[srey]

Originally Posted by Pladi

I see what ur saying but more power should not be a reason for more failures. Both cars will run similar oil temps.. 100-120. C

There are V8s with tons of power on mechanical pumps.. running great. Too many to name. So nothing wrong with mechanical pump. BMW is going back to those.

Like everyone says. They cheap on some parts.. that's all. If they didn't it would be great.

VQ motors are legendary. Balance between power and performance. I don't hear any of those new Nissan V6 Turbo engines with so much issues. That's probably my next car. Performance and reliability.

I agree with you overall. It would be nice if there weren't so many issues with advanced technology in the N54. I think it was intended as a paradigm-shifting engine, which is why so many new things were being showcased in it.

My only knock on the VQ is that it's heavy. That exhaust note, though... I wish my car sounded like that.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by srey

I agree with you overall. It would be nice if there weren't so many issues with advanced technology in the N54. I think it was intended as a paradigm-shifting engine, which is why so many new things were being showcased in it.

My only knock on the VQ is that it's heavy. That exhaust note, though... I wish my car sounded like that.

The inline 6 sounds very nice. The vq is heavy and underpowered. The new line seems to be better. Bmw has so much more potential. The engine is incredibly balanced. Just needs better pluming and ignition.

If that was solid id never look for anything else.

[sorin1987]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

The E90 has been a tank so far.

Japanese cars aren't what they used to be. They are resting on their laurels. My parents have driven Hondas for 20+ years, and after my mom's 2011 Fit, they say it will be their last Honda. Poor quality issues all around including paint, suspension, squeaks and rattles, etc, especially for a car that has under 60k easy driven miles and is garaged.

Most of you guys are in USA. Last time I was in the US, a year ago, the Japanese cars I've seen there were nowhere near the same cars that we see on the roads in Europe, they have different names, they probably make a few models specially for the American market as the people there are used to different cars (automatic transmission, bigger engines, RWD, larger). The Hondas that are in the UK are the exact same ones that are on Japan's roads, especially since we both drive on the left side of the road and they don't even need to change the steering wheel.
My last Mazda is still in the family and has now 100k miles. Never ever have I changed a thing on that car (tyres, breaks and regular service, that's it.)
Normally I would not mind a more expensive bill for a car that drives so good and feels this sporty but my BMW has 70k and had so many problems I put the price of another small car into it.
Maybe I have just been unlucky and mine was a special case.
I am a member of another forum for Hondas and all the topics you see there are about tuning, what wheels look better, what upgrades people are doing etc. Meanwhile e90post is 80% "error code, what does it mean", "rant about X", "car doesn't start", "broken again", "turbo failed at 70k", "injectors failed, 2000$ bill", "am I safe to take a 300 miles trip or will be left stranded." etc etc.
I still love BMWs but because of their fragility I hate them. Everyone asks me about my car I tell them that is at the same time the best and worst car I've ever owned.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by sorin1987

Most of you guys are in USA. Last time I was in the US, a year ago, the Japanese cars I've seen there were nowhere near the same cars that we see on the roads in Europe, they have different names, they probably make a few models specially for the American market as the people there are used to different cars (automatic transmission, bigger engines, RWD, larger). The Hondas that are in the UK are the exact same ones that are on Japan's roads, especially since we both drive on the left side of the road and they don't even need to change the steering wheel.
My last Mazda is still in the family and has now 100k miles. Never ever have I changed a thing on that car (tyres, breaks and regular service, that's it.)
Normally I would not mind a more expensive bill for a car that drives so good and feels this sporty but my BMW has 70k and had so many problems I put the price of another small car into it.
Maybe I have just been unlucky and mine was a special case.
I am a member of another forum for Hondas and all the topics you see there are about tuning, what wheels look better, what upgrades people are doing etc. Meanwhile e90post is 80% "error code, what does it mean", "rant about X", "car doesn't start", "broken again", "turbo failed at 70k", "injectors failed, 2000$ bill", "am I safe to take a 300 miles trip or will be left stranded." etc etc.
I still love BMWs but because of their fragility I hate them. Everyone asks me about my car I tell them that is at the same time the best and worst car I've ever owned.

