[E90Menace]

Getting the code: 2F71 Electronics-box fan activation

Would like to know if anyone’s come across this error! And I would like to know if I Just need to order a new e-box fan and get it installed to solve this? Thanks

[Hayk90]

Originally Posted by E90Menace

Getting the code: 2F71 Electronics-box fan activation

Would like to know if anyone’s come across this error! And I would like to know if I Just need to order a new e-box fan and get it installed to solve this? Thanks

I just fixed this code by replacing the fan. I did some troubleshooting before I went after it.

1. Try to manually activate the fan with INPA or ISTA and listen for it.
2. Check the fuse (F16).

Getting to it is a real pain, I recommend removing the passenger seat for comfort.

These pages really helped me out.

http://www.foxwellsupport.com/solved-bmw-e90-328i-2f71-e-box-fan-replacement/

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1509678

How to remove the glovebox properly.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/techarticles/BMW-3-Series-E90/BODY-Glove_Box_Replacing/BODY-Glove_Box_Replacing.htm

[E90Menace]

Originally Posted by Hayk90

I just fixed this code by replacing the fan. I did some troubleshooting before I went after it.

1. Try to manually activate the fan with INPA or ISTA and listen for it.
2. Check the fuse (F16).

Getting to it is a real pain, I recommend removing the passenger seat for comfort.

These pages really helped me out.

http://www.foxwellsupport.com/solved...n-replacement/

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1509678

How to remove the glovebox properly.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec..._Replacing.htm

Thanks, this job I’d rather take to a mechanic or the stealership if it isn’t ridiculously priced there. I plan to buy the part myself and then take it in to get installed, so I just need to order the fan that’s it? Not extra hardware?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by E90Menace

Thanks, this job I’d rather take to a mechanic or the stealership if it isn’t ridiculously priced there. I plan to buy the part myself and then take it in to get installed, so I just need to order the fan that’s it? Not extra hardware?

If you have NOT had the Blower Motor Harness Recall performed yet, perhaps you can work a "Deal" with the "Dealer" when that gets done, as much of the same STUFF needs to be removed to access the E-box Fan. You have to remove the Glovebox, JBE & JB to get to the E-box Fan on the Passenger Compartment side of the Firewall. ALL of those steps have to be performed for the Recall. Swapping the Fan unit should NOT take 15 minutes with the other stuff out of the way.

George

[E90Menace]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

If you have NOT had the Blower Motor Harness Recall performed yet, perhaps you can work a "Deal" with the "Dealer" when that gets done, as much of the same STUFF needs to be removed to access the E-box Fan. You have to remove the Glovebox, JBE & JB to get to the E-box Fan on the Passenger Compartment side of the Firewall. ALL of those steps have to be performed for the Recall. Swapping the Fan unit should NOT take 15 minutes with the other stuff out of the way.

George

Had the re call done over a year ago. How many hours is this job around?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by E90Menace

Had the re call done over a year ago. How many hours is this job around?

I would be interested in knowing the mileage (km) at which you had the Recall performed, AND the mileage at which the E-Box Fan Fault Code was saved. That last mileage is in the 2F71 Fault Memory Freeze Frame Data or Fault Details. If you have INPA you can read the mileage in Memory History (HistorySpeicher), EVEN IF you deleted the Fault Memory (Fehlerspeicher).

As for time it takes, like MOST jobs, it depends upon whether you have done it before, your patience level, tools available, etc. It SHOULD take a "First-timer" several hours just to research the steps from ISTA Repair Operations, and to plan the work. Best to take your time, Investigate & Learn about the various components (JBE & Connectors, how JBE fits into JB Fuse Panel, Connectors on Forward-Firewall side of JB, and how fan connects to E-box). Taking photos while there is a plus.

If a "First-timer" tries to see how fast he can do the job, he'll probably get a second chance to put things back together correctly.

I've never taken anything apart in that area except removal of panel over passenger footwell to inspect Blower Wiring Connector, and removing panel on Forward side of Glovebox to photograph JB Fuse Panel and remove one fuse for testing. I HAVE read the Blower Motor Harness Recall RCRIT Procedure and the ISTA Procedures related to JB removal.

My SWAG is that most anyone who has taken his time to remove/ disassemble multiple components to access another component can do the job. The key is understanding the steps and having patience. I'll attach the Blower Motor Harness Recall RCRIT pdf, and you can see what I mean. If you have a 1/4" Drive Socket Set and small Torx bits such as T-20 (which you need for MANY small jobs on E9x), you CAN do it. Don't let the RCRIT Procedure about removal of wire from connector scare you. You do NOT have to do that -- just get the Junction Box Fuse Panel out of the way to access the E-box Fan Motor.

Since the Fan PART Price alone is ~ $160 US, you should check F16 Fuse & Test Fan operation FIRST BEFORE ordering part. I attach F16 circuit which shows E-box Fan & Radiator Shutter Drive Unit on SAME fuse. If you have that Radiator Shutter Drive on your vehicle, does IT WORK? If you have a Windows Laptop, time to get INPA & ISTA.

