[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by Duck360198

Sure, you can go and convert to 6MT. But don't expect the same return as a factory optioned 6MT. Personally, I'd never touch a car that has had a transmission swap. You have no idea who bought that $40K EAG car and what they're going to do with it. Can it not be someone who loves the E9x chassis and is willing to pay a premium to have the best condition one that has hit the marketplace in quite some time?

We're not comparing what's the better investment here...E39 M5 or E91. That is ridiculous. It's the simple fact the E91 is appreciating in value at a certain rate and it is a desirable car for many. I don't understand why it has to be absurd that a clean example can't fetch that kind of cash.

I understand fetching a premium, but $40k? That’s the mania he’s talking about. For $10-15k less I doubt anyone would be arguing the point.

Just curious, why wouldn’t you consider a swap? Is it the resale value, or the worry that it wasn’t done right? Which kind of begs the question: are people buying these primarily for investment purposes? That’s just something that’s never made sense to me. Not for an E91 at least, which doesn’t offer the requisite driving experience or “magic” to warrant these premiums. The appeal of these to me is the combination of utility and driving enjoyment.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by Duck360198

Exactly! Certain BMW enthusiasts are going to keep this car on their radar.

Everybody knows there's nothing special about the engine...it's a good engine though. I disagree on the 6MT not being special enough. You know 6MT's are a dying breed. From what I understand, there were a total of 1990 RWD E91 wagons offered in the U.S. 152 of those are M-Sport. 49 of those are 6MT. How many of those 49 are still on the road? Sorry, but those numbers alone on an overall fantastic chassis make for a desirable car even though it's not an M powerhouse.

Agreed 100%. The E91 is a solid all-rounder and had low production numbers.

Even the best optioned E39 540i M Sport Tourings (which didn't even come in a stick!) still hold value even with their numerous faults: timing chain guides, SLS, and electrical gremlins like the instrument cluster and radio displays. They had similarly low production numbers.

Originally Posted by CSBM5

That is exactly my point...and why it's time to liquidate into the mania. It won't last no matter what the numbers. We've already seen bubble blowoffs in numerous German cars in this current manic environment like the early 911/911S craze of 2012-2014, early 930s 2013-2015, etc, and the spillover emotions driving the pricing of all of these explosive pricing moves don't exist at low risk times since all markets are pricing the future with essentially zero risk right now. Hence the reason crazy stuff happens that is always capable of being justified during such periods.

It's just an observation for a non-car-centric point of view as a fund manager. If I'm the only one that holds such an opinion, that only reinforces the observation of the bubblishness of this market at this point in time. If it was tradeable, it's not time to short it yet, but definitely a time to liquidate longs into the bids.

I don't think most owners view their nicely optioned E91 as an investment, at least I don't. I bought mine because I like it. I put around 5k miles on my 'nice weather daily' annually so it'll be nice if it holds value but I won't alter my driving usage to try to maximize my return in the event I decide to sell it.

I believe the inflated numbers on ideally optioned E91's will remain high due to two factors: 1. There is no modern replacement from BMW. 2. Very limited production numbers.

Originally Posted by 4151zero

I hate to say it, but this thread makes me want to sell mine!

It will sell well but likely won't fetch crazy numbers with AWD.

Originally Posted by sturgeongeneral

I understand fetching a premium, but $40k? That’s the mania he’s talking about. For $10-15k less I doubt anyone would be arguing the point.

Just curious, why wouldn’t you consider a swap? Is it the resale value? The worry that it wasn’t done right? (It isn’t rocket science.) Which kind of begs the question: are people buying these primarily for investment purposes? That’s just something that’s never made sense to me. Not for an E91 at least, which doesn’t offer the requisite driving experience or “magic” to warrant these premiums. The appeal of these to me is the combination of utility (first and foremost) and driving enjoyment.

Bingo. I don't think anyone is buying these to sit on as an investment. I can see originality affecting value 10-20 years down the line if they are even still desirable.

Another option is to buy one from Europe and import it. I believe as long as you import one with the same engine available here you're in the clear. These cars are a dime a dozen in Germany.