I have an opinion on what you said, since it is Honda and BMW. Maybe this is not relevant now, but during the 1990's my (now wife) and I ran a 1989 BMW 325i simultaneously with a 1989 Acura Integra (which is a Honda Civic). We bought the cars about 5 months apart from each other. The E30 was hers initially (I took it over in 1997) and the Integra was mine. I drove double the miles per year she did. At one point she moved to NYC for 3 years, so the 325i saw a lot of NYC traffic (which will kill a car right off). My Integra saw 90% highway miles. I sold the Integra sometime around 1998 after it accumulated 230,000 miles. Once I took over the E30 in early 1997 at 120,000 miles or so, I drove it until 2006 and 256,000 miles. While the E30 had a few more nagging issues than the Integra, mainly the antenna mast needed replacement a few times, my experience was the two cars were equal in reliability and maintenance, but the BMW's longevity far surpassed the Acura. The Intgera needed two right front halfshafts over its lifetime with me. The igniter failed (eventually was a Honda recall). The hatch wire loom kept breaking. The E30 needed antennas and there was a recall for the heater core. And the fuel pump failed at 220,000.

If I wasn't such a dumbass, I'd still have the E30 in the fleet. The Integra, I've never missed it since the last day I saw it 20 some odd years ago.

My 2 cents.

[sorin1987]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have an opinion on what you said, since it is Honda and BMW. Maybe this is not relevant now, but during the 1990's my (now wife) and I ran a 1989 BMW 325i simultaneously with a 1989 Acura Integra (which is a Honda Civic). We bought the cars about 5 months apart from each other. The E30 was hers initially (I took it over in 1997) and the Integra was mine. I drove double the miles per year she did. At one point she moved to NYC for 3 years, so the 325i saw a lot of NYC traffic (which will kill a car right off). My Integra saw 90% highway miles. I sold the Integra sometime around 1998 after it accumulated 230,000 miles. Once I took over the E30 in early 1997 at 120,000 miles or so, I drove it until 2006 and 256,000 miles. While the E30 had a few more nagging issues than the Integra, mainly the antenna mast needed replacement a few times, my experience was the two cars were equal in reliability and maintenance, but the BMW's longevity far surpassed the Acura. The Intgera needed two right front halfshafts over its lifetime with me. The igniter failed (eventually was a Honda recall). The hatch wire loom kept breaking. The E30 needed antennas and there was a recall for the heater core. And the fuel pump failed at 220,000.

If I wasn't such a dumbass, I'd still have the E30 in the fleet. The Integra, I've never missed it since the last day I saw it 20 some odd years ago.

My 2 cents.

I guess everybody has their own experience and maybe it even varies from car to car. To be honest, I wouldn't mind the extra upkeep if I had a garage and enough space for tools and jack but soon we will probably buy a house and I'll have my own garage where I can do some of the work myself.
Part of the expensive bills is the dealership price and BMW specialized garages that charge way more that the other car brands.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by delmarco

I have driven three BMW 3 series: 1995 318i E36 (up to 165,000 miles),a 2001 330i E46 (up to 96,000 miles) and my current 2011 335i E90 (has 56,000 miles).

I can say with out a doubt that my oldest car ever the E36 had ZERO cooling issues in the time I've owned it. At 165k it still had original water pump, radiator and thermostat (Only thing I replaced was the hoses prematurely).

My E46 coolant system gave out mainly at the 85k mark. Replaced the hoses, a cracked expansion tank, and prematurely replaced the original water pump (which still looked good after 10 years 80k+ miles in the car) with a Stewart EMP Water Pump.

My E90 at 50k miles had a leaky expansion tank and the water pump/thermostat failed. So there is that.

Sad thing is though the replacement coolant parts were $300(DIY) to $500 with shop labor for a full revamp of the E36 cars. On the E90 A full revamp of the cooling system was a about $500 (DIY) to $800 shop labor. On the E90 the water pump alone cost $500 to $800 and shops want $1000 to $1200 just for that labor alone so I couldn't even tell you what a full E90 cooling system revamp cost.

Sickening.....

That's why you DIY lol.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by sorin1987

Most of you guys are in USA. Last time I was in the US, a year ago, the Japanese cars I've seen there were nowhere near the same cars that we see on the roads in Europe, they have different names, they probably make a few models specially for the American market as the people there are used to different cars (automatic transmission, bigger engines, RWD, larger). The Hondas that are in the UK are the exact same ones that are on Japan's roads, especially since we both drive on the left side of the road and they don't even need to change the steering wheel.
My last Mazda is still in the family and has now 100k miles. Never ever have I changed a thing on that car (tyres, breaks and regular service, that's it.)
Normally I would not mind a more expensive bill for a car that drives so good and feels this sporty but my BMW has 70k and had so many problems I put the price of another small car into it.
Maybe I have just been unlucky and mine was a special case.
I am a member of another forum for Hondas and all the topics you see there are about tuning, what wheels look better, what upgrades people are doing etc. Meanwhile e90post is 80% "error code, what does it mean", "rant about X", "car doesn't start", "broken again", "turbo failed at 70k", "injectors failed, 2000$ bill", "am I safe to take a 300 miles trip or will be left stranded." etc etc.
I still love BMWs but because of their fragility I hate them. Everyone asks me about my car I tell them that is at the same time the best and worst car I've ever owned.

