running the mhd ots tune. Holy shit man. You're running a custom flash tune that Justin is doing from scratch for your ps2. That is even further reason for you to not even be mentioning mhd in your comparison. Just shows you really don't even know what "mhd" is.

Everything I talked about was in reference to the mhd ots e30 map for stock turbos. You saying mhd inferred that's what you were talking about too.

Yes you are confused. It was it's map ots e30. Jb4 completely removed.

Please look at my initial post. It says. And I said ps2 isn't on yet. It's stock turbo

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by Peen

Jeez buddy, you're clearly butthurt. Terry's flash uses tables defined by Mhd to upload with an app by Mhd. If you can't win an argument, just complain about things like that. Like a grammar nazi.

Still haven't answered my question if you have personally ran a jb4 with flash vs Mhd flash. Hopefully I said this correctly for your standards.

I'm not butt hurt about anything. Ive already acknowledged Terrys tune is superior. He clearly has more experience tuning BMW.

You just have no clue what youre talking about so you think you can just use all these different words interchangeably. Your basically misleading people by saying jb4>mhd when the two things your comparing have nothing to do with the jb4 device or the mhd flashing app lol. You're comparing Terry's tune vs Justin's tune.

Fyi, I'm running a "custom" stage 2+ map from justin. It is much less agressive than the actual ots stage 2+ map. It would not be fair for me to plot my current map in VD and display it as a representation of the actual stage 2+ map. Comparing it to another tune would make even less sense. Who knows what he changed in the e30 tune for you to clean up the timing corrections you were seeing. He's been trying different things with the test files for certain people.

There is no argument to win. I only posted to point out that your conclusion of your comparison is innacurate and the actual data is questionable as well.

[Peen]

You know it's fine if you don't like the graph I posted. I didn't tamper or do anything questionable to graph. I can post logs if you would like.

But saying I don't know what I'm talking about is very rude. I do, actually. You're not reading my posts correctly which is evident by the fact you think I am running a custom map from Justin with PS2 turbo. Which I clearly stated in that post they aren't on yet.

I said in my original post with graph what I did. Take it or leave it, or post your own comparison.

[weehe126]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Wowowwowow now you've really got me even more confused. You're not even running the mhd ots tune. Holy shit man. You're running a custom flash tune that Justin is doing from scratch for your ps2. That is even further reason for you to not even be mentioning mhd in your comparison. Just shows you really don't even know what "mhd" is.

Everything I talked about was in reference to the mhd ots e30 map for stock turbos. You saying mhd inferred that's what you were talking about too.

god damn this is one retarded post. There is a E30 OTS map you can buy, that's what he ran. And if a ps2 is to be put in, it means he isn't running a ps2! omg lik wow, steel beams and jet fuel

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by weehe126

god damn this is one retarded post. There is a E30 OTS map you can buy, that's what he ran. And if a ps2 is to be put in, it means he isn't running a ps2! omg lik wow, steel beams and jet fuel

Yeah I read his post as the dv+ being the only thing that still needs to be installed. I read that after the above posts anyway... all my posts were operating under the assumption he was referencing the ots e30 tune...

All he keeps saying is "mhd" so we have no clue wtf tune he's talking about. That's my whole point. But yeah, that vd plot is not reflective of the current e30 shelf tune being packaged with mhd.

Peen specifically asked for an explanation on how flash only can match anything that can be produced with a stacked setup. If he didn't know the answer to that then no he has no clue what he's talking about and he had no clue what a "bef" is when he made that comment.

The answer is a bef is a flash tune. They are the same damn thing. The only difference being that mhd ots maps are tuned by Justin and the "bef" hes comparing to is tuned by Terry. As already stated earlier by myself and Cory, if both tuners modify the tables the same way the output is going to be exactly the same.

Peen even went on to say that based on the results of his comparison he's going to stick with jb4+bef. I don't blame him because Terry is clearly doing a great job of tuning. However, I'm sure wedge could create a custom tune for him that would top Terry's bef. Justin will do it too. Comparing Terry's agressive full e85 bef to Justin's early development e30 shelf tune is a pretty bad basis for his decision.

