[ornicar]

the tightening torque i had back-up before TIS dead...

[Biginboca]

I had a chance to push the car some this morning. Sunday mornings the roads are very quiet here

Front of the car is buttoned up for sure. Very happy with results from all the bracing!

My concerns are now with the back, and I don’t think it’s a matter of adding bracing. I’m running the white line rear subframe bushing inserts. I think if I had gone solid inserts there it would have been better. I have all M3 rear arms except the large LCA. And I have the ECS trailing arms and Manzo toe arms.

There’s something about the rear where it just doesn’t quite feel as buttoned up as I think it should. Not sure if it’s bracing, maybe solid subframe inserts, or even replacing the larger lower control arms with M3 (or uniball joint) would help.

[Tambohamilton]

Can't find any mention of that weird nut in the tis...

The rest is covered in section 51 61 Reinforcement, body.

Let me know if you'd like me to post torques etc.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Can't find any mention of that weird nut in the tis...

The rest is covered in section 51 61 Reinforcement, body.

Let me know if you'd like me to post torques etc.

If you have access to the torque for the front brace bolts please do post them, I’d like to see them. Also it would definitely be helpful to have them all in the same thread with the part numbers. Thank you!

[Tambohamilton]

Here we go. 10AZ & 11AZ.

I'll PM you regarding the tis too....

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

My concerns are now with the back, and I don’t think it’s a matter of adding bracing. I’m running the white line rear subframe bushing inserts. I think if I had gone solid inserts there it would have been better. I have all M3 rear arms except the large LCA. And I have the ECS trailing arms and Manzo toe arms.

There’s something about the rear where it just doesn’t quite feel as buttoned up as I think it should. Not sure if it’s bracing, maybe solid subframe inserts, or even replacing the larger lower control arms with M3 (or uniball joint) would help.

I went with these rear subframe bushing inserts:

https://www.ecstuning.com/News/BMW_E..._Insert_25647/

Have you also considered a diff brace? Tightens up any play in the relationship between diff, prop shaft and drive shafts. Like this one:

Just a thought...

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

I went with these rear subframe bushing inserts:

https://www.ecstuning.com/News/BMW_E..._Insert_25647/

Have you also considered a diff brace? Tightens up any play in the relationship between diff, prop shaft and drive shafts. Like this one:

Just a thought...

I have replaced all my diff bushings with M Factory high durometer ones. I don’t think the issue (it’s not really an issue just something I’d like to improve) is related to the diff.

I think it’s either some suspension geometry change that happens under bumps/cornering (like maybe toe changes under compression, or some rear bump steer) or something to do with the rear subframe bushings. I’m going to do some research to see if the E92M3 had any reports of this and if so how that platform addresses it.

Btw here’s an interesting video where the new Supra bump steer is discussed. From what I’ve seen the Supra rear suspension looks really close to the e92 rear so it wouldn’t surprise me if the same fix would work for both.

One thing I never mentioned in this thread is a few months ago I installed Turner bump steer correcting tie rod ends. Because the front of my car is lowered maybe 1.5” the front end felt a little loose at speeds over 100mph hitting freeway transitions and pavement irregularities. Those tie rod ends made a huge difference and the front now feels really great, planted and solid even at speeds over 130mph. With the bracing and geometry corrected I’m loving how the front end feels.

I want to get the rear end to that point now. Lowering a car and changing a lot of parts/geometry from oem obviously will change the interplay of them. My fix might just be as simple as installing a few uniballs at the ends of the camber arms. Not sure yet but I’m open to suggestions!

[Phil325i]

You're getting into complexities above my pay grade! Once the Supra issue is sorted please share the outcome...

[Biginboca]

I ordered uniballs for all rubber bushing locations on my car. The goal is to have all 14 control arms spherically jointed at both ends. So that’s up next!

Meanwhile I posted this in the N/A forum today but I also wanted to have it here in my build thread...

I decided I wanted to see where my car is at these days because I’ve done a lot of mods this year and never did a Dragy. So I did a few dragy tests this morning.

I didn’t want to do 0-60 runs because it’s hard on the clutch and if I’m going to trash my clutch I want a full 1/4 mile out of it. Drag strip coming soon.

Instead I took my dragy out for a ride to try some other metrics. I decided to do some 50-80mph pulls since it’s not hard on the equipment and I was able to find some benchmarks posted online for a few other legendary BMW’s for that same metric. Let’s see the results...

So that’s a 50-80mph pull in 4.23 seconds. I only did 2 pulls so there definitely might be a better one in the car, but traffic was picking up on that road and I was happy with the number I got.

