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      07-18-2018, 02:25 PM   #419
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One has to remember that German Army got to within 15-20km of Moscows administrive boarder. During the Cold War Ivan had plenty of fighting room to oppose an invading Western Army. Now with these former Eastern Bloc country's becoming members of NATO it reduces the Russians chances of stopping a Western Invasion.
I wouldn't want to go to War to defend some former Eastern Bloc country. On the up side if Ivan does decide he wants to take Continentel Eurpoe into the soviet family & America decides to turn a blind eye, I have the English Channel to keep me safe from the Russian hordes....having said that I suspect that with the collapse of the Soviet Union a whole lot of soviet sleeper agents found there way into the West & many of these would have had children loyal to Russia that have found their way into positions of power & influnce isn't mister trumps daughter the child of a former resident of a soviet country?
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      07-18-2018, 02:49 PM   #420
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https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/statu...610074624?s=08

I can't even...

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      07-18-2018, 03:54 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Sorry - I'm completely lost. Perhaps you could plainly state your point(s), vs. analogies and obfuscation?
Give me a break, you really need it spelled out for you?
Yes?
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      07-18-2018, 03:55 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
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Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Dude, I don't have the patience to listen to that again. He just rambles on, on, and on, never hits a fact and then Tucker says why should his son die for MN, and Trump agrees with him.

Newsflash, article five. That's it. He just said in his beautiful way that that doesn't matter and Russia will act on that.
Speaking of missing the context. It's not like this is the only thing Trump has said to cast doubt on whether he will honor article 5 or not.
"Cast doubt" - meaning further speculation, right? His previous comments on Article 5 also had to do with who is paying for NATO...
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      07-18-2018, 03:56 PM   #423
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You're COMPLETELY taking his comments out-of-context:

Dude, I don't have the patience to listen to that again. He just rambles on, on, and on, never hits a fact and then Tucker says why should his son die for MN, and Trump agrees with him.

Newsflash, article five. That's it. He just said in his beautiful way that that doesn't matter and Russia will act on that.
I seriously doubt it. Again, Trump's comments were made largely in relation to who pays for NATO.
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      07-18-2018, 03:58 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Speaking of missing the context. It's not like this is the only thing Trump has said to cast doubt on whether he will honor article 5 or not.
Yeah that's why Baltic countries are now in an uproar and my biceps hurt. It's hot as in pool boys thong here AND I HAVE TO GO FOR A FUCKING RUN!!!!! with my luck, it'll be a fucking winter war and I get to haul those fucking snow bunnys nightmare gears around, after dying this summer in dehydration and over active whining gland!

I'll save bmwbb the trouble and add his #whinybitch tag to this one.
#whineybitch


FTFY.
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      07-18-2018, 04:05 PM   #425
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#whineybitch


FTFY.
I can fucking typo your hastag if I can't after years type your handle straight!
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You're still a little new here, so I'll let you in on a little secret. Whenever Lups types gibberish, this is an opportunity for you to imagine it to be whatever you'd like it to be.
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      07-18-2018, 04:09 PM   #426
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WTH.. Illegals don't have the same rights as citizens. This is nothing new.
Illegals don't have ALL of the same rights as citizens, but the Constitution and US law does guarantee SOME of the same rights as citizens.

For example, the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection, due process, free public education to illegal aliens (Wong Wing v. United States, 163 U.S. 228 (1896), Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982)). Federal law also provides emergency medical services to illegal aliens (42 U.S.C. Section 1395dd) and allows illegal aliens to make tort/negligence claims against an employee of the Federal government (28 U.S.C. Section 1346 et al).

The main rights that illegal aliens don't enjoy are voting, government jobs, and (likely) gun ownership.
Hopefully Congress, at some point, will rectify some of this federal/SCOTUS overreach....

Education funding comes from the states, yet the feds mandate that they must pay to educate children of illegals. The feds control the border, not the states; when the feds refuse to enforce illegal immigration laws and deportations, the states can't step in. Border states suffer disproportionately under this system, and therefore their citizens and taxpayers.

Unfunded mandates by the feds - what bullshit.
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      07-18-2018, 04:14 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by Chappers 71 View Post
One has to remember that German Army got to within 15-20km of Moscows administrive boarder. During the Cold War Ivan had plenty of fighting room to oppose an invading Western Army. Now with these former Eastern Bloc country's becoming members of NATO it reduces the Russians chances of stopping a Western Invasion.
I wouldn't want to go to War to defend some former Eastern Bloc country. On the up side if Ivan does decide he wants to take Continentel Eurpoe into the soviet family & America decides to turn a blind eye, I have the English Channel to keep me safe from the Russian hordes....having said that I suspect that with the collapse of the Soviet Union a whole lot of soviet sleeper agents found there way into the West & many of these would have had children loyal to Russia that have found their way into positions of power & influnce isn't mister trumps daughter the child of a former resident of a soviet country?
I'm positive his daughter is a loyal sleeper agent. Because who wouldn't want to trade a privileged NYC upbringing for life in the old USSR?
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      07-18-2018, 04:17 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
#whineybitch


FTFY.
I can fucking typo your hastag if I can't after years type your handle straight!
#hopeless
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      07-18-2018, 04:20 PM   #429
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I'm positive his daughter is a loyal sleeper agent. Because who wouldn't want to trade a privileged NYC upbringing for life in the old USSR?
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      07-19-2018, 03:40 AM   #430
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You identified what weakened NATO - I did the same.

As to "did this meeting help or hurt?"