[sempaipaul]

Originally Posted by sempaipaul

Hi folks!

Selling my e91. 6 speed! Check it out:

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...619421164.html

Thanks,
Paul

Hi guys. Still for sale. Need to sell before end of month as to not have to renew the registration on the car. Up for sale on eBay now as well. 6 speed manual - AWD with pano, iDrive, and brown interior.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-BMW-3-...LH_TitleDesc=0

Best,
Paul

[Duck360198]

Originally Posted by sturgeongeneral

I understand fetching a premium, but $40k? That’s the mania he’s talking about. For $10-15k less I doubt anyone would be arguing the point.

Just curious, why wouldn’t you consider a swap? Is it the resale value? The worry that it wasn’t done right? (It isn’t rocket science.) Which kind of begs the question: are people buying these primarily for investment purposes? That’s just something that’s never made sense to me. Not for an E91 at least, which doesn’t offer the requisite driving experience or “magic” to warrant these premiums. The appeal of these to me is the combination of utility (first and foremost) and driving enjoyment.

Let's go find another 35K mile M Sport 6MT RWD car right now and let's compare prices, then I'll answer that. You gotta understand it's EAG selling it. A private seller could ask that all day everyday and they won't get it. Your $10K-$15K less is probably accurate....as a private party car. With EAG's overhead, the work they do on every single car, and their reputation to back it...they can ask anything they want...and get it.

I won't consider a swap because of originality. You can have receipts, you can photos, you can have videos, etc. etc., but you've lost all originality. That's a simple no for me...unless my income was disposable (it is not) and I could have a fun car. I'm very much a production numbers and/or originality guy. I absolutely don't believe people are buying these as investments. It's not that kind of car. BUT, as I've said before, still a car that can slowly appreciate. And with the help of EAG, it's going to continue to appreciate. People are obviously taking note of the market. EAG has caught on to the market. THey've had some phenomenal E91 M Sports in their inventory. Coulda woulda shoulda...they were low priced examples (an alpine white over red/brown comes to mind) a few years back and people still talked shit about their prices then. But that's the case with every car they sell.

[Duck360198]

Originally Posted by ubersteuer

Agreed 100%. The E91 is a solid all-rounder and had low production numbers.

DEAD ON with everything you said above, ubersteuer! Couldn't agree more.

[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by Duck360198

Let's go find another 35K mile M Sport 6MT RWD car right now and let's compare prices, then I'll answer that. You gotta understand it's EAG selling it. A private seller could ask that all day everyday and they won't get it. Your $10K-$15K less is probably accurate....as a private party car. With EAG's overhead, the work they do on every single car, and their reputation to back it...they can ask anything they want...and get it.

I won't consider a swap because of originality. You can have receipts, you can photos, you can have videos, etc. etc., but you've lost all originality. That's a simple no for me...unless my income was disposable (it is not) and I could have a fun car. I'm very much a production numbers and/or originality guy. I absolutely don't believe people are buying these as investments. It's not that kind of car. BUT, as I've said before, still a car that can slowly appreciate. And with the help of EAG, it's going to continue to appreciate. People are obviously taking note of the market. EAG has caught on to the market. THey've had some phenomenal E91 M Sports in their inventory. Coulda woulda shoulda...they were low priced examples (an alpine white over red/brown comes to mind) a few years back and people still talked shit about their prices then. But that's the case with every car they sell.

I know about EAG and their premiums. I just question the value they add to justify their often (not always) outrageous prices. They may be (as you pointed out) propping up prices, which I see as a double-edged sword.

Originality? Not sure what that's supposed to mean. Sounds like a circuitous way of saying "I care about resale value" (which is fine). All I'm saying is given the premiums people are charging some may want to consider swaps as a viable alternative for those of us who just want a MT wagon.

[Duck360198]

Originally Posted by sturgeongeneral

I know about EAG and their premiums. I just question the value they add to justify their often (not always) outrageous prices. They may be (as you pointed out) propping up prices, which I see as a double-edged sword.

