E90Post
 


The Tire Rack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos > Why is the Manual transmission a dying breed?



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-08-2019, 09:18 AM   #133
duder13
Captain
duder13's Avatar
610
Rep
741
Posts

Drives: Cashmere
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Pomroy View Post

I have an E46CI M supercharged manual, an X5M F15 8 speed auto and a Porsche 997 turbo cabriolet stage 2 tuned.
There is no doubt that a manual is more involving, but the modern auto boxes are superb, THE BMW 8 speed with flick across sport mode and paddles are so much faster away from the lights and so very controllable at a touch of the finger tips,
Great in crawling traffic. For the driver just a big grade up from a stick and clutch change
My wife had a Ď16 X3 with the 8-speed auto, and I wish it had a manual. Itís just not fun to me, and I donít think the response is all that great.
Appreciate 1
eluded1569.50

      08-10-2019, 06:37 AM   #134
robotk
First Lieutenant
robotk's Avatar
124
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: F90 M5 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SE

iTrader: (1)

I blame Ferrari

They were among the first to abandon manual transmissions, mostly aligning with changing conventions in racing. The performance numbers with DCT/F1 style transmissions were just better and that was a big advantage in the days when people actually cared about performance numbers and we didn't have sub 3 second family cars.

Once you had companies like Ferrari endorsing the automatic life, a lot of the stigma was removed.

It used to be getting a manual transmission was the faster, cheaper and more fuel efficient option. Automatics were terrible in the 80s and 90s. Once manufacturers started offering automatics for free, a lot of the cheap manuals were gone from the market. Once those disappeared, it became harder for teens to learn to drive stick. No cars were available.

As those teens get older, it becomes that much harder to learn. It's very intimidating to buy a car you don't know how to drive and adults don't like to be embarrassed.

So now we have a huge swath of drivers who can't drive stick, free automatics that are faster and more efficient than stick, and all the fastest cars are available only with automatic.

Frankly, cars like the M5 are too big, powerful and numb to really be enjoyable with a stick. The auto really does serve that car better. Doesn't mean I necessarily prefer the experience. My 993 is a stick and way slower than the M5 and I'd pick it 10/10 for pure driving fun. For a DD that has to serve multiple duties - the M5 with automatic is the better choice. Besides, the power plant of the M5 has virtually instantaneous torque at very low RPMs. You don't really have to work the engine. The fun of stick having to thrash an engine into the stratosphere and keeping it on the boil. The slow death of NA motors has also contributed to the demise of stick.

Bottom line - it's sad but not surprising that stick is dying off.
__________________
Current: 2019 BMW M5 Competition. 2019 Range Rover HSE. 1998 Porsche 993 C4S
Previous: 2018 Audi RS3, 2017 Porsche 991.2 Turbo, 2016 Porsche GT4, 2011 e90 m3, 1993 e36 325i, 1999 e46 328i, 2005 ap2 s2000, 2007 WRX, 2008 g37s coupe, 2009 Audi a4 2.0T Avant
Appreciate 2
Red Bread2977.50
clee1982396.50

      08-10-2019, 07:17 AM   #135
Darth One
drunk poster
Darth One's Avatar
United_States
2813
Rep
2,565
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS | E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Shouldn’t you blame bmw for being the first to introduce SMG on an iconic but also accessible performance car?
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2019, 07:20 AM   #136
robotk
First Lieutenant
robotk's Avatar
124
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: F90 M5 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SE

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
Shouldnít you blame bmw for being the first to introduce SMG on an iconic but also accessible performance car?
Sure. But BMW still makes manual transmissions, so they get a bit of a pass.
__________________
Current: 2019 BMW M5 Competition. 2019 Range Rover HSE. 1998 Porsche 993 C4S
Previous: 2018 Audi RS3, 2017 Porsche 991.2 Turbo, 2016 Porsche GT4, 2011 e90 m3, 1993 e36 325i, 1999 e46 328i, 2005 ap2 s2000, 2007 WRX, 2008 g37s coupe, 2009 Audi a4 2.0T Avant
Appreciate 1
clee1982396.50

      08-10-2019, 07:50 AM   #137
Machinebuilder
Private First Class
Machinebuilder's Avatar
United_States
90
Rep
159
Posts

Drives: 640 IX GT MS, 440IX 6MT Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northeast USA

iTrader: (0)

It is a shame manuals are dying. The new hill assist and rev matching features have made them really easy to use for even novices. I bought a new 2019 6 MT recently just to get one before they disappear.
Appreciate 1
eluded1569.50

      08-13-2019, 12:45 PM   #138
duder13
Captain
duder13's Avatar
610
Rep
741
Posts

Drives: Cashmere
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by robotk View Post
You don't really have to work the engine. The fun of stick having to thrash an engine into the stratosphere and keeping it on the boil. The slow death of NA motors has also contributed to the demise of stick.
You don't have to, but you still can.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2019, 01:53 PM   #139
clee1982
Captain
United_States
397
Rep
999
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotk View Post
I blame Ferrari

They were among the first to abandon manual transmissions, mostly aligning with changing conventions in racing. The performance numbers with DCT/F1 style transmissions were just better and that was a big advantage in the days when people actually cared about performance numbers and we didn't have sub 3 second family cars.

