|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Today's Posts | Search |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
Road to 600+ WHP
|
|
05-10-2018, 06:58 PM | #1 |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
Road to 600+ WHP
Hello, summer is coming up and I plan on going north of 600whp with an ethanol mix. Car currently has VRSF CP, 5' FMIC, Dual Kompact, aFe dps, PE exhaust mod, dci, mhd stage 2+, xHP stage 3, and stage 2 lpfp. I'm hoping to upgrade turbos. My concern is what is more efficient money wise, single or twin turbos? I'm leaning towards twin since im in LA and there's almost always traffic and the power from single turbo doesn't come till later. Would anything else besides turbos be required to get 600whp, and would any internals need to be replaced? I saw a thread the engine is good until 800whp, but I don't know what threads to believe anymore Also, anyone recommend any brands, pure, mmp, etc
|
05-10-2018, 07:23 PM | #3 |
Private First Class
39
Rep 108
Posts |
There's another forum that is better for those high HP build goals than this website but it's censored on here so I can't link it(hint: nickname for BMWs that's pronounced "beamer" + boost .com) if you want more in depth guidance and build feedback, but the people there aren't all quite as friendly as on here and theres a fair share more drama allowed.
That said for 600whp I think you could go either way as long as its a stage 2+ turbo/s setup and you're sticking with e85 blends. I definitely wouldn't expect longevity or anything close to OEM-like reliability (meaning like 30k+ miles) at that power level from the current aftermarket twin turbos though, IDK how the current single sets fair either. It seems to me like most cars running that power level are either track cars or dragy/vbox cars and normally have kinks being worked out pretty consistently from what I've read. The stock engine internals will be fine and I believe the AT transmission can handle it too but lots of their posts talk about sorting out one issue or another, maybe that's cause they all want even higher numbers though. As for recommending brands I don't have any personal experience but Rob from RB has a running post on there explaining amount of turbos, time in production, and complaints/failures that seems to say their newer turbos have almost no complaints. There seems to be a pretty even mix of people running RB and VTT that both claim theirs is best and the other company is garbage because of x and y so do some looking into things and decide for yourself if you're gonna be dropping that kinda money and time. I haven't personally heard much about Pure lately but I've also noticed a lot less shit talking to or from them too so it could be a case of the silent minority vs the quiet majority but I really don't have a clue there. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-10-2018, 07:24 PM | #4 |
Captain
127
Rep 865
Posts
Drives: BMW X3 35i, Porsche Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Scottsdale AZ
|
Pure twin turbos should safely get you close to your power goals.
__________________
MOTIV 750 ST | MOTIV PI | 100% E85 | Fuel-it Stage 4 LPFP | MOTIV Boost Box + MHD Protune | Quaife | Öhlins | Brembo | Akrapovic
|
Appreciate
1
feuer4275.50 |
05-10-2018, 07:28 PM | #5 | |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-10-2018, 07:35 PM | #6 | |
Private First Class
39
Rep 108
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-10-2018, 07:38 PM | #7 | |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-10-2018, 07:40 PM | #8 |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-10-2018, 09:00 PM | #9 |
Captain
127
Rep 865
Posts
Drives: BMW X3 35i, Porsche Macan S
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Scottsdale AZ
|
Pure seems to have the best reputation for reliability with upgraded twins. Some people have good luck with other brands but it can be hit or miss. Don’t cheap out since it’s no fun to replace defective turbos after only a few thousand miles.
__________________
MOTIV 750 ST | MOTIV PI | 100% E85 | Fuel-it Stage 4 LPFP | MOTIV Boost Box + MHD Protune | Quaife | Öhlins | Brembo | Akrapovic
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-10-2018, 09:46 PM | #11 |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
Doesn't it cost more than twin? Since I have to get a new manifold and switch some of the piping?
__________________
IG: LA335i
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-11-2018, 12:25 AM | #12 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1932
Rep 1,532
Posts |
We've got lots of stage 2 and 2+ kicking around, I think highest mileage on them that I've heard of is just under 55k, couple near 50k, tons in the 30k range, including my own. There is a lot to be said for keeping things reasonable expectation wise (i.e. if you max a turbo, it just won't last as long as if you keep it closer to reasonable shaft speeds), maintenance, and of course proper install.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-11-2018, 02:50 AM | #13 | |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
IG: LA335i
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-11-2018, 06:35 AM | #15 |
Banned
148
Rep 388
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-11-2018, 08:13 AM | #16 |
Lieutenant
162
Rep 513
Posts
Drives: 08 335i
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Atlanta
|
Personally I'd look at a single bottom mount as well. But that's just personal preference. What are you going to do about your Tranny? You have an AUTO. Are they built well enough to withstand that kind of torque?
__________________
2008 335i E93, DP's, 7" FMIC, DCI,CP TIAL Q BOV, MHD Stage 2+, Alpina Flash
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-11-2018, 02:20 PM | #17 |
First Lieutenant
58
Rep 360
Posts |
That is the other factor I'm considering and unsure of. How much whp and tq can an AT run without pushing it too much. I'd like to do mid 500s as dd, or is that too much for it to handle?
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-11-2018, 11:36 PM | #18 |
Private First Class
39
Rep 108
Posts |
I think the AT trans is still good at that point if you aren't beating on it at the track and especially if you're shooting for mid 500 instead of 600-650. I recall seeing a high 700-low 800 whp car that still had the stock AT on it with an xhp flash. xHP might even be necessary at that power level honestly so you don't experience too much slip, but everything will take more wear and tear at that power level vs stock or FBO obviously so taking care of it will be even more important than normal.
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-12-2018, 12:42 PM | #19 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
1932
Rep 1,532
Posts |
Quote:
Any of our turbos at/above Stage 2 will make 600+ on ethanol (2, 2+. GC lite, GC's, Stage 3). If I can help, feel free to shoot me an email, I'm happy to discuss options and what we can do for you. Chris |
|
Appreciate
0
|
05-12-2018, 10:31 PM | #20 |
Private First Class
39
Rep 108
Posts |
https://facebook.com/story.php?story...04687949793196
Hopefully that settles your worries about the stock AT trans (spoiler: over 800whp and breaking track records). In regards to the above post, I agree with Chris in his earlier post about how it's good not to Max out a Turbo and in this most recent one about emissions focused gas being absolutely garbage but you've already said you're willing to run E blends right? If that's the case I'd personally invest in the necessary fuel system requirements to run more ethanol (maybe even straight e85) and save the money while getting the benefits of e blends, rather than going with a more expensive Turbo set than you originally planned on that's designed for 1/4 mile passes and hoping it'll last you another 100k. Chris is a very nice guy and obviously very knowledgeable but like all the vendors he's also paid to get people like you to drop more money on VTT products, and to a lesser extent I've heard (and seen) nothing a lot of horror stories involving Tony and people running into problems with VTT turbos not meeting their expectations. Which again, even if VTT turbos are well built which I'm sure they are, I'm personally still of the mind that anyone expecting them to last nearly as long as OEM/mitsu while trying to make 650whp on a DD will run in to that. |
Appreciate
0
|
05-13-2018, 01:23 PM | #22 |
Private First Class
39
Rep 108
Posts |
Out of curiosity, which brand? And how much boost were/are they normally run at + what supporting mods? I'm assuming by the time you did the turbos you were FBO (or at least catless DP, DCI and FMIC) and I know the inlet options we have now make a big difference in longevity of these aftermarket turbos but I'm curious as to how much outlets and other things help in the long run.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
Tags |
335i, e90, fbo, n54, turbo |
|
|