To compare with some other cars I looked here:

http://www.car-videos.net/performanc...1=50&Speed2=80

And the bottom line is this... for 50-80mph pulls these legendary N/A M cars got these times:

E39m5 4.20 seconds
E46m3 4.27 seconds

So my economy commuter built bmw is now right in with those M legends. Pretty cool that a 3.0l N/A N52 can hang with those cars I think and we all know the N52 motor is way more reliable and less maintenance than the engines in either of those cars. I don’t think people give it enough credit!

[Tambohamilton]

Which uniballs did you go for, particularly at the rear?

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Which uniballs did you go for, particularly at the rear?

Provided you already have all the M3 arms front and rear (I do) then everything you need to know is here in this thread:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781245

Here’s what I ended up ordering...

Front:

https://germanautosolutions.com/stor...ntrol-arms-v2/


Rear:

8 x BMW Control Arm Uniball - Meyle

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...ing-3147100005

4 x Custom “Cone Washers” for Adapting Uniballs to OEM Control Arms*

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781246

*These cone washers are pending if you think you want to do the uniball conversion now, or at any point down the line, I would get on the list in that thread because you probably won’t be able to get them if you wait.

1 x Rear Camber Bushing Uniball Replacement Kit:

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...aring-Kit.html

1 x Rear Toe Arms with Heim Joints

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-spl-part...lrtaele9x~spl/

For these toe arms I would have gotten the Bimmer world toe arms because they look really well made for $280 but the SPL were on sale at ECS yesterday for $300 and they are easier to adjust (no Jam Nuts which I hate dealing with). The SPL is now back up to like $420 so I would buy the Bimmer world ones if you are looking now.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...Arm-Set_2.html

And I also ordered this kit for ease of bushing install on the rear:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-bav-auto.../b8800101~bat/

[tetsuo111]

Thanks for sharing results. I have those SPL tie rod ends waiting to go on a new M3 rack. Keep it up!

Originally Posted by Biginboca

One thing I never mentioned in this thread is a few months ago I installed Turner bump steer correcting tie rod ends. Because the front of my car is lowered maybe 1.5” the front end felt a little loose at speeds over 100mph hitting freeway transitions and pavement irregularities. Those tie rod ends made a huge difference and the front now feels really great, planted and solid even at speeds over 130mph. With the bracing and geometry corrected I’m loving how the front end feels.

I want to get the rear end to that point now. Lowering a car and changing a lot of parts/geometry from oem obviously will change the interplay of them. My fix might just be as simple as installing a few uniballs at the ends of the camber arms. Not sure yet but I’m open to suggestions!

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

Things

Thanks for posting all that! I wasn't aware of those camber arm adaptors. I've read somewhere that somebody had the meyle ball joints fail on them quick, so they recommended the lemforder ones which lasted longer...hopefully the meyles will do you fine though!

I've looked at doing this myself, but never made any moves mainly because of £$ and time. The thing I keep stalling on is the toe arms; I intensely dislike every aftermarket ball jointed offering ,even though I'm sure they work fine (as well as an open ball joint can). I wish fe1rx would sell a few sets of the arms he made. I've also thought of running an m3 rear subframe, but not sure if that alone will solve the toe arm issue (enable the use of an m3 toe arm). I'm also not sure if I'd prefer the nvh of just stock m3 parts. I've got m3 up front and don't see the need to go any further (at least until I add more bracing). I'm in the UK, so if I do get conical washers I'll look into having my own made.

Looking forward to seeing this come together for you

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I ordered uniballs for all rubber bushing locations on my car. The goal is to have all 14 control arms spherically jointed at both ends. So that’s up next!

Meanwhile I posted this in the N/A forum today but I also wanted to have it here in my build thread...

I decided I wanted to see where my car is at these days because I’ve done a lot of mods this year and never did a Dragy. So I did a few dragy tests this morning.

I didn’t want to do 0-60 runs because it’s hard on the clutch and if I’m going to trash my clutch I want a full 1/4 mile out of it. Drag strip coming soon.

Instead I took my dragy out for a ride to try some other metrics. I decided to do some 50-80mph pulls since it’s not hard on the equipment and I was able to find some benchmarks posted online for a few other legendary BMW’s for that same metric. Let’s see the results...

So that’s a 50-80mph pull in 4.23 seconds. I only did 2 pulls so there definitely might be a better one in the car, but traffic was picking up on that road and I was happy with the number I got.

To compare with some other cars I looked here:

http://www.car-videos.net/performanc...1=50&Speed2=80

And the bottom line is this... for 50-80mph pulls these legendary N/A M cars got these times:

E39m5 4.20 seconds
E46m3 4.27 seconds

So my economy commuter built bmw is now right in with those M legends. Pretty cool that a 3.0l N/A N52 can hang with those cars I think and we all know the N52 motor is way more reliable and less maintenance than the engines in either of those cars. I don’t think people give it enough credit!

