[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by undecided

I mean, really? What's to prevent a rogue "dealer" employee from slipping the flash into the wild? What's to prevent a tech savvy "pirate" from ripping the flash right off a flashed car?

The money they will make by providing the self flashing will make up for any losses (which are not even real, usually people who pirate would not have bought the product in the 1st place) from any pirated flashes. They may even be able to do something similar to the BT tool where the flash tool and flash image is tied to 1 VIN which sound very fair to me. I just want to be able to do it. Please GIAC, find a way to give this to your customers.

Thanks

Simply bring your car into an authorized retailer if the need to change the flash is present rather than waiting for a workstation to be shipped, likely requiring a large deposit to be held.

The GIAC network is very large where this simply isn't needed.

[Glowin]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

I'm getting very anxious hearing about all this.. What do you guys do about your warranty? Go to the GIAC dealer and have it unflashed before heading to the BMW dealer?

That issue keeps getting avoided I find as currently the switcher isn't available, which is the best way to go completely undetected. While dealers may not be able to tell that you have a tune, all they need to do is drive the car to confirm it has an extra 80 or so horsepower. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out you're tuned at that point.

So until the switcher comes out, the reality is you'd be taking your chances that when you go in for service, they won't take your car for a spin, which isn't a chance I'd personally like to take.

If a GIAC customer has any serious warranty work to be done, I'd bet they'd first get flashed back to stock before taking their car in. Which means one more trip to your GIAC dealer, pay them to flash back to stock, then after the dealer visit, another GIAC dealer trip to get reflashed. You have to pay both times to your GIAC dealer.

[NRG]

Originally Posted by Glowin

That issue keeps getting avoided I find as currently the switcher isn't available, which is the best way to go completely undetected. While dealers may not be able to tell that you have a tune, all they need to do is drive the car to confirm it has an extra 80 or so horsepower. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out you're tuned at that point.

So until the switcher comes out, the reality is you'd be taking your chances that when you go in for service, they won't take your car for a spin, which isn't a chance I'd personally like to take.

If a GIAC customer has any serious warranty work to be done, I'd bet they'd first get flashed back to stock before taking their car in. Which means one more trip to your GIAC dealer, pay them to flash back to stock, then after the dealer visit, another GIAC dealer trip to get reflashed. You have to pay both times to your GIAC dealer.

While I agree with you on the warranty work. It's entirely up to the dealer to charge you or not. Mine doesn't charge.

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by Glowin

That issue keeps getting avoided I find as currently the switcher isn't available, which is the best way to go completely undetected.

Thats what we think but even with the switcher, there will be changes to the ECU code to allow the map switcher to work (like a bootloader?). Even with a map switcher, and the default map (stock) loaded, a dealer can still detect changes to the ECU code if they wanted to

[enrita]

its much easier for the dealer to spot scratches on the ECU connectors than go through the DME code to find out its not the original one. The dealers have no capability to look through the code . Only BMW in germany.

[NRG]

^+1.

If they really wanted to find out, it's enough to take a closer peak at my cowl covers. I mean - all the nuts and bolts are so loose that i can unscrew them by hand. This is the side effect of getting into the ECU everyday, sometimes twice a day.

[stressdoc]

We are beating a dead horse again. Bottom line is that if red flags are raised ISTA access can provide data for analysis that will detect code changes. Will this happen to many folks with flashes? If past action by BMW is any indication, the answer is no. Unless you have an engine-related warranty issue then no one is likely to go poking around looking at what you have done to your property.

This issue boils down to how much risk you are comfortable with, and vendor convenience. If you live in CA or a major urban area then you likely have a GIAC dealer close by, so if something goes wrong with your engine you could potentially have it towed to GIAC and flashed back. Those of us that live in the flyover chasm may be hundreds of miles from a dealer; we would have to remove DME and send it somewhere to get flashed back. Even if you are flashed back to an OEM v.xx.x it is still possible for BMW to detect that something has been done -- but I don't think they could or would do anything about it unless you have really pissed some people off.

If you want zero risk, get the BMW tune.

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

We are beating a dead horse again. Bottom line is that if red flags are raised ISTA access can provide data for analysis that will detect code changes. Will this happen to many folks with flashes? If past action by BMW is any indication, the answer is no. Unless you have an engine-related warranty issue then no one is likely to go poking around looking at what you have done to your property.

This issue boils down to how much risk you are comfortable with, and vendor convenience. If you live in CA or a major urban area then you likely have a GIAC dealer close by, so if something goes wrong with your engine you could potentially have it towed to GIAC and flashed back. Those of us that live in the flyover chasm may be hundreds of miles from a dealer; we would have to remove DME and send it somewhere to get flashed back. Even if you are flashed back to an OEM v.xx.x it is still possible for BMW to detect that something has been done -- but I don't think they could or would do anything about it unless you have really pissed some people off.

If you want zero risk, get the BMW tune.

+1
well said ...

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by NRG

^+1.

If they really wanted to find out, it's enough to take a closer peak at my cowl covers. I mean - all the nuts and bolts are so loose that i can unscrew them by hand. This is the side effect of getting into the ECU everyday, sometimes twice a day.

[undecided]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Simply bring your car into an authorized retailer if the need to change the flash is present rather than waiting for a workstation to be shipped, likely requiring a large deposit to be held.

The GIAC network is very large where this simply isn't needed.

And if the HPFP is dead and the car is not driveable it's an impossibility without shipping the ECU. I don't know if I am representing a large number of potential buyers but without the option of end-user self flashing GIAC drops out of the running for me. Another possible solution would be to have 2 ECUs. One flashed with GIAC and one stock and just switch the two. Has GIAC researched this as a solution in-lieu of home flashing?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by undecided

And if the HPFP is dead and the car is not driveable it's an impossibility without shipping the ECU. I don't know if I am representing a large number of potential buyers but without the option of end-user self flashing GIAC drops out of the running for me. Another possible solution would be to have 2 ECUs. One flashed with GIAC and one stock and just switch the two. Has GIAC researched this as a solution in-lieu of home flashing?

Once the DME is shipped to us, we will program (or flash to stock in this case) and return the computer to you via Next Day air - it's a very quick process.

GIAC has no plans of home-based laptop flashing at this time.