Originality? Not sure what that's supposed to mean. Sounds like a circuitous way of saying "I care about resale value" (which is fine). All I'm saying is given the premiums people are charging some may want to consider swaps as a viable alternative for those of us who just want a MT wagon.

Buy a car from them and judge for yourself if it's justifiable. Don't base it off the exaggerated word-of-mouth he said-she said bs from others who have never bought from them.

What's not to understand about originality? I want to run a VIN and see that the car is a 6MT from the factory. Do I care about resale value? Absolutely I do...especially when it's a vehicle that is appreciating. The E46 M3 market is a perfect example. SMG's are dirt cheap. I'm not shitting on the idea of a swap, I'm just saying it's not for me. I completely get why people do it. Resale value isn't a priority to them. They just want a 6MT for a fraction of the price of a factory 6MT. Makes perfect sense.

[flipwils11]

Originally Posted by nfaust

2012 M Sport Auto AWD, Black on Oyster for $19k at Carmax
https://www.carmax.com/car/15944995

You guys looking for wagons are nuts if you don’t pick this up! Reasonable mileage, M-Sport, final year 2012 build, California car (pay attention buyers in rust prone climates!), reasonable price, and no idrive dashboard bump. Yes it’s missing the crucial third pedal but as others have said, that can be fixed with some money and a plan. Hell, check out Limited.slip on instagram and the e46 forums. He is doing a nice tidy business converting smg to manuals and building e46 m3 tourings out of M3 donors. He also works on E9X cars.

If you bought this Carmax E91, drive it as is with the autotragic while you collect parts and research the manual swap.

[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by Duck360198

Buy a car from them and judge for yourself if it's justifiable. Don't base it off the exaggerated word-of-mouth he said-she said bs from others who have never bought from them.

What's not to understand about originality? I want to run a VIN and see that the car is a 6MT from the factory. Do I care about resale value? Absolutely I do...especially when it's a vehicle that is appreciating. The E46 M3 market is a perfect example. SMG's are dirt cheap. I'm not shitting on the idea of a swap, I'm just saying it's not for me. I completely get why people do it. Resale value isn't a priority to them. They just want a 6MT for a fraction of the price of a factory 6MT. Makes perfect sense.

Fair enough, but I don’t need to buy from them before forming an opinion. I’m sure the experience is smooth and they’re knowledgeable etc., but I simply won’t do business with them out of principle.

Originally Posted by flipwils11

You guys looking for wagons are nuts if you don’t pick this up! Reasonable mileage, M-Sport, final year 2012 build, California car (pay attention buyers in rust prone climates!), reasonable price, and no idrive dashboard bump. Yes it’s missing the crucial third pedal but as others have said, that can be fixed with some money and a plan. Hell, check out Limited.slip on instagram and the e46 forums. He is doing a nice tidy business converting smg to manuals and building e46 m3 tourings out of M3 donors. He also works on E9X cars.

If you bought this Carmax E91, drive it as is with the autotragic while you collect parts and research the manual swap.

+1

Note that a swap on an E46 M3 is relatively trivial compared to doing one on the E90. But again, it’s not impossible, and it’s been done.

[NCgamecock]

I looked at this ad long & hard...it's a pretty good price IMO

328ix, 6MT, 75k miles, for $15k OBO
https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/...645839812.html

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by NCgamecock

I looked at this ad long & hard...it's a pretty good price IMO

328ix, 6MT, 75k miles, for $15k OBO
https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/...645839812.html

Solid find imho!



With all the S54 E46 Touring talk, I'll just leave this here...
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=599953

[.RJ]

I dont get the fuss over originality.

E90's are built like legos, literally. Pieces pop off, new pieces pop in. Sport package, trim, m-sport... the parts are all easily available and easy to change the car from one trim level to another. If OE parts are used you'd never know sitting in it whether it was assembled that way at the factory or not.

[AMB]

Originally Posted by .RJ

I dont get the fuss over originality.

E90's are built like legos, literally. Pieces pop off, new pieces pop in. Sport package, trim, m-sport... the parts are all easily available and easy to change the car from one trim level to another. If OE parts are used you'd never know sitting in it whether it was assembled that way at the factory or not.

