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      02-26-2020, 02:06 PM   #1
JohnGrayo
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e90 blower motor not working

Hi, I have an 08 335i sedan, blower motor is not working, I replaced the FSR and lubricated the shaft and it is still not working. The wires appear to have already been repaired for recall. I jumped the +,- from the fsr to motor and it ran at full speed so I know the motor is fine. Any way to test signal wire to FSR from HVAC unit, or is the HVAC unit in the dash itself the issue? thanks
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      02-26-2020, 02:50 PM   #2
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How’s your battery? What happens if you press the front defrost button on HVAC? I ask because our cars will begin eliminating “non-essential” consumers when they believe their ability to start may be imperilled. The blower motor is one of these things, but for safety reasons hitting the defrost button will still function.

Yes, there are ways to test HVAC functions using INPA.
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      02-26-2020, 04:03 PM   #3
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TIS Blower Motor Circuit, 2008 335i E90

Here is the TIS schematic for M30 Blower Motor, bottom Left of schematic:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/ufClUrJ

As you are probably aware, there was a recall announced in late 2017 for Blower Motor Harness Replacement. RCRIT describing procedure to be followed is attached. First thing I would do is check online to see if your vehicle has had that recall performed:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

Then test at Blower Motor Connector, X18722 for each of the following:
1) Continuity to Ground at Pin #1, Brown wire, of Connector X18722;
2) 12V+ at the Red/Violet wire at Pin #2 of Connector X18722 (fuse F88);
3) If BOTH 12V+ & ground are OK, if you have a meter that can test Duty Cycle of the White/Brown PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) control wire from the DME, test that at High Speed Manual A/C Control Panel setting vs. Low Speed Blower Speed setting, OR simply measure Voltage of that wire in reference to Chassis Ground, and see if voltage changes with speed setting. Here is the TIS "Connector View" for that X18722 Connector:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/CT7WvuoC

The Recall was supposed to change the ENTIRE 12V+ Supply wire and also Ground wire, NOT just the Connector. The issue was overheating at the connector, with MELTING of the connector/insulation. Prior to the recall, a prior owner or shop may have simply replaced the connector. OR, the recall may have been performed with something NOT properly done related to NEW connections at the Connector at the firewall side of the JB (Junction Box).

Please let us know what you find,
George
Attached Images
File Type: pdf RCRIT-17V676-0612 Blower.pdf (3.14 MB, 33 views)
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      02-26-2020, 04:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Here is the TIS schematic for M30 Blower Motor, bottom Left of schematic:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/ufClUrJ

As you are probably aware, there was a recall announced in late 2017 for Blower Motor Harness Replacement. RCRIT describing procedure to be followed is attached. First thing I would do is check online to see if your vehicle has had that recall performed:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

Then test at Blower Motor Connector, X18722 for each of the following:
1) Continuity to Ground at Pin #1, Brown wire, of Connector X18722;
2) 12V+ at the Red/Violet wire at Pin #2 of Connector X18722 (fuse F88);
3) If BOTH 12V+ & ground are OK, if you have a meter that can test Duty Cycle of the White/Brown PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) control wire from the DME, test that at High Speed Manual A/C Control Panel setting vs. Low Speed Blower Speed setting, OR simply measure Voltage of that wire in reference to Chassis Ground, and see if voltage changes with speed setting. Here is the TIS "Connector View" for that X18722 Connector:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/CT7WvuoC

The Recall was supposed to change the ENTIRE 12V+ Supply wire and also Ground wire, NOT just the Connector. The issue was overheating at the connector, with MELTING of the connector/insulation. Prior to the recall, a prior owner or shop may have simply replaced the connector. OR, the recall may have been performed with something NOT properly done related to NEW connections at the Connector at the firewall side of the JB (Junction Box).

Please let us know what you find,
George
No, the entire wire rarely gets replaced. The entire wire only gets replaced if the insulation has been burned off. If the wiring looks normal, or is only discoloured, only the connector gets replaced.
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      02-26-2020, 07:02 PM   #5
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I took the battery out and charged it overnight because I saw this was a possibility, but no luck. I also just went out to double check and the defrost on the HVAC did not cause the blower motor to function. So it leads me to believe there is either a problem with the signal wire or HVAC unit itself...
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      02-27-2020, 02:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
No, the entire wire rarely gets replaced. The entire wire only gets replaced if the insulation has been burned off. If the wiring looks normal, or is only discoloured, only the connector gets replaced.
The OP, JohnGrayo, says he is in Delaware, in the US, subject to US laws related to Mandatory Recalls per requirements of the NHTSA (National Highway Transportation Safety Administration). His vehicle is subject to that recall. The BMW Dealer and its Tech performing the recall are obligated to:
1) Repair the vehicle PURSUANT to the agreed Procedure as described in RCRIT-17V676-0612 which I attached to my prior post.
2) Certify to the NHTSA that the Procedure has been performed exactly in the manner provided in the RCRIT. "It Looked OK to ME" is NOT good enough.