You nailed it. Bmw fan boys will never see it that way. All that maintenance u did on BMW they consider "regular maintenance". And they think every othrr make has those issues. Far from the truth. I know probably 10 people in Canada that have mazda 3s including myself. They just run for hundreds and thousands of miles with minimal wear tear. Yet Top of the line bmw sedan craps the bed before 50 with major cooling components breaking or leaking. In my eyes total disaster. Considering u pay top dollar.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Pladi

You nailed it. Bmw fan boys will never see it that way. All that maintenance u did on BMW they consider "regular maintenance". And they think every othrr make has those issues. Far from the truth. I know probably 10 people in Canada that have mazda 3s including myself. They just run for hundreds and thousands of miles with minimal wear tear. Yet Top of the line bmw sedan craps the bed before 50 with major cooling components breaking or leaking. In my eyes total disaster. Considering u pay top dollar.

Yeah.... but once again I agree where someone said it's not a apples to apples comparasion.

Yes the regular Mazda cars last longer without changing parts and all that but it has less HP and less. Take a 328i which I say is same ish HP (probably a bit more) and look the 328 doesn't have as much issues or gets them at a much longer interval than 335i .

Now if you compare mazdaspeed 3 to a 335i now it's a bit more close. Almost all my friends had some mazdaspeeds. One of them I did a pull against and his damn rear left brake line broke off the caliper lol. He says every time he does a race/pull there is always something that breaks.

Another friend had a mazdaspeed 6. His valves and turbo were having issues. Until he tried to drift like a moron in a parking lot haha.

I think the comparaisons being made are not really fully equal when people compare.

My other friend had a older Volvo S60r that did 350hp and he was getting Turbo issues and steering rack issues.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have an opinion on what you said, since it is Honda and BMW. Maybe this is not relevant now, but during the 1990's my (now wife) and I ran a 1989 BMW 325i simultaneously with a 1989 Acura Integra (which is a Honda Civic). We bought the cars about 5 months apart from each other. The E30 was hers initially (I took it over in 1997) and the Integra was mine. I drove double the miles per year she did. At one point she moved to NYC for 3 years, so the 325i saw a lot of NYC traffic (which will kill a car right off). My Integra saw 90% highway miles. I sold the Integra sometime around 1998 after it accumulated 230,000 miles. Once I took over the E30 in early 1997 at 120,000 miles or so, I drove it until 2006 and 256,000 miles. While the E30 had a few more nagging issues than the Integra, mainly the antenna mast needed replacement a few times, my experience was the two cars were equal in reliability and maintenance, but the BMW's longevity far surpassed the Acura. The Intgera needed two right front halfshafts over its lifetime with me. The igniter failed (eventually was a Honda recall). The hatch wire loom kept breaking. The E30 needed antennas and there was a recall for the heater core. And the fuel pump failed at 220,000.

If I wasn't such a dumbass, I'd still have the E30 in the fleet. The Integra, I've never missed it since the last day I saw it 20 some odd years ago.

My 2 cents.

Might as well start comparing the russian T34 tank and the german panzer 4...

We are taling about mazda 3 and e90 3 series. What is the relevance of going back to the 80s..

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Yeah.... but once again I agree where someone said it's not a apples to apples comparasion.

Yes the regular Mazda cars last longer and all that but it has less HP and less. Take a 328i which I say is same ish HP (probably a bit more) and look the 328 doesn't have as much issues or gets them at a much longer interval than 335i .
Now if you compare mazdaspeed 3 to a 335i now it's a bit more close. Almost all my friends had some mazdaspeeds. One of them I did a pull against and his damn rear left brake line broke off the caliper lol. He says every time he does a race/pull there is always something that breaks

Another friend had a mazdaspeed 6. His valves and turbo were having issues. Until he tried to drift like a moron in a parking lot haha.

I think the comparaisons being made are not really fully equal when people compare.

My other friend had a older Volvo S60r that did 350hp and he was getting Turbo issues and steering rack issues.