Once you had companies like Ferrari endorsing the automatic life, a lot of the stigma was removed.

It used to be getting a manual transmission was the faster, cheaper and more fuel efficient option. Automatics were terrible in the 80s and 90s. Once manufacturers started offering automatics for free, a lot of the cheap manuals were gone from the market. Once those disappeared, it became harder for teens to learn to drive stick. No cars were available.

As those teens get older, it becomes that much harder to learn. It's very intimidating to buy a car you don't know how to drive and adults don't like to be embarrassed.

So now we have a huge swath of drivers who can't drive stick, free automatics that are faster and more efficient than stick, and all the fastest cars are available only with automatic.

Frankly, cars like the M5 are too big, powerful and numb to really be enjoyable with a stick. The auto really does serve that car better. Doesn't mean I necessarily prefer the experience. My 993 is a stick and way slower than the M5 and I'd pick it 10/10 for pure driving fun. For a DD that has to serve multiple duties - the M5 with automatic is the better choice. Besides, the power plant of the M5 has virtually instantaneous torque at very low RPMs. You don't really have to work the engine. The fun of stick having to thrash an engine into the stratosphere and keeping it on the boil. The slow death of NA motors has also contributed to the demise of stick.

Bottom line - it's sad but not surprising that stick is dying off.
exactly, manual use to mean more performance, no longer...
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2019, 02:24 PM   #140
jsf721
Private First Class
United_States
91
Rep
189
Posts

Drives: 2019 540i X M Sport
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

I had a E30 M3 and loved it. Wish I still had it. Since then a barrage of 6mt cars. Then in 1995 the wife and I started a family and I traded in my DD for a Volvo 850 turbo. Since then Iíve not owned a MT. They have since become rarer because the performance cars have autoís that outperform sticks and although many enthusiasts like to row the gears, there is not enough of us to justify production numbers.

Heck I just want to rent one to teach my kids how to drive. Nope. Not Happening.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2019, 02:38 PM   #141
NYG
Captain
NYG's Avatar
United_States
588
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 CS
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

I didn't read the whole thread so I'm sure this has been mentioned already but:

While no one will argue that manual transmissions are more engaging for the driver, they've taken a back seat to automatics in every other aspect. It's really not hard to see why we're approaching the point where manuals are pretty much not offered at all. They used to be close but now, if you want ultimate performance you're shooting yourself in the foot by getting a manual. I don't blame people who do but I'll take a PDK over any trans.

People used to argue carburetors were better than EFI, etc...
Appreciate 1
nlaak63.00

      08-21-2019, 02:55 PM   #142
duder13
Captain
duder13's Avatar
610
Rep
741
Posts

Drives: Cashmere
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYG View Post

People used to argue carburetors were better than EFI, etc...
Naw, controlling gear changes is much different. It's more akin to removing the steering wheel in favor of computer self-steering, but adding a little computer assisted joystick, should the driver want to take over steering control. That's fine in a car made for transportation, but not in a car made for fun.

I have no doubt that a car completely controlled by a computer will be faster than all of us...but who cares at that point??
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2019, 02:59 PM   #143
clee1982
Captain
United_States
397
Rep
999
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW 540i xDrive
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I don't think that's appropriate analogy...
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2019, 04:44 PM   #144
SteveinArizona
Major
United_States
673
Rep
1,466
Posts

Drives: BMW 530e
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Greater Phoenix

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsf721 View Post
I had a E30 M3 and loved it. Wish I still had it. Since then a barrage of 6mt cars. Then in 1995 the wife and I started a family and I traded in my DD for a Volvo 850 turbo. Since then Iíve not owned a MT. They have since become rarer because the performance cars have autoís that outperform sticks and although many enthusiasts like to row the gears, there is not enough of us to justify production numbers.

Heck I just want to rent one to teach my kids how to drive. Nope. Not Happening.
https://www.yellowpages.com/long-isl...driving-school
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2019, 04:59 PM   #145
NYG
Captain
NYG's Avatar
United_States
588
Rep
725
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 CS
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Brooklyn, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by duder13 View Post
Naw, controlling gear changes is much different. It's more akin to removing the steering wheel in favor of computer self-steering, but adding a little computer assisted joystick, should the driver want to take over steering control. That's fine in a car made for transportation, but not in a car made for fun.

I have no doubt that a car completely controlled by a computer will be faster than all of us...but who cares at that point??
TT racers
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST