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      01-13-2018, 05:24 PM   #1
justpete
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m3 steering rack and caster

Anybody run one of these on an e9x non-M and have camber plates with caster adjusted to full positive? And without hooking up the Servotronic?
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      01-13-2018, 09:40 PM   #2
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do it and let me know :P
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      01-13-2018, 11:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
do it and let me know :P
I think the answer's in this thread

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1137304&page=3

Tried to delete this topic but couldn't after I read through it.
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      01-14-2018, 12:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
I think the answer's in this thread

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...1137304&page=3

Tried to delete this topic but couldn't after I read through it.
Yea, I read that thread a while ago. Seems like a lot of tinkering with the coding and electrical to get the servo to work properly. Just not sure if it is worth the trouble for a dual use car like mine.

Personally I think the steering ratio is fine unless you autocross a lot. Getting rid of the stock bushings improve the feel more than changing the steering ratio on these cars IMO.
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      01-14-2018, 01:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud9blue View Post
Yea, I read that thread a while ago. Seems like a lot of tinkering with the coding and electrical to get the servo to work properly. Just not sure if it is worth the trouble for a dual use car like mine.

Personally I think the steering ratio is fine unless you autocross a lot. Getting rid of the stock bushings improve the feel more than changing the steering ratio on these cars IMO.
Bottom line for me is that without a steering angle sensor servotronic is irrelevant so that removes one buncha crap to deal with.

Caster was 8.3deg at one point and then back to 7deg at another and it didn't seem to matter terribly at low speed once the driver was used to it which is what I was concerned about since the Vorshlags are now set all the way to the rear.

The slow steering drives me nutz so I'm looking forward to the M3 rack to make rotation a bit easier to effect.
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      01-14-2018, 12:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Bottom line for me is that without a steering angle sensor servotronic is irrelevant so that removes one buncha crap to deal with.
If I'm understanding correctly you are driving with steering angle sensor disabled ?
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      01-14-2018, 01:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by feuer View Post
If I'm understanding correctly you are driving with steering angle sensor disabled ?
Yes. Best mod, evah!
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      01-14-2018, 01:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Yes. Best mod, evah!
How is the ABS module liking that?
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      01-14-2018, 01:43 PM   #9
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How is the ABS module liking that?
ABS and stability are totally non-functional, thankfully. This is one of the things I was trying to find a way to do to begin with, didn't realize it was so easy to do. Of course it kills hill assist which makes things exciting with that clutch and self-canceling turn signals don't work anymore so I have to remember to do it manually since you can't hear them at all but hardly a concern in return for the benefits.
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      01-15-2018, 04:27 PM   #10
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Servo assist is a creature comfort for an expensive car... The steering isn't that heavy to warrant going through all the effort...

You seem to be worried about steering effort AT SPEED? You really only need to be concerned about being at a DEAD standstill. The slightest roll and the wheel is easy enough to turn. Concerns about steering weight are grossly overstated unless you've got the bones and muscle structure of an 85 year old and you NEVER leave parkinglots/driveways.
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      01-15-2018, 05:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Servo assist is a creature comfort for an expensive car... The steering isn't that heavy to warrant going through all the effort...

You seem to be worried about steering effort AT SPEED? You really only need to be concerned about being at a DEAD standstill. The slightest roll and the wheel is easy enough to turn. Concerns about steering weight are grossly overstated unless you've got the bones and muscle structure of an 85 year old and you NEVER leave parkinglots/driveways.
Never said anything about effort at speed, no idea where you get that. It's a track car with a cage I can drive on the street so it's pretty obvious steering effort isn't a concern. Front brake cooling limits steering lock to begin with and there's no parallel parking around here so who cares. Querying only those doing this _and_ with max positive caster.

I'm assuming the wheel will be easy to turn since there is hydraulic assist, even at a standstill and with maximum positive caster. Assumed the Servotronic wasn't necessary in that it's for ease of low speed turning although I've never understood the necessity of that.
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      01-16-2018, 12:37 AM   #12
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bbnks2 and justpete have your driven your cars without hydraulic power assist?
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      01-16-2018, 12:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
bbnks2 and justpete have your driven your cars without hydraulic power assist?
No, hadn't intended to but it's a possibility.
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      01-16-2018, 01:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
No, hadn't intended to but it's a possibility.
Well I have not driven driven either, just moved few around the shop that had broken servo pumps. I must say that you quickly learn to appreciate the assist. I don't think neither of us would like the steering with out assist on these cars as daily drivers. Or even track only because front end is heavy and we usually all run oversized tires.
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      01-16-2018, 01:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Well I have not driven driven either, just moved few around the shop that had broken servo pumps. I must say that you quickly learn to appreciate the assist. I don't think neither of us would like the steering with out assist on these cars as daily drivers. Or even track only because front end is heavy and we usually all run oversized tires.
Agreed which is why I never intended to ditch the hydraulic assist. The Servotronic assist will be eliminated simply by leaving it disconnected which is fine by me.
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      01-16-2018, 02:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
bbnks2 and justpete have your driven your cars without hydraulic power assist?
Yes, it's a night and day difference... without hydraulic assist you can't realistically drive the car lol