You indicate you are located in Montreal (Canada I presume). I don't know if you have performed any NHTSA recalls, or read any RCRITS with Recall performance Procedures that MUST be followed exactly and certified as such, but you could at least read the RCRIT I provided before you say: "NO, BS, BS, BS."

The FIRST provision in the Procedure, found at the top of page 6, states:
MEASURE:
The blower regulator and its corresponding wire harness must be replaced. Donít disconnect the regulator from the wire harness connector, but cut the wire harness. The disassembled parts have to be returned to WPRC.
The 5 page procedure has photos & step-by-step instructions that make it quite clear EXACTLY what is to be done in performance of the Recall Procedure. It even specifies the tools to be used, and references preliminary procedures, by BMW reference number, such as disconnecting the battery removal of glovebox, and then goes on to specify the BMW procedure for removing the Junction Box (so Tech can access a connector on the firewall side to INSTALL NEW HARNESS.

John, NOTE that the RCRIT, at TOP of pdf page 7, which is page 2 of the Repair Procedure, indicates to CUT the White/Brown wire, which is the PWM Blower Speed signal from the IHKA Module, and it is then SPLICED into the NEW Wiring Harness per the steps shown on pages 3 & 4 of the Procedure, beside the photos of the crimping tool.

If testing of the White/Brown wire per my prior post indicates NO change in PWM signal when blower speed is changed on Control Panel, it is possible that crimp is faulty (IF Recall has been performed). If recall has NOT been performed, I would have that done as soon as possible and perhaps the issue will be rectified by rewiring, OR the Dealer will at least provide a quick diagnosis.

Please let us know what you find,
George
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      02-27-2020, 06:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
[COLOR="Red"]No, the entire wire rarely gets replaced. The entire wire only gets replaced if the insulation has been burned off. If the wiring looks normal, or is only discoloured, only the connector gets replaced.[/COLOR]
The OP, JohnGrayo, says he is in Delaware, in the US, subject to US laws related to Mandatory Recalls per requirements of the NHTSA (National Highway Transportation Safety Administration). His vehicle is subject to that recall. The BMW Dealer and its Tech performing the recall are obligated to:
1) Repair the vehicle PURSUANT to the agreed Procedure as described in RCRIT-17V676-0612 which I attached to my prior post.
2) Certify to the NHTSA that the Procedure has been performed exactly in the manner provided in the RCRIT. "It Looked OK to ME" is NOT good enough.

You indicate you are located in Montreal (Canada I presume). I don't know if you have performed any NHTSA recalls, or read any RCRITS with Recall performance Procedures that MUST be followed exactly and certified as such, but you could at least read the RCRIT I provided before you say: [COLOR="Red"]"NO, BS, BS, BS."[/COLOR]

The FIRST provision in the Procedure, found at the top of page 6, states:
MEASURE:
The blower regulator and its corresponding wire harness must be replaced. Don't disconnect the regulator from the wire harness connector, but cut the wire harness. The disassembled parts have to be returned to WPRC.
The 5 page procedure has photos & step-by-step instructions that make it quite clear EXACTLY what is to be done in performance of the Recall Procedure. It even specifies the tools to be used, and references preliminary procedures, by BMW reference number, such as disconnecting the battery removal of glovebox, and then goes on to specify the BMW procedure for removing the Junction Box (so Tech can access a connector on the firewall side to INSTALL NEW HARNESS.

John, NOTE that the RCRIT, at TOP of pdf page 7, which is page 2 of the Repair Procedure, indicates to CUT the White/Brown wire, which is the PWM Blower Speed signal from the IHKA Module, and it is then SPLICED into the NEW Wiring Harness per the steps shown on pages 3 & 4 of the Procedure, beside the photos of the crimping tool.

If testing of the White/Brown wire per my prior post indicates NO change in PWM signal when blower speed is changed on Control Panel, it is possible that crimp is faulty (IF Recall has been performed). If recall has NOT been performed, I would have that done as soon as possible and perhaps the issue will be rectified by rewiring, OR the Dealer will at least provide a quick diagnosis.

Please let us know what you find,
George
I am in Ottawa. I am a BMW tech. I have done more than a 100 of these recalls. The recall states if it looks fine, it is fine. If the wiring is not discoloured, you only replace the connector and a short section of wiring. If the wiring is discoloured, you replace that same section of wiring and the controller. If the insulation is burnt off and the copper wiring is exposed, you do the long harness repair, which runs all the way to the JBE, and the controller. Less than 5% get the long harness.

Yes, it is possible the signal wire was not crimped properly. Could try a patch that goes around that crimp.
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      02-27-2020, 10:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGrayo View Post
I took the battery out and charged it overnight because I saw this was a possibility, but no luck. I also just went out to double check and the defrost on the HVAC did not cause the blower motor to function. So it leads me to believe there is either a problem with the signal wire or HVAC unit itself...
Thanks for checking. Thought it was worth at least ruling out! Sounds like the other guys will have a better idea of how to tackle your issue.


Good luck!
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      02-27-2020, 10:59 AM   #9
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Has it made any noises prior to failing buddy?
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      02-27-2020, 12:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
... The recall states if it looks fine, it is fine...
This appears to be where you and I are on "different pages."

I attached the NHTSA RCRIT that specifies the PROCEDURE to be followed by Dealers in US. That was the initial procedure adopted, in November 2017, and AFAIK it is STILL the procedure followed by BMW Dealers in the US. If you have any information to the contrary, please advise.

You have NOT identified, linked, or quoted WHATEVER "recall" it is that you suggest you are following. There is NO reason AFAIK that you should be following the RCRIT I provided, as I doubt NHTSA has much authority in Canada.

It would be helpful if you described WHAT governmental authority in Canada that you are complying with (if any Government Agency Recall is in effect) when you "have done more than 100 of these recalls", and if you could provide a link to, or quote from, any applicable "Procedure" mandated by either the Canadian Government or BMW applicable to the "recalls" you have performed.

It is my understanding that in the US, PRIOR to the NHTSA Recall Campaign 17V676, Dealers in US did what you are describing, and there were NO replacement parts that were DIFFERENT from Factory installation. So I can see NO reason that a Dealer in Canada should be required by BMW to comply with US NHTSA Recall Campaign 17V676.

If you have ANY reason to believe that the Procedure in the RCRIT I linked, and the quote from that Procedure I provided is NOT actually REQUIRED to be followed by US Dealers, please explain my error. "That's NOT the way I do it in Ottawa" is NOT helpful to US owners.

Thanks,
George
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      02-28-2020, 12:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostgoose View Post
Has it made any noises prior to failing buddy?
no, i just purchased the car from auction. I am going to find the PMW connection at the connector behind glove box to check for continuity between there and the connector on the FSR to make sure the wire is not the issue. I do not have a scope to view PWM signal, but with multi meter it shows zero volts, which I understand is not a good assumption of there being no PWM signal.
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      02-28-2020, 01:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I am in Ottawa. I am a BMW tech. I have done more than a 100 of these recalls. The recall states if it looks fine, it is fine. If the wiring is not discoloured, you only replace the connector and a short section of wiring. If the wiring is discoloured, you replace that same section of wiring and the controller. If the insulation is burnt off and the copper wiring is exposed, you do the long harness repair, which runs all the way to the JBE, and the controller. Less than 5% get the long harness.

Yes, it is possible the signal wire was not crimped properly. Could try a patch that goes around that crimp.
I will check continuity of the PWM wire between connector on FSR and connector on junction box behind glovebox
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      05-28-2020, 08:18 PM   #13
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gbalthrop Im having the same issue and when i tested the red wire at pin 2, it shows 12V for a split second and drops to zero. I tested the same wire above the splice (had the recall performed last year) on the vehicle side and got the same results. Should i remove the jbe and test it there as well? any advice would be helpful. Al controls work, just not the blower. Thanks
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      05-28-2020, 10:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP_e92 View Post
... Im having the same issue and when i tested the red wire at pin 2, it shows 12V for a split second and drops to zero. I tested the same wire above the splice (had the recall performed last year) on the vehicle side and got the same results. Should i remove the jbe and test it there as well? any advice would be helpful. All controls work, just not the blower. Thanks
"I'm having the same issue" is probably the most-used phrase on the Forums, and it is SELDOM accurate.

I'm old and slow and try to be thorough in analysis, so please bear with me.

1) Please describe what is NOT working as it should, when it works, and when it doesn't;
2) Please confirm we are talking about a 2009 328i E92;
3) Was your car sold in Canada, and was the recall performed in Canada?
4) AFAIK, Owners and Dealers in Canada are NOT under the jurisdiction of the US Government, to include NHTSA which negotiates procedure to be followed in a recall. That's a GOOD THING for you given the current administration.
5) Do you know if the NHTSA RCRIT, attached to Post #3 above, applies to what was done on YOUR vehicle last year? From what "MightyMouseTech" stated in Posts #4 & #7, it does NOT, at least as far as procedure he followed in Ottawa.
6) I have NO information on what regulatory provisions are followed in Canada, so I cannot tell you if/why the RCRIT I attached to Post #3 is followed (at least some of the time ;-) by Canadian Dealers. The person who began this thread lived in Delaware, USA, and I was providing him with the procedure US Dealers are supposed to follow.

Confused yet? OK, let's get on the same page about WHERE you are testing for voltage and under WHAT conditions. If YOUR vehicle in question is in fact a 2009 328i E92, then the following is the correct wiring diagram for the Blower (M30 in schematic), at least BEFORE the recall was performed:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...bution/uZS1ONq

The Blower Output Stage (N2) HAD a Connector, X18722, at which the Power Supply to the blower Connector was via Pin #2, and that wire WAS Red/Violet. If the harness was replaced, it could be ANY color NOW. However there are ONLY three wires in that connector, and the two LARGE wires are B+ (always hot) 12V+ Power Supply (should be Red or Red/Violet), and the other large wire should be Brown, Chassis Ground. The smaller wire, originally White/Brown, is the Speed Signal from the IHKA Module (A11a), via the JBE Module (A410a).

The Power Supply to the Blower is from fuse F88, on 2008 & later models, and is UN-switched Battery Power (always hot). So using your Multimeter, test for 12V+ at ONE of the sockets of F88 with the fuse removed, AND test F88 for "Continuity" (~0 Ohms) between the spades. That is how you test a fuse "electrically", as opposed to just looking at the "Z-shaped" element in the fuse body.

Next, Test for 12V+ at Pin #2 (Red/Violet or Red wire?) of Connector X18722, IN REFERENCE TO CHASSIS GROUND. THEN, Test Pin #1, Brown wire, of Connector X18722, for continuity to chassis ground. That wire is replaced in the US recall, as well as the Red/Violet wire, so test BOTH SEPARATELY. Many people will just test voltage between Red (Power Supply) and Brown (Ground) wires, but if you get no voltage, or intermittent voltage as in your case, you don't know WHICH is faulty, B+ or Ground.

Assuming you did it right BEFORE you posted, if you have intermittent B+ or 12V+ at the Red/Violet (Red?) wire, then unfortunately you have to remove the JB (Junction Box or Fuse Panel) REMOVE THE BATTERY (-) TERMINAL FIRST and check connector X11011 on the Forward-side or firewall side of the JB. Here is an "Installation Location" of Connector X11011:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e92-328i-cou/S8Slj4g

I would suggest to read the RCRIT to see EXACTLY what wire they were SUPPOSED to remove from WHICH Connector, and electrically trace the Red/Violet (Red?) wire to make sure it is in the correct Connector. Also make sure your Radiator "E-Fan" is working/powered, as there have been several reported cases of Techs getting disoriented in the tight quarters, and removing the E-Fan Power Supply wire instead of the OLD blower harness wire. The connector could be loose, a pin/socket could be damaged, or the wire may NOT be correctly attached to X11011.

Please let us know what you find, or if you have any questions,
George
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      05-30-2020, 02:55 PM   #15
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Blower Motor Issues in E90
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I feel you, I've had my fair share of blower motor and cooling/heating issues. From the crazy squeal which worked itself away, to my AC just crapping itself, to literally ZERO heat coming from my drivers side but blowing boiling hot air on passenger vents. I had the wiring harness recall done for the blower motor but that's it. Haven't messed with it. Plan on just deleting the AC compressor entirely eventually with the shorter belt mod and physically removing the compressor. As to the heating issue, considering it requires moving the entire dash out of the car to tackle, I probably won't be delving into that any time soon.
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      05-30-2020, 06:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritzer View Post
Blower Motor Issues in E90
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I feel you, I've had my fair share of blower motor and cooling/heating issues... literally ZERO heat coming from my drivers side but blowing boiling hot air on passenger vents... As to the heating issue, considering it requires moving the entire dash out of the car to tackle, I probably won't be delving into that any time soon.
If you are getting heat from ALL Passenger side vents, with BOTH thermostats set to 84F/ Hottest, but cold/ cool air from ALL vents on Driver side (except perhaps when DEFROST button is pushed), then almost certainly your LEFT/ Driver side "Mixed Air Flap Motor" or its wiring has issues. In case you had never followed HOW the IHKA system works, ALL air goes through the Evaporator/ Cooling coil (to "de-humidify" to keep windows from "fogging", but air ONLY gets directed through the heater IF the "Mixed Air Flap" on that side directs it there -- otherwise NO heat.

If that is what you are experiencing, just confirm in reply and we can offer more specific testing suggestions. Fault Codes from IHKA module would probably indicate WHICH Flap Motor (there are 8) is NOT working, or if you had INPA, you could change Driver Side (L) T-Stat setting and watch to see what the Left Mixed Air Flap Does on your INPA screen.

Here is the TIS procedure for replacing the Left Mixed Air Flap Motor, and it's a LOT easier than you suggest. Per procedure, only thing you have to remove to access the flap motor is the Trim Panel over the driver footwell:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ntrols/OeugIsV

Since 7 of the 8 flap motors are the same (ONLY the Re-circulation Flap Motor is different), you can get one anywhere; new from ECS for $30 or less. You DO have to "Re-address" the Flap Motors to "let the new motor know what position it is playing" after installation. You MAY just have a damaged wire or loose connector if someone has recently worked in the area where that Flap Motor is located.

Hope head gets better w/use.

George
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      05-30-2020, 11:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
If you are getting heat from ALL Passenger side vents, with BOTH thermostats set to 84F/ Hottest, but cold/ cool air from ALL vents on Driver side
That is precisely my symptoms, you reckon it's easy to repair? I thought it may have been a blockage in the heater core, I didn't really look into it however frustrating the last winter was when I came out to my car and it was 40 degrees fahrenheit.
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      05-31-2020, 06:21 PM   #18
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That is precisely my symptoms, you reckon it's easy to repair? I thought it may have been a blockage in the heater core, I didn't really look into it however frustrating the last winter was when I came out to my car and it was 40 degrees fahrenheit.
You won't get sympathy from MOST people in the US, complaining about 40F in the dead of winter in San Diego -- just put on a 2nd shirt.

There are NOT two heater cores, so if Right side has heat & Left does NOT, the Left Blend/ Mixed Air Flap is NOT moving for some reason. That reason COULD be (1) the Flap is physically stuck (tapping on the housing often frees a stuck flap), (2) the Flap Motor has an electrical/ mechanical fault, (3) there is a wiring or Connector Fault at that Flap Motor, or in the LIN_BUS wiring between that motor and the LAST Motor in the Series chain BEFORE the Left Blend Flap which WORKS, etc.

Do you recall if anyone worked in the Dash area, or particularly in the Left Footwell, BEFORE you had NO Left-side Heat?

Testing would be easy with INPA, but CAN be done other ways. Begin by removing the Trim Pad over the Left Footwell. Visualize the Left Blend Flap Motor and connector using a bright light. Here is the TIS "Installation Location for that Motor (M153) above the upper heater core pipe:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e90-328i-lim/R1vuHsC

Start by disconnecting the Electrical Connector from that motor, and gently tapping the area surrounding the Motor & Flap Housing. Inspect the Motor & Connector pins & sockets for any obvious corrosion or damage, clean with Electronic Contact Cleaner, reinstall & test at L T-Stat Max Heat.

If still no joy, test the function of the Footwell Vent Flap (bottom button on Left of Climate Control Panel). If that Vent opens & closes as it should, then the LIN_BUS connection is NOT the problem as that is to the right of, and downstream of, the Left Blend Flap in the "Series" LIN_BUS string. Here is the TIS Heating & Air Conditioning Functions wiring diagram which shows the LIN_BUS wiring for control of the 8 flap motors, see the RIGHT side of the large schematic:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ontrol/uZS1ONq

Try those things and let us know what you find. Motors or other components CAN fail, but the majority of Blend Flap issues reported on the Forums in the 3 years I have been following them have been Connector & Wiring issues and NOT the Flap or Motor.

George
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      05-31-2020, 09:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbalthrop View Post
Do you recall if anyone worked in the Dash area, or particularly in the Left Footwell, BEFORE you had NO Left-side Heat?
Possibly when the recall was done for the blower motor wiring harness, but I think that they have to go in the right side for that.

Thanks for all the info George, I will definitely take a look at everything you posted and report back.
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      06-27-2020, 01:48 PM   #20
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I have my car scheduled for the recall. I had removed the blower motor unit to check for debris and replaced the cabin filter. I put it back together and now the heater a/c (nothing to do with fan motor) works.

I only learned of the harness recall while trying to figure out why my fan blower motor stopped. I think some wire got pulled loose when I removed the blower motor. I replaced the fuse which seemed fine-absolutely no response...not even a click.

Any simple things I missed? Theres only one clip to release to drop this down.
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      06-27-2020, 01:51 PM   #21
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PS. everything worked just fine (heater and A/C) before my ill-advised cleaning...altho I did learn of the recall...
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