[Peen]

Originally Posted by bbnks2

Yeah I read his post as the dv+ being the only thing that still needs to be installed. I read that after the above posts anyway... all my posts were operating under the assumption he was referencing the ots e30 tune...

All he keeps saying is "mhd" so we have no clue wtf tune he's talking about. That's my whole point. But yeah, that vd plot is not reflective of the current e30 shelf tune being packaged with mhd.

Peen specifically asked for an explanation on how flash only can match anything that can be produced with a stacked setup. If he didn't know the answer to that then no he has no clue what he's talking about and he had no clue what a "bef" is when he made that comment.

Lost cause here.

You're the only one that can't read my posts. Evident in all your posts. I have a clue.

I did not ask for an explanation on how flash only can match a stacked. I clearly said, flash only can match JB4 stacked. I asked how FLASH ONLY can make more then JB4 stack. Please, read carefully. It's not hard to understand.

The map I ran IS an OTS map VD plot. Sorry it didn't come out the way you hoped. Still waiting on your JB4 w/ BEF to flash only comparison.

It's very strange you signed up just to start an argument I am not even trying to have when all I did was a comparison you don't like, and then call me "clueless".

[Peen]

Was talking to Terry about the smoothness of JB4 with flash. Sent a ton of comparison logs, and he found an issue with current firmware so he made a change.

It's a TON smoother. Feels pretty much exactly like flash only part throttle...but with more whallop when you hit the pedal.

Terry posted the firmware (v5.14) over at N54tech...please try it out for more feedback It's in the ISO thread.

[Thate92]

Originally Posted by Johnny Boost

I finally got around to trying out the BMS BEFs for pump and e85. WOW! I have run an E50 Cobb pro tune from PTF, JB4, and JB4+MHD. The JB4 + MHD is by far the best set up that I have used so far.

Initial thoughts:

The MHD was super easy to use and the flash process was straight forward. I am running v5.12 Test7 ISO firmware from Terry. I initially flashed the PUMP BEF with a 1/4 tank of 93 octane and put the car into map 2. With this set up, the car was pulling MUCH harder than before. It is a night and day difference. I filled the tank up with 40% e85, switched to map 5, and my tires chirped in 3rd gear when doing the autotune pulls. This is something that has never happened before. The car feels 100% smoother, more consistent, and it pulls like a freight train. The car seems to shift much smoother also.

Extras:

I wasn't sure if I would like the exhaust burble option but I ended up loving the feature. I set the duration to 1 second.

The cold start delete feature worked great as well and will come in handy in the mornings since I live in a condo.


Issues:
The only issue I experienced was with the transmission immediately following the flash. This is something that the Cobb tune did also and it's not a big deal. I did not have any idling issues or misfires.

Summary:
I am incredibly impressed by the JB4+MHD. It is a night and day difference from the JB4 alone and, in my opinion, outperforms the E50 Cobb pro tune that I had. I don't think I can go back to using the JB4 alone.

Do you still get the option to mess with the bin file for custom tuning using both JB4 + MHD?

[Johnny Boost]

Originally Posted by Thate92

Do you still get the option to mess with the bin file for custom tuning using both JB4 + MHD?

Yes

[Bmw doubles]

[Bours]

i made some too

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

[Mikaeldarer]

Update on E50 custom flash tune by Justin@MHD

logs:http://datazap.me/u/mikaeldarer/ps1c...og=1&data=4-14

[WedgePerformance]

Not sure why people try to do comparisons. Doesn't really matter how you tune your car. We all want the same thing, boost...

Flash tuning with MHD is new, so it will take a bit more time to get to where we need to be, but mark my words, it won't be long before things change on this platform which will make a lot of people rethink how they tune.

With my PS2, I found that Commanded WG works best. Next revision will address spool and smooth out the table a bit more. Currently running 92 oct with meth at 17 psi. Car is super smooth and responsive.

This was a log from a local customers 2011 135 DCT that is setup identical to my car. We're supposed to have a break in the weather next week and might see 50's here. Will be a change as the past two weeks have been freezing with freezing rain and snow. Very little time to test or turn on the port injection and hit the dyno... but soon..