Great job! I guess your non-standard diff will have influenced the timing though. Which gear were you in when you did the 50-80? And did you change gear during the run?

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Great job! I guess your non-standard diff will have influenced the timing though. Which gear were you in when you did the 50-80? And did you change gear during the run?

Hi Phil,

I did 2 runs, one where I changed gears (so starting the run in 2nd) and another above where I started in 3rd.

So to be clear the one above was staying in 3rd the whole time. Below is the first one I did where I was in second and shifted into 3rd around 58mph...

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Thanks for posting all that! I wasn't aware of those camber arm adaptors. I've read somewhere that somebody had the meyle ball joints fail on them quick, so they recommended the lemforder ones which lasted longer...hopefully the meyles will do you fine though!

I've looked at doing this myself, but never made any moves mainly because of £$ and time. The thing I keep stalling on is the toe arms; I intensely dislike every aftermarket ball jointed offering ,even though I'm sure they work fine (as well as an open ball joint can). I wish fe1rx would sell a few sets of the arms he made. I've also thought of running an m3 rear subframe, but not sure if that alone will solve the toe arm issue (enable the use of an m3 toe arm). I'm also not sure if I'd prefer the nvh of just stock m3 parts. I've got m3 up front and don't see the need to go any further (at least until I add more bracing). I'm in the UK, so if I do get conical washers I'll look into having my own made.

Looking forward to seeing this come together for you

I looked for the lemforder joints but they are hard to find in the states and run about $40ea with shipping. The Meyle are $18 each and with FCP Euro they have a lifetime replacement warranty. I read a few good reports on the Meyle so went that route, but if I could get the Lemforder at normal pricing in the UK like you (~$25ea) I would have gone that route for sure!

I don’t think the M3 subframe is different I think the knuckles are using a different toe arm attachment location, that’s why the M toe arms are shorter. So you would need to swap the knuckles I believe. The Bimmer world toe arms using a really great heim joint, the specs on it are way overkill for the application I would run them without a second thought

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

I looked for the lemforder joints but they are hard to find in the states and run about $40ea with shipping. The Meyle are $18 each and with FCP Euro they have a lifetime replacement warranty. I read a few good reports on the Meyle so went that route, but if I could get the Lemforder at normal pricing in the UK like you (~$25ea) I would have gone that route for sure!

I don’t think the M3 subframe is different I think the knuckles are using a different toe arm attachment location, that’s why the M toe arms are shorter. So you would need to swap the knuckles I believe. The Bimmer world toe arms using a really great heim joint, the specs on it are way overkill for the application I would run them without a second thought

Yeah, the lemforder ones are spendy...I think around £30ea here, cheapest I can find. Meyle should still be decent anyhow!

Thanks for the info/confirmation on the m3 bits. Shame, because I definitely can't justify m3 rear brakes as well! I don't think any open ball joint will have a great lifespan here in the UK wet, salt and dirt are a fearsome combination! I'd much rather fit more stock ball joints in a custom arm. But that'll have to wait!

[Phil325i]

Tried a quick test to day (no scientific timing kit like yours) and got 5 secs in 3rd gear, so pretty pleased with that. N53 engine (not available in the US) and only weight reduction measure being Recaro seats.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Tried a quick test to day (no scientific timing kit like yours) and got 5 secs in 3rd gear, so pretty pleased with that. N53 engine (not available in the US) and only weight reduction measure being Recaro seats.

That’s not bad at all! How much HP is your n53 spec’ed at? Have you ever considered doing a diff swap from an automatic? That was the first mod I did on my car and made probably the most noticeable change of any mod I have done.

[Biginboca]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Yeah, the lemforder ones are spendy...I think around £30ea here, cheapest I can find. Meyle should still be decent anyhow!

Thanks for the info/confirmation on the m3 bits. Shame, because I definitely can't justify m3 rear brakes as well! I don't think any open ball joint will have a great lifespan here in the UK wet, salt and dirt are a fearsome combination! I'd much rather fit more stock ball joints in a custom arm. But that'll have to wait!

I’m going to be taking off my Manzo toe arms, and I was already wondering if they would accept an oem style spherical bushing. They come with a hard rubber bushing new. I’ll take a close look at them once they are off the car maybe they can work.

[Phil325i]

Originally Posted by Biginboca

That’s not bad at all! How much HP is your n53 spec’ed at? Have you ever considered doing a diff swap from an automatic? That was the first mod I did on my car and made probably the most noticeable change of any mod I have done.

215hp and 199lb/ft of torque. I'd be reluctant to shorten the gearing as it's such a good highway cruiser and at constant highway speeds gives amazing fuel consumption thanks to direct injection (mid 40s mpg with 500 mile range to a tank).

[turducken54]

This is so nice