The Software is FREE and even if you have to pay ~ $300 for a Laptop, you're still ahead. K+DCAN cable to connect Laptop to OBD II Socket is $45. THEN, YOU can DIY (Diagnose It Yourself) and see ALL wiring diagrams, Repair Operations, etc. NO wading through shoddy Videos and wondering if THAT GUY actually knows what he's talking about, or WHAT he's leaving out.

George

[gbalthrop]

Since F16 circuit in prior post was hardly legible, Attached HERE in Full Size:
NOTE: the diagram of fan attached to E-box on footwell side of firewall; M6506 Fan;
X6506 Fan Connector; BOTH on Footwell side.
George

[Hayk90]

It took me about 2-4 hours if I remember correctly. I did it with the passenger seat in place and leaning over into the car from the ground (very uncomfortable!), I don’t know why I didn’t think to remove the seat first.

If you had the blower motor recall performed, hopefully the dealer tech did not reinstall the 4th Junction Box screw (top left corner) that’s impossible to remove without a flexible driver. I did my fan right after the recall and my 4th screw was luckily already removed.

You need plastic trim tools, a T-20 socket with extensions and a Phillips head. A zip tie cutter and spare zip ties is also very useful for loosening the wire harness that’s in the way.

If you don’t have a lot of experience with electrical connectors on cars, I would not recommend this job. You have to be very careful removing and reinstalling the JBE(?) module connectors, the Junction Box connector, and the miscellaneous lights and switches connected to the kick panel and glove box.


Pro Tip: you can find the fan on eBay, if you have the part number, for a fraction of the new cost. I got mine from a reputable salvage dealer and paid $30 including shipping.

[fixingstill]

Is the relay K6300 driving only the 10A circuit which powers the e-box fan and the radiator shutter drive unit (which I don't think I have)?
Could the K6300 go bad? Where is it?
I removed the e-box fan and it is tested running. Fuse 16 is also good.
Does the DME measure current thru the fan to determine if it is good? Maybe measurement is too sensitive (for some old fan)?
I have autel maxisys which can power up the fan but when I do, no sound no spinning from the fan.

[fixingstill]

Obviously I have the same 2F71 code (and the 2E7C BSD + 2E8B IBS codes too) and glad I found this thread.

Ok. Everything apart and have the e-box fan (2) on the floormat to observe. When I activate it, I hear a quiet high pitch noise from the fan (either) and it spins only when kick started by finger. Youtube clip here:

I did measure the voltage at the connector. It is same as the battery voltage 11.97V.
It does look like DME is commanding it to turn on but does not give enough current for it to spin up. I took the fans to my bench and both powered up nice and strong with a 12V AC adapter.

Somewhere along the wiring between DME and the connector has bad connection / contact, passing voltage but not current? Relay? Grounding? Moisture intrusion? Or it looks like the DME is not giving enough juice while is measuring it? A bad DME (which might be the cause of the IBS code as I have changed out the negative battery cable and that did not fix the problem)?

To continue troubleshooting tomorrow (by flipping over the carpet to check the grounding ... Hope to see some pointers here. Thanks.

[bmwbob89]

Can you test it with the car running. Alt output is like 14 volts. It may work then. Just a thought.

[fixingstill]

I actually did and result was the same (on two fans). I did the video without car running because I wanted to capture the quiet high pitch noise from the fan.

Correct if I am wrong, DME gives a ground signal to the relay which activate the e-box fan by giving it a positive (passing thru the F16 10A fuse)?
The ground side of the fan should simply goes straight to chassis ground? If so, I can bridge the ground wire to chassis directly to give it a new path. If that fixes the problem, we have a bad ground side.

How does the DME watch the current of the fan when the circuit is after the relay?

I can solder a wire right on the 10A fuse and run the fan from there. If it runs strong, something wrong between the JB and the connector.

Otherwise, the K6300 relay might not have good contact internally when activated and not pass enough current? Is K6300 inside the JB? Replaceable or I better replace the whole JB?

Last resort is to replace the DME which is another can of worm.

BTW, no water intrusion there. I just flipped over the carpet. Grounding point looks good too.

[e90yyc]

Agree with Hayk90 – this job is a pain in the dick.

Mine hadn’t failed but it was noisy when it ran. I picked up a spare one and it was noisy too, so I said screw it and just removed it altogether. It’s been a couple years now and no issues.

I live in a colder climate, so this may be ill advised if you’re in, say, Florida.

If anyone cares to tell me whether you can hear the actual fan itself (not the airflow—I expect to hear that) I’d be curious. New replacement fans are so pricey, but IIRC a forum member found a source for the exact same fan from the OE manufacturer for much less $.