E90s are apparently coding nightmares, so transmission swaps aren't easy/cheap in the long run. X drive is a no go also and can't be undone. I will never buy a grey or beige interior as that is a PITA swap, and to hell with the horrible and continually dated iDrive.

So an RWD 6SPD with all the right options is deserving of the unicorn status. At least to me and those like us.

Speaking of which, I am desperately in search of one and this fodder is getting in the way. We are all mostly here for the same reason, let's keep it "classified".

[sturgeongeneral]

Originally Posted by AMB

E90s are apparently coding nightmares, so transmission swaps aren't easy/cheap in the long run. X drive is a no go also and can't be undone. I will never buy a grey or beige interior as that is a PITA swap, and to hell with the horrible and continually dated iDrive.

So an RWD 6SPD with all the right options is deserving of the unicorn status. At least to me and those like us. Speaking of which, I am desperately in search of one and this fodder is getting in the way. We are all mostly here for the same reason, let's keep it "classified".

No one is suggesting going from xDrive to RWD or doing a full interior swap, and the coding isn’t difficult. And no one is trying to strip unicorns of their unicorn status. Once again, all people like me are saying is if you can find a RWD E91 auto for cheap you should consider it.

I get this is a subforum for classifieds but this discussion is healthy and hardly gets in the way of people posting what’s available.

[CSBM5]

There is very little coding necessary for a 6MT swap, so apparently no nightmare. Where people have had troubles is not having the wiring properly done.

[E91WAG3N]

Originally Posted by AMB

Speaking of which, I am desperately in search of one and this fodder is getting in the way. We are all mostly here for the same reason, let's keep it "classified".

The discussion of the market is half the fun imho. Any unicorn found at a bargain price is already sold 9 times out of 10 by the time it's posted here. The only exception is a BaT listing or the like.

There are only around 50 M Sport RWD 6MT's out there and several owners, including myself, post actively in this thread. Good luck with your search!

[Duck360198]

Originally Posted by .RJ

I dont get the fuss over originality.

E90's are built like legos, literally. Pieces pop off, new pieces pop in. Sport package, trim, m-sport... the parts are all easily available and easy to change the car from one trim level to another. If OE parts are used you'd never know sitting in it whether it was assembled that way at the factory or not.

Oh I agree on the swapping of parts. That stuff doesn't bother me because of the availability of parts to easily take back to stock. A transmission swap is a bit more involved and probably something one would do once and more than likely not go back to stock. While I'm a stickler for originality, admittedly it would be less of a concern for me on an e91 than it would be for a clean e46 m3, an e36 ltw, an e30 m3, etc.

[Tedmondsjr]

Originally Posted by NCgamecock

I looked at this ad long & hard...it's a pretty good price IMO

328ix, 6MT, 75k miles, for $15k OBO
https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/...645839812.html

Owner had previously listed it for $16,500 about 45-60 days ago.
They responded quickly to my email about the car, and sent the CarFax in their reply. It’s still out out of my budget at this price, but the seller seemed motivated, especially given the $1,500 price drop.

[makke]

This car has been listed in DC for months. I believe the initial ask was over 20K. I guess absence of the Sport Package is making the car less desirable...

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...645836344.html

[NCgamecock]

Originally Posted by Tedmondsjr

Owner had previously listed it for $16,500 about 45-60 days ago.
They responded quickly to my email about the car, and sent the CarFax in their reply. It’s still out out of my budget at this price, but the seller seemed motivated, especially given the $1,500 price drop.

Was the CarFax clean?
Sounds like somebody needs to bring him 13k cash & get the deal done!

[BIGGNS]

Originally Posted by makke

This car has been listed in DC for months. I believe the initial ask was over 20K. I guess absence of the Sport Package is making the car less desirable...

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...645836344.html

This is a member's car, belongs to WHITE-E92. See page 40 of this thread

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=871

[4151zero]

Originally Posted by BIGGNS

This is a member's car, belongs to WHITE-E92. See page 40 of this thread

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...&postcount=871

That's a great car, why isn't it selling... ?