Dude i owned and raced mazdspeed 3. That car is the best comparison. Thank u for mentioning it. It was an amazing car. Took it to cayuga race track multiple times. It NEVER gave me issues. Also a turbo direct injected car with a hpfp. I went from that to bmw that i worry if i can make a road trip ... The mazda was fun and it performed with reliability. More bost at stock levels. Less problems. Thats as apple to apple as u can get.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMWs have never been categorized as "reliable". The entire existence of Lexus, Acura, and Infinity is based on that premise. The Japanese manufacturers during the fantastic US economy of the 1980's decided to build a less expensive, more reliable luxury brand than the Germans, namely Mercedes and BMW. Audi back then was a complete joke regarding reliability.

It's kind of funny when a person owns all of them. And is on all the forums. Tends to be biased too.

I own the Nissan VQ, purchased in March 1998, still have it.

I own a Lexus, purchsed 10/16, first V8 and first car I ever had with a timing belt.

I own a 335i purchased new in 12/06, and also a GM SUV. So German, Japanese, American.

Each forum is biased towards its own, with the GM one being so bad I just left.

At the end of the day, I would have to say the Japanese cars, at least mine, are set it, and forget it. Bought a 2006 Lexus with 80k on it, and nothing has broken in 31k except two corner parking sensors stopped working.

But I like to think that my Japanese cars, enable me to have a German one, meaning, say my ABS/DSC failed (it did 3 years ago this time). I am not disabled from getting to work, I can take 2 months to fix it in my garage, and do it right. It's also astounding how "affordable" some OEM German parts are, and how expensive, OE Japanese parts are, with OEM being almost unavailable or unverifiable. Like a $13 OEM brake sensor wire for a BMW. For lexus? $120 OE, or $9 aftermarket, no OEM.

And let's face it, the German car, is the "ONLY" fun one to drive, in my household.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Might as well start comparing the russian T34 tank and the german panzer 4...

We are taling about mazda 3 and e90 3 series. What is the relevance of going back to the 80s..

The Mazda 3 is a FWD under powered but sporty econobox car. The E90 is a RWD based luxury sport sedan. The Mazda 3 is a closer competitor with the VW Jetta.

They are aimed at two totally different markets. Personally, there are a lot of things I like about Hondas, but they certainly are not what they used to be, and the arrogance of their dealerships is horrific. While Japanese cars are generally more reliable, the quality of materials is just not there. It isn't because they are inferior, it is because they are built to a different price point (the economy cars are) and with different customers in mind (reliability and ease of maintenance vs. luxury).

[ryan stewart]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Can anyone here say they have not replaced any cooling components in over 120k ?

I did the waterpump and thermostat preventatively at 115k and I damaged the little vent hose that goes back to the tank. So two things that were still working just fine but I was about to be doing a TON of driving and wanted to play it safe and a part I broke myself.

Thats it in 120k (have since passed that mark). I was gonna do hoses but the parts guy told me not to so I just removed the hoses I had to remove to do the work.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Might as well start comparing the russian T34 tank and the german panzer 4...

We are taling about mazda 3 and e90 3 series. What is the relevance of going back to the 80s..

Well it was really the '90s.... But the relevence was comparing a Honda product to a BMW product that were owned, operated, and maintained during the same time period. Considering automotive companies and engineers all follow each other (nee SAE) it may be a relevent point of view still. The reply was to a post comparing Honda product to BMW product. What I said was, after relatively the same mileage on both brands, the BMW was in far better shape than the Acura. Based on my current experience with my E90, the car is still in fantastic shape for its age and mileage much the same as my E30 was. So for a period of almost 30 years of combined ownership of 2 BMW 3 series, I've found that two completely separate 3-series models have held up extremely well over time, which indicates to me BMW has remained consistent with it's build quality.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by John 070

It's kind of funny when a person owns all of them. And is on all the forums. Tends to be biased too.

I own the Nissan VQ, purchased in March 1998, still have it.

I own a Lexus, purchsed 10/16, first V8 and first car I ever had with a timing belt.

I own a 335i purchased new in 12/06, and also a GM SUV. So German, Japanese, American.

Each forum is biased towards its own, with the GM one being so bad I just left.

At the end of the day, I would have to say the Japanese cars, at least mine, are set it, and forget it. Bought a 2006 Lexus with 80k on it, and nothing has broken in 31k except two corner parking sensors stopped working.

But I like to think that my Japanese cars, enable me to have a German one, meaning, say my ABS/DSC failed (it did 3 years ago this time). I am not disabled from getting to work, I can take 2 months to fix it in my garage, and do it right. It's also astounding how "affordable" some OEM German parts are, and how expensive, OE Japanese parts are, with OEM being almost unavailable or unverifiable. Like a $13 OEM brake sensor wire for a BMW. For lexus? $120 OE, or $9 aftermarket, no OEM.

And let's face it, the German car, is the "ONLY" fun one to drive, in my household.

