[Bmwuk]

Whilst we are talking water meth, do people have any photos of where best to locate the spray nozzle? Is it best to replace plastic intercooler with custom metal? Is braided hose better than the pvc/rubber ones supplied with the online kits? Anybody using a devilsown kit with progressive controller setup?

Thanks

[Bmwuk]

Originally Posted by Bmwuk

Whilst we are talking water meth, do people have any photos of where best to locate the spray nozzle? Is it best to replace plastic intercooler with custom metal? Is braided hose better than the pvc/rubber ones supplied with the online kits? Anybody using a devilsown kit with progressive controller setup?

Thanks

*intercooler outlet pipe that is....

[OmahaDZL]

Originally Posted by Bmwuk

Whilst we are talking water meth, do people have any photos of where best to locate the spray nozzle? Is it best to replace plastic intercooler with custom metal? Is braided hose better than the pvc/rubber ones supplied with the online kits? Anybody using a devilsown kit with progressive controller setup?

Thanks

In the previous posts its discussed that the meth nozzle should be before the Charge Air temp sensor....which is half way in the hard section of the charge pipe....so it would need to go between that sensor and the intercooler.

I am currently exploring the idea of moving that temp sensor into a race pipe and then being able to put the nozzle where the temp sensor was...right now its just an idea though.... You might want to talk to someone like Bimmertune on your side of the pond.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

... I'd like to see this test redone at high BMEP's, as the cylinder pressure behavior gets much more concerning as shown in the previous graphs I posted. Using pilot injection to start the fire, or having in-cylinder temps high enough under extreme boost to self ignite methanol, is a potentially very bad thing.

This paper is closer to examing the area of concern:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...94177713000046

Even though injection timing is retarded by the Engine Control Unit as more ethanol is added, combustion timing effectively advances due to the effect of two stage injection. Where the ethanol/air mixture strength is above the lower flammability limit at compression temperatures, the mixture is ignited by the pre-injection and begins to burn rapidly by flame propagation and/or autoignitive propagation before the main liquid fuel injection begins. This occurs for ethanol energy substitution rates greater than 30%. Two distinct peaks in heat release rate appear at the higher ethanol rates. Severe knock becomes apparent for 34% ethanol. Two stage injection may be disadvantageous in these circumstances.

[tryingtobebest]

Ok, everyone is keep saying that they utilize RPM as part of Meth injection, but there is not a singe line of HOW and from WHERE people getting that signal from!! I think its a great topic or at least a question to add to the first post!

Also, whats everybody running for percentage of METH in their meth injection kits!?

[335dsleeper]

You can get RPM from the OBDII plug or the DDE itself. There are wiring diagrams online. I think I have one, I'll look when I get back on my computer and I'll post if I have it.

Most everyone is running 50/50 and a few guys have increased the meth ratio. I think there's a few running close to 100% now too.

I think the torquebyte controller is idea for our setup since the MAP has a short range and the MAF is frequency based.

I'm trying to figure out a cheap way to control WI in my X5. I think I'm just going to use a Hobbs switch and a small nozzle. I'm just trying to keep it clean and not looking to make any more power.

Originally Posted by tryingtobebest

Ok, everyone is keep saying that they utilize RPM as part of Meth injection, but there is not a singe line of HOW and from WHERE people getting that signal from!! I think its a great topic or at least a question to add to the first post!

Also, whats everybody running for percentage of METH in their meth injection kits!?

[335dsleeper]

DDE wiring diagram posted.

Originally Posted by tryingtobebest

Ok, everyone is keep saying that they utilize RPM as part of Meth injection, but there is not a singe line of HOW and from WHERE people getting that signal from!! I think its a great topic or at least a question to add to the first post!

Also, whats everybody running for percentage of METH in their meth injection kits!?

[335dsleeper]

This thread covers the OBDII port RPM signal

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...&highlight=diy

[335dlci]

Torqbyte for the win

[Aerickson95]

I hope to be able to provide a little more info on my setup soon however I am still trying to tune my meth controller. As for where to tap in to the DDE for signal check out the attached documents. What is acceptable/ expected meth consumption for say 100miles, does 1.2gal seem quite high?

