[Cdutch513]

I don't understand why there is so much hate on ESS. If you are all so smart then why the fuck don't you own a multi million dollar business that creates products ranging from the N52 to R8s? I've seen the graphs of the adaptations with the AA headers and their tune. Is it dangerous? I don't know, but I haven't spent thousands of hours tuning cars. Have you?

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I don't understand why there is so much hate on ESS. If you are all so smart then why the fuck don't you own a multi million dollar business that creates products ranging from the N52 to R8s? I've seen the graphs of the adaptations with the AA headers and their tune. Is it dangerous? I don't know, but I haven't spent thousands of hours tuning cars. Have you?

Really?

Most of us read these forums for entertainment and knowledge. Lets cool off a little, please.

It's general knowledge that when there is a information void, people tend to fill the void with their own ideas. The quote from ESS left a lot to our imagination and some of us were left wondering if this was just marketing based comments. It would have been better to qualify the ESS quote with more specifics, regardless to how complicated they might be.

[Kgolf31]

My car is only an autocross car now. All it sees is high punishment.

I'm over revving the engine (7200 rpm but still) and still don't have issues. Have had AA headers for almost 2 years now. I was inital release buyer

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I don't understand why there is so much hate on ESS. If you are all so smart then why the fuck don't you own a multi million dollar business that creates products ranging from the N52 to R8s? I've seen the graphs of the adaptations with the AA headers and their tune. Is it dangerous? I don't know, but I haven't spent thousands of hours tuning cars. Have you?

No hate - tuners blow smoke and say things that aren't true, because they know their customers are ignorant about DME tuning. Especially when it comes to competitors.

There's no "graph" of adaptations, i can tell you that. There are a handful of values stored in non volatile memory, but if they showed you a "graph" it was probably bs.

The fact remains that even the stock DME has a mechanism to adjust for the distance of the O2 sensors. Its up to the tuner to know and adjust for it.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by Cdutch513

I don't understand why there is so much hate on ESS. If you are all so smart then why the fuck don't you own a multi million dollar business that creates products ranging from the N52 to R8s? I've seen the graphs of the adaptations with the AA headers and their tune. Is it dangerous? I don't know, but I haven't spent thousands of hours tuning cars. Have you?

it's not really hate. If ESS was truly worry about the problems AA headers can do to our cars then why not come here and express their concerns, instead they put fear into some customers and ran away. I dont see anyone for ESS backing up their customer when they mention AA headers are dangerous . At least AA came here to defend their product. Furthermore as you already know, after all you went through with ESS, even at some point hating on them , it takes them very long to get their tune right. There are other threads with customer running the supercharger and having numerous problems with their tuning . They even had a customer bring the car to them to install the supercharger and then having his car break down on the way home .

Another problem I have with ESS as the lack of information about their supercharger, if you ever follow their original thread you will see it took them a very long to give us updates . Furthermore we have not seen a proper video of their supercharger yet ( acceleration video). If I was promoting a product that makes significant power, I will be posting videos to show what my product is capable of doing.

I think that I have seen one or two videos of the acceleration on this ESS supercharger from members here, and to be honest with you I was not too impress, it pretty much look like stock , to be more fair it did not look like something more of a 3 stage intake plus headers . I'm thinking that is the main reason for ESS not to release videos.

I have been running headers for a while , and although I will be the first one to say that its not 335 acceleration , I have not complaints about reliability so far ( knock on wood) and we have members in this forum running these headers pretty hard and they are still going strong. I do not think we have anyone with ESS supercharger doing track , and I believe we have at least 2 members with AA headers doing track .

Only complaint about AA headers for me is the smell (personal complaint as noone seems to mind aside from me) and maybe the fact that there may be issues passing emission test. I still have 2 more years for emissions though

[JuniorB]

Long tube headers have been out since the beginning of time,even before o2 sensors were even created,they free the velocity of exhaust travel,check further down your exhaust system,your sec,cats or muffler may be on there way out. Most of this info that's posted it true, why does a supercharger loose power with headers,but run better with restricted manifolds?

[blindrooster]

Got a dyno, running rich above 6k. Talking to AA about it.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by blindrooster

Got a dyno, running rich above 6k. Talking to AA about it.

Uhh...Odd.