This is a very good point not many people mention, it is near impossible to get an OEM Japanese part!! It must be some loyalty agreement the suppliers have; you either get many times shitty aftermarket or raped at the dealer for the Japanese part.

Picture of a typical Mazda after 5 years: who cares if the car runs okay if the structure is bad its like buying a house with reliable appliances but with structural problems. I'd buy a boring Toyota before I would buy a Mazda.

[srey]

My next point caters to both sides of the argument, but man are BMW's easier to work on than Japanese cars. There is a logic to how you do everything on a BMW. I cringe whenever I had to fix something on my Accord or Sienna. A big part of that is transverse mounted V6's, but still. Maybe Japanese cars receive less maintenance just because it's a pain to do any of the wrench work. I've liked all my Japanese cars, but they haven't been fun like my 335i is fun.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well it was really the '90s.... But the relevence was comparing a Honda product to a BMW product that were owned, operated, and maintained during the same time period. Considering automotive companies and engineers all follow each other (nee SAE) it may be a relevent point of view still. The reply was to a post comparing Honda product to BMW product. What I said was, after relatively the same mileage on both brands, the BMW was in far better shape than the Acura. Based on my current experience with my E90, the car is still in fantastic shape for its age and mileage much the same as my E30 was. So for a period of almost 30 years of combined ownership of 2 BMW 3 series, I've found that two completely separate 3-series models have held up extremely well over time, which indicates to me BMW has remained consistent with it's build quality.

Let's be real though the older BMW are much more reliable than today it seems.

[hassmaschine]

I'd say they were pretty similar, at least N/A cars - I also have owned (and still do) E30s and E90s. Probably I have fixed a lot less stuff on my 330i than my E30, but I also raced and modified my E30 quite a bit. In any case the 330i is way less maintenance - longer oil changes, no timing belt, no valve adjustments, no cap and rotor, better diagnostics, etc.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I'd say they were pretty similar, at least N/A cars - I also have owned (and still do) E30s and E90s. Probably I have fixed a lot less stuff on my 330i than my E30, but I also raced and modified my E30 quite a bit. In any case the 330i is way less maintenance - longer oil changes, no timing belt, no valve adjustments, no cap and rotor, better diagnostics, etc.

Ok yeah I agree the elimination of having to adjust valves is good and the diagnostics things.

Most people do complain about all the ECUs but they do help. But then again some issues are because of those.

Anyways I'm kinda neutral on the subject. I do think there is Somme planned obsolesce on some things... like everything in our society but oh well, I plan to DIY everything so it won't cost as much and I'm fine with that. It's a really good car overall I like it.

Like I've said previously, as long as the engine doesn't go for no reason I'm happy.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Let's be real though the older BMW are much more reliable than today it seems.

Well any old BMW will not have a working original radio. My E90 radio is still going strong 12 years in (the pixels fade due to heat). My observation of 18 years of E30 ownership vs. 12.7 years of E90 ownership (but with 100,000 miles more on the E90), I'd say the two cars are about even. The E90 requires far less maintenance.

My wife's '97 Z3 is a world's away worse build quality than the E30. Horrible even compared to a 335i.

My '08 Z4 is a fantastically built automobile.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

I'd say they were pretty similar, at least N/A cars - I also have owned (and still do) E30s and E90s. Probably I have fixed a lot less stuff on my 330i than my E30, but I also raced and modified my E30 quite a bit. In any case the 330i is way less maintenance - longer oil changes, no timing belt, no valve adjustments, no cap and rotor, better diagnostics, etc.

1000% agree Hass.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Ok yeah I agree the elimination of having to adjust valves is good and the diagnostics things.

Most people do complain about all the ECUs but they do help. But then again some issues are because of those.

Anyways I'm kinda neutral on the subject. I do think there is Somme planned obsolesce on some things... like everything in our society but oh well, I plan to DIY everything so it won't cost as much and I'm fine with that. It's a really good car overall I like it.

Like I've said previously, as long as the engine doesn't go for no reason I'm happy.

I think people are willfully ignorant on the computers/modules. It makes no sense. People are on their smartphones or work PCs, probably doing work on a computer all day long, but do everything in their power to avoid understanding the electronics in their car.. which for a BMW, is widely documented.

What I find especially hilarious is how people say the E46 was "analog" and "simple". Uhh, it's just as full as computers and modules as any BMW has been since the E24 6 series. The best part is the modules on the newer cars are actually *easier* to work with in most cases than the older ones are, because they are more standardized and are used across models, where the E46 was kind of piece-meal and inconsistent. Besides, BMWs haven't been "analog" since the 1970s..