[OmahaDZL]

Originally Posted by Aerickson95

I hope to be able to provide a little more info on my setup soon however I am still trying to tune my meth controller. As for where to tap in to the DDE for signal check out the attached documents. What is acceptable/ expected meth consumption for say 100miles, does 1.2gal seem quite high?

Even as a novice I can tell you that depends on a couple factors....what nozzles are you using? what kinda map are you running? A graduated one? Or an all on/all off?

[Aerickson95]

The jet is a 0.8mm (400cc/min) with a progressive map based on DI injection events (takes into account for boost, rail pressure and injector duty cycle). I still have a lot of fine tuning to do however that just seemed excessive to me.

[Hoooper]

Yeah that's pretty high, especially for a fairly small nozzle. This assumes you were driving normally across fairly flat terrain. If you did 100 miles up a grade, would say it's not that high

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by Aerickson95

I hope to be able to provide a little more info on my setup soon however I am still trying to tune my meth controller. As for where to tap in to the DDE for signal check out the attached documents. What is acceptable/ expected meth consumption for say 100miles, does 1.2gal seem quite high?

100 miles at ~60 mph (just an assumption on speed) -> 100 minutes of driving. 1.2 gal -> 4542 cc. So you were averaging ~ 45 cc/min of continuous injection. That seems like a lot compared to most reports of how people have setup their systems.

If your goal is to clean the intake, then this level of utilization may speed that process up. But you'll be filling your system a lot...

Do you have a gauge or way to know how much is being injected and when? Is it possible you have a leak somewhere in your connections?

[DWR]

At that level, you are going to effect fuel adaption values. The methanol is becoming a fuel source/substitute for diesel. Your WOT power level will adapt down.

[335dsleeper]

Thanks for posting this.

Originally Posted by DWR

At that level, you are going to effect fuel adaption values. The methanol is becoming a fuel source/substitute for diesel. Your WOT power level will adapt down.

[Hoooper]

Originally Posted by DWR

At that level, you are going to effect fuel adaption values. The methanol is becoming a fuel source/substitute for diesel. Your WOT power level will adapt down.

low rpm/torque fueling adaptations affect the higher end values in our ddes?

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

low rpm/torque fueling adaptations affect the higher end values in our ddes?

Yep.

[Aerickson95]

Originally Posted by DWR

At that level, you are going to effect fuel adaption values. The methanol is becoming a fuel source/substitute for diesel. Your WOT power level will adapt down.

This is good to know! Thanks for the info, would this lead to a noticeable drop in WOT power when the system was turned off? Ive made a lot of adjustments and am much more comfortable with my consumption now. I had my gain and trigger settings backwards....

[OmahaDZL]

Originally Posted by Aerickson95

Ive made a lot of adjustments and am much more comfortable with my consumption now. I had my gain and trigger settings backwards....

Now that would make some sense. TDIwyse On the facebook page Rob had a question and he apparently has sworn off commenting on e90 because he got flamed....

So the convo was about where to put the nozzle in relation to the charge air temp sensor. It started because Randall from BPC posted some of their custom work and they put the nozzle at the top of the pipe instead of before the temp sensor...I asked if this was intentional because of what you told me here..... if you arent getting the cooled temp info, the car cant fully benefit.

Robs response was: Is it better to place the nozzle for accurate temps or lower temps? I wasnt quite sure what to make of that considering if you put the nozzle after the sensor, its going to be neither accurate OR lower...I told him that I didnt think the temp would raise a whole lot from the lower injector spot to the intake if it was moved lower...

He followed up with this:I'd think a foot or so could make a difference when utilizing atomized liquid in a non-pressurized tube.

Then Randall addressed my question: The positioning gets rather tight the lower in the pipe you go. You can place it before or after the sensor, the motor is also smart enough to know that is it is in a knock situation from detonation that it can pull power without having to rely on what the IAT is saying is going on. Really from what i understand and have been told is there is a list of checks and balances going on in these cars long enough to make most of our heads spin. The top location workouts without a hitch and can be adjusted to changed without having to sacrifice an arm or worry about pulling the whole pipe.

This seems like the engine will pull back, in a knock situation sure....but in normal situation you are not/cannot get optimal power without accurate numbers going in... Please verify...

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by OmahaDZL

Now that would make some sense. TDIwyse On the facebook page Rob had a question and he apparently has sworn off commenting on e90 because he got flamed....