Try resetting adaptations for one, but it looks like you're running pig rich up top and you're making an epic shit on of torque. Auto, manual?

[DUI Elite]

Ess is false.

Ive run AA headers and 3 stage IM with Eurocharged stage 3 tune for over 10k miles with no problems (including hitting 140+ with ease)

[blindrooster]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Uhh...Odd.

Try resetting adaptations for one, but it looks like you're running pig rich up top and you're making an epic shit on of torque. Auto, manual?

It's an auto and I've reset adaptations a few times since tuning the car.

Very pleased with the torque.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Uhh...Odd.

Try resetting adaptations for one, but it looks like you're running pig rich up top and you're making an epic shit on of torque. Auto, manual?

it's not really odd - it's the cat overheat protection kicking in.

I don't think the N52 actually has an EGT sensor, but in any case, the DME calculates EGT based on a model, and when it crosses a certain temp threshold it dumps fuel to protect the cats. You'll see this in basically every N52 dyno graph that hasn't turned it off. It also kills top end power..

[blindrooster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

it's not really odd - it's the cat overheat protection kicking in.

I don't think the N52 actually has an EGT sensor, but in any case, the DME calculates EGT based on a model, and when it crosses a certain temp threshold it dumps fuel to protect the cats. You'll see this in basically every N52 dyno graph that hasn't turned it off. It also kills top end power..

Very informative. I'll have to see what AA says about it, they are currently looking into a tune for me.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

it's not really odd - it's the cat overheat protection kicking in.

I don't think the N52 actually has an EGT sensor, but in any case, the DME calculates EGT based on a model, and when it crosses a certain temp threshold it dumps fuel to protect the cats. You'll see this in basically every N52 dyno graph that hasn't turned it off. It also kills top end power..

What RPM does it usually kick in at?

[hassmaschine]

seems to be 6200-6500 but it's really based on temperature, not RPM.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

seems to be 6200-6500 but it's really based on temperature, not RPM.

Meaning in some scenarios it could activate early or not at all?

[Torgus]

I just wanted to add ESS is full of shit here.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

seems to be 6200-6500 but it's really based on temperature, not RPM.

Your comment made me go back and look, but A/F are all over the place!

On a 330i, it averages around 13:1 and on a 328i it goes from 15:1 to closer 13:1

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...916863&page=10

Even some tuned graphs keep the stock 328i fueling - why? Bob@BPC

[blindrooster]

AA says they don't see anything out of the ordinary in my tune. ugh.

[justpete]

Originally Posted by blindrooster

AA says they don't see anything out of the ordinary in my tune. ugh.

Need the number for BPC?

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

Your comment made me go back and look, but A/F are all over the place!

On a 330i, it averages around 13:1 and on a 328i it goes from 15:1 to closer 13:1

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...916863&page=10

Even some tuned graphs keep the stock 328i fueling - why? Bob@BPC

I've said it before, but that's what the 328i fuel curve looks like. The stock 330i curve is about 13.5:1 until the last cell, where it drops to ~12:8. the stock 325i 14.7:1 until almost 5k before it drops to the 13's and tapers off to 12.35. The 328i curve is similar to the 325i.



Theoretically the DME just follows the AF targets. in reality, the cat overheat protection can add up to 30% more fuel. That's why it always drops as far as 10:1 at the end of the graph. My fuel curve is nearly stock except that last cell I leaned out (I hadn't learned about cat protection at the time, so it still is too rich).



Every time I see one of these wacky fuel curves, I wonder what the tune looks like. There's no reason to target 14.7:1 at full load except for emissions reasons. I can't imagine AA didn't even touch the fuel curve, but I've never seen it personally and it doesn't make sense otherwise.

BTW, I had been looking for this map for a while. Took me a while to realize what the german word for cat protection is.. it's not obvious!

[blindrooster]

Originally Posted by justpete

Need the number for BPC?

They'll be doing the tune for me when I get a super charger, but I've paid AA $1600 so I'm hoping they can resolve this.

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by blindrooster

They'll be doing the tune for me when I get a super charger, but I've paid AA $1600 so I'm hoping they can resolve this.

At least message Bob and have him look it over, he is a AA dealer (and a tuner) and he might be able to give you some direction.