It was ONE MEETING. And, we don't know what was said in the meeting, behind closed doors. I wouldn't expect Trump to spank Putin in front of the international media; that wouldn't be very smart, would it? Putin probably wouldn't react very well to that, would he? The US (and much of the international) media have spent the past 18 months demonizing Putin - he's likely pretty sick of it. In fact, it likely started with stupid Hillary as Secretary of State, giving him the misspelled "reset" button - and pissed him off back then.

If you thought your neighbor was an asshole, would you start a relationship with him by yelling at him on his front lawn, or perhaps inviting him over for a relationship building session, and hope to help him see that you need to live in peace?
You realize, that in no way I'm against the summit and against building a relationship, or?
Please re-read my comments, I - as many others in this thread - are talking about nuance, about taking a stand on certain topics.

In a civilized meeting/discussion, it is possible to express concerns, to make your point - without making the partner in this conversation your enemy.

Like that neighbor, who you can invite, but also whom you can tell during the invite, that blocking your driveway is very inconvenient.

But maybe in times like these, only the loudest and strongest argument settles...

[as an example, EU criticised Putin and still kept the dialogue: https://www.ft.com/content/35e8399a-...c-bdf38d484582]
[Germany reminded PRC of human rights during trade visits and even offered asylum to Liu Xia (what an offense - and yet, both governments continue their talks): https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/11/w...issidents.html ]
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      07-19-2018, 08:31 AM   #431
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So for all of you who defended Trump when he didn't say anything to Putin about the meddling and thought that liberals shouldn't want him to put any pressure at all on Russia, what is your opinion now when Trump said that he believes Putin was personally responsible for the election meddling? He's also bragging about how no US President in history has been tougher on Russia than he has.

Is that a good thing now or is it still bad?
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      07-19-2018, 09:17 AM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
"Cast doubt" - meaning further speculation, right? His previous comments on Article 5 also had to do with who is paying for NATO...

Do I need to quote the numbers again? The amount "we're paying for NATO" is budget dust when it comes to defense spending. The "everyone needs to pay their share" is a convenient distraction and nothing more.

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      07-19-2018, 09:29 AM   #433
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So for all of you who defended Trump when he didn't say anything to Putin about the meddling and thought that liberals shouldn't want him to put any pressure at all on Russia, what is your opinion now when Trump said that he believes Putin was personally responsible for the election meddling? He's also bragging about how no US President in history has been tougher on Russia than he has.

Is that a good thing now or is it still bad?
And - since we don't know what went on behind closed doors, does anyone really know, or is it fitting the trump-hater narrative?
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      07-19-2018, 10:04 AM   #434
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And - since we don't know what went on behind closed doors, does anyone really know, or is it fitting the trump-hater narrative?
Nothing in my post referred to anything that was said that we don't know about, I asked what you think about what Trump has said publically.

He's cleary saying things now that the "Trump haters" wanted him to say at the meeting, and since the thought of him saying these things was apparently such a terrible thing two days ago I'm just wondering if you still think so today?
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      07-19-2018, 10:22 AM   #435
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Nothing in my post referred to anything that was said that we don't know about, I asked what you think about what Trump has said publically.

He's cleary saying things now that the "Trump haters" wanted him to say at the meeting, and since the thought of him saying these things was apparently such a terrible thing two days ago I'm just wondering if you still think so today?
They are just fine with flip flopping. When you worship somebody they can do no wrong.

So when does WW3 start? Isn't that what was going to happen if Trump stood up to Putin on this issue?
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      07-19-2018, 10:40 AM   #436
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Russians have been meddling in our elections for YEARS so this is nothing new. In San Fran they are going to allow illegal aliens to vote in school elections. I know some of you are saying "it's just school elections" but NO because this will be just the start. So it boggles my mind how people on the left can be so damn worried about foreigners meddling in our elections, while at the same time given illegal the right to vote.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/state/ca...215095600.html

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...elections.html

https://nypost.com/2018/07/18/san-fr...ool-elections/
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      07-19-2018, 11:13 AM   #437
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I don't support illegal immigrants having the right to vote, and I do not support allowing Russia to interfere with our election process.
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      07-19-2018, 11:15 AM   #438
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I don't support illegal immigrants having the right to vote, and I do not support allowing Russia to interfere with our election process.
Agreed. I don't support legal immigrants who are non-citizens voting either, for that matter.

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      07-19-2018, 11:27 AM   #439
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I don't support illegal immigrants having the right to vote, and I do not support allowing Russia to interfere with our election process.
First of all, the funny thing is that if Hillary Clinton had won the election, there would be no discussion about Russian interference - period.

Secondly, "interference' seems to take on a very different meaning depending on who is talking about it and what their agenda is. Is it interference when the voting machines are hacked into? When the ballots are tampered with? When people are not allowed to vote? When a candidate is stonewalled by the party? When someone calls a candidate a bad name? When someone releases damaging info on a candidate at the 11th hour? What is interference? What did Russia do? What did the GOP do? What did the DNC do? People seem to want to call interference something that disrupts their candidate from winning.
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      07-19-2018, 11:29 AM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
First of all, the funny thing is that if Hillary Clinton had won the election, there would be no discussion about Russian interference - period.

Secondly, "interference' seems to take on a very different meaning depending on who is talking about it and what their agenda is. Is it interference when the voting machines are hacked into? When the ballots are tampered with? When people are not allowed to vote? When a candidate is stonewalled by the party? When someone calls a candidate a bad name? When someone releases damaging info on a candidate at the 11th hour? What is interference? What did Russia do? What did the GOP do? What did the DNC do? People seem to want to call interference something that disrupts their candidate from winning.
Objection, your honor. That is assuming facts not in evidence....
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