Servo assist, if made to work, would compliment the hydraulic power steering at low speeds. It is not a substitute... Like I said, servo assist is just a creature comfort to keep the executives and CEO's that own M cars happy. The Servo "boost" kicks in to reduce steering effort at low speeds. You can delete servo assist on M3's... people have been doing it for years because they don't like the feel of the boost at low speeds.
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Last edited by bbnks2; 01-16-2018 at 02:46 PM.
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      01-16-2018, 02:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Yes, it's a night and day difference... without hydraulic assist you can't realistically drive the car lol

Servo assist, if made to work, would compliment the hydraulic assist at low speeds. It is not a substitute...Like I said, servo assist is just a creature comfort to keep the executives and CEO's that own M cars happy. The Servo "boost" kicks in to reduce steering effort at low speeds. You can delete servo assist on M3's... people have been doing it for years because they don't like the feel of the added steering boost at low speeds.
Can't imagine anyone wanting to, weird idea there...lol

Servotronic must be for moms at the mall or something, baffled as to the point of it.

Oh, and it looks like cost is about $2620 with a few hours of dealership labor at my discounted rate. Not bad.
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      01-16-2018, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Can't imagine anyone wanting to, weird idea there...lol

Servotronic must be for moms at the mall or something, baffled as to the point of it.

Oh, and it looks like cost is about $2620 with a few hours of dealership labor at my discounted rate. Not bad.
I love the feel. Go for it. I wish I had done it sooner, but I only really replaced mine because it was leaking and I finally had enough of topping off the fluid lol... Power steering fluid is expensive.

Also, I saw you linked to an install thread. Just a note, I HAD TO break off the plastic tab on the rack. If I didn't, the rack would only have bolted up in a "clocked" orientation. I broke the tab off and mounted the rack at dead center of its range of movement. The steering wheel takes exactly 2.25 turns in either direction to full lock. Maybe 1-series needs to break the tab off to properly clock the rack and 3-series doesn't? I don't know for sure, but make sure you install the rack dead center or you'll hit full-lock quicker in 1 direction than the other lol....

Also, take this as an opportunity to installed some MYLE upgraded tie-rod ends. They are cheap enough and this is the ideal time to do it.
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      01-16-2018, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
I love the feel. Go for it. I wish I had done it sooner, but I only really replaced mine because it was leaking and I finally had enough of topping off the fluid lol... Power steering fluid is expensive.

Also, I saw you linked to an install thread. Just a note, I HAD TO break off the plastic tab on the rack. If I didn't, the rack would only have bolted up in a "clocked" orientation. I broke the tab off and mounted the rack at dead center of its range of movement. The steering wheel takes exactly 2.25 turns in either direction to full lock. Maybe 1-series needs to break the tab off to properly clock the rack and 3-series doesn't? I don't know for sure, but make sure you install the rack dead center or you'll hit full-lock quicker in 1 direction than the other lol....

Also, take this as an opportunity to installed some MYLE upgraded tie-rod ends. They are cheap enough and this is the ideal time to do it.
The dealership race team car chief does all the work on my car. They've been building BMW race cars for many many years and they do a shitload of custom work, etc. so they'll get it done correctly no matter what they have to do. Classic BMW in Plano, TX Classic BMW Racing

Not impressed with Myle, will use new stock parts.
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      01-16-2018, 03:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbnks2 View Post
Maybe 1-series needs to break the tab off to properly clock the rack and 3-series doesn't? I don't know for sure
To my knowledge they all do in order to be centered. Also I believe early models m3 was available with out the servo assist at low speeds.
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      01-16-2018, 03:19 PM   #21
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Oh, and it looks like cost is about $2620 with a few hours of dealership labor at my discounted rate. Not bad.
wow that is expensive. Would not you consider DIY or competent independent mechanic shop?
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      01-16-2018, 03:23 PM   #22
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wow that is expensive. Would not you consider DIY or competent independent mechanic shop?
It's negligible to me, I'm paid more than twice the equivalent hourly rate so I'd have to be nuts to do it myself w/o a lift. And I only use new parts from the dealership for any project. Wouldn't use anyone else, no one's as good as these guys, period.
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