What was "Rob's" username here? I'm not sure who he is or why he got "flamed".

Originally Posted by OmahaDZL

So the convo was about where to put the nozzle in relation to the charge air temp sensor. It started because Randall from BPC posted some of their custom work and they put the nozzle at the top of the pipe instead of before the temp sensor...I asked if this was intentional because of what you told me here..... if you arent getting the cooled temp info, the car cant fully benefit.

I don't believe the normal DDE configuration utilizes IAT's for anything that would help improve power. I want to inject pre IAT sensor so I can more closely log what the IAT's are doing so I can better model the system behavior.

Originally Posted by OmahaDZL

Robs response was: Is it better to place the nozzle for accurate temps or lower temps? I wasnt quite sure what to make of that considering if you put the nozzle after the sensor, its going to be neither accurate OR lower...I told him that I didnt think the temp would raise a whole lot from the lower injector spot to the intake if it was moved lower...

He followed up with this:I'd think a foot or so could make a difference when utilizing atomized liquid in a non-pressurized tube.

It takes time and distance for the water/methanol to evaporate. The water portion takes longer. The cooling and increased air density occurs as the state transition occurs (liquid to gas). There isn't a lot of extra distance/time between the places being discussed, but every little bit helps.

A reference showing how a small distance impacts behavior: https://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/102694

"The atomizing nozzle was mounted either downstream or upstream of the aftercooler, and it was found that the upstream configuration resulted in more consistent results- probably due to improved evaporation and mixing of the fumigant with the intake air. "

Originally Posted by OmahaDZL

Then Randall addressed my question: The positioning gets rather tight the lower in the pipe you go. You can place it before or after the sensor, the motor is also smart enough to know that is it is in a knock situation from detonation that it can pull power without having to rely on what the IAT is saying is going on. Really from what i understand and have been told is there is a list of checks and balances going on in these cars long enough to make most of our heads spin. The top location workouts without a hitch and can be adjusted to changed without having to sacrifice an arm or worry about pulling the whole pipe.

This seems like the engine will pull back, in a knock situation sure....but in normal situation you are not/cannot get optimal power without accurate numbers going in... Please verify...

Agree putting the nozzle lower down in the pipe is more difficult.

I would love to learn how the DDE senses knock at full load and high rpm's (not low load and low/mid rpm's). It seems unlikely to me that it has this ability, but I've been wrong before.

[OmahaDZL]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

What was "Rob's" username here? I'm not sure who he is or why he got "flamed".



I don't believe the normal DDE configuration utilizes IAT's for anything that would help improve power. I want to inject pre IAT sensor so I can more closely log what the IAT's are doing so I can better model the system behavior.



It takes time and distance for the water/methanol to evaporate. The water portion takes longer. The cooling and increased air density occurs as the state transition occurs (liquid to gas). There isn't a lot of extra distance/time between the places being discussed, but every little bit helps.

A reference showing how a small distance impacts behavior: https://conservancy.umn.edu/handle/11299/102694

"The atomizing nozzle was mounted either downstream or upstream of the aftercooler, and it was found that the upstream configuration resulted in more consistent results- probably due to improved evaporation and mixing of the fumigant with the intake air. "




Agree putting the nozzle lower down in the pipe is more difficult.

I would love to learn how the DDE senses knock at full load and high rpm's (not low load and low/mid rpm's). It seems unlikely to me that it has this ability, but I've been wrong before.

Rob is like ABSCSU or something like that....he got flamed (not banned) for...umm..I cant remember but I had something to do with BPC vs JR... HP....dangerous tunes...timeslips...I cant remember.

So, on injector placement are you saying that its better that the injector is further away? ie..the further the better?..... Rob seemed to be saying the closer the better (but maybe I misunderstood him)

As for placement of nozzle in relation to the temp sensor.... I was under impression that the benefit was direct. But you seem to be saying that its more for your monitoring than the DDEs.....so you can better monitor all of your info to get every last ounce of power out....

So to sum up...If I understand you correctly....putting it before the temp sensor helps in evaporation, but wont really help vis a vis the temp sensor.... So why not put it in the hard pipe on the upstream side of the IC? also would keep oil down in the IC