[fixingstill]

Ha, in my case, my fan is super quiet when activated and does not want to spin unless I give it a middle finger push. 2nd fan is the same. The connector has 12V but not enough current to spin it up.
I definitely need 1) to get to the wiring diagram, 2) to understand how the DME determines if the fan is not working, 3) to determine if the K6300 is replaceable.

Easiest way for me now is to run to junkyard and (practice) get a fuse box replacement.

What make my fan not willing to spin up? Anyone?

[e90yyc]

No doubt... maybe one day I’ll replace it!

Have you tried connecting the fan to 12V on the bench?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by fixingstill

... Correct if I am wrong, DME gives a ground signal to the relay which activate the e-box fan by giving it a positive (passing thru the F16 10A fuse)? The ground side of the fan should simply goes straight to chassis ground?...[Please see BELOW &

See the E-Fan circuit attached to next post for the 2010 335i with N54. Same circuit as in my 3/2007 N52. That "Relay" you are referencing: K6300 is the "DME MAIN RELAY" which powers the primary functions of the DME, the Injector Function, and Coil/ Spark Function. So if K6300 were NOT being activated, your engine would NOT run, and the E-fan would be the LEAST of your worries. The "87" that appears in the diagram for F16 indicates the fuse is powered via "Terminal 87" which is switched by the DME Main Relay, as opposed to "30" which is unswitched "Terminal 30" Battery Power.

B+ power to the E-Fan is present ANY time Ignition is on, and for several minutes after engine Shutdown. The DME switches GROUND to activate the E-box Fan when temperature of the DME exceeds a certain value (~ 40C?). So if you are testing a fan motor by attaching it to the connector, as opposed to bench testing it, there will be NO ground, although you SHOULD have 12V+ with Ignition ON, at the White/Red Wire of X6506/2 (Pin#2 of Connector X6506 at the E-fan).

George

[gbalthrop]

As described in prior post, attached is E-box Fan ISTA wiring diagram
George

[E90Menace]

Stealership says 1 hour labour to install ($164.99 CAD) so will let them install it! I’ll provide the fan.

[fixingstill]

Ok, so, R6300 relay drives a lot of stuff and the ebox fan is the least important things. DME gives ground path to the fan and monitors the current. I will give the fan a new ground path to see how it spins up. Maybe it is the connection at the DME.

Ok. I will continue this weekend and report back with photos and video(s) if needed.
I will install ISTA+ so that I have full access to the wiring diagrams.

Thanks.

[fixingstill]

George, have you seen a bad DME not giving good ground signal to power up the e-box fan (and monitoring the current)?

I have read your posting in another thread:
===============

Here is the TIS E-box Fan wiring diagram, Installation Location, and F16 fuse wiring diagram for your 2009 328i. There is Power Supply to the Fan whenever Terminal 87 (DME Main Relay) is Active (which it is with Ignition ON), and the DME switches the fan on/off via the Brown/Orange (Ground) wire during engine operation, based primarily on DME Temp Input to the Control circuit:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ox-fan/v9sBAMG
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e90-328i-lim/RnrQYJn
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...6-fuse/hw5enhp

BMW Fault Code Lookup & Bentley Fault Code DEFINITIONS for 2F71 for your MSV80 DME:
2F71 | DME: Electronics-box fan, activation | msv80
P3227 | 27F1 | E-box Control Fan Low Input

NOTE: the Bentley Definition "Low Input" suggests EITHER Low Voltage Supply to Fan, or missing Ground completing the circuit to activate the Fan when E-box Temp or DME Temp exceed threshold Temp, but the wording MAY be "weaseled" enough to include input to DME such as Temp, preventing activation of Fan??

Here is the BMW Fault Code Lookup "Fault Information" sheet. NOTE the Service Notes which suggest tests to perform:
http://www.bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagVie...cAMwAyADAANAA=

I would test as follows:

1) Check F16 and for 12V+ (B+) at F16 Fuse Socket on JB (Junction Box) Fuse Panel, Ignition ON.

2) If power supplied by F16, then need to access Connector X6506 which is attached to E-box Fan Motor (M6506). Here is TIS procedure for doing that, and apparently it is in passenger footwell, obstructed by Fuse Panel:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...it-box/Oantz3T

3) Using Patch Cords to apply battery voltage & ground, Test Fan Motor Operation by applying 12V+ to Pin #2 of Fan, to which Red/White wire in connector was attached, and Ground to Pin #1. External battery or 12V power supply is best since vehicle battery should remain DISCONNECTED as long as JB is loose. If Fan motor operates, continue with steps 4 & 5 below.

4) Test for 12V+ @ Pin #2 of X6506, Red/White wire, Terminal 87 Active, Ignition ON. If impractical to reconnect battery while you have access to Fan Connector X6506, then simply test continuity of Red/White wire between Pin #2 of Connector and F16 socket (Battery disconnected).

5) Test for continuity of Brown/Orange wire from Pin #1 of Connector X6506 and Pin #26 of Connector X60001 at the DME, per this TIS Installation Location & Connector View for X60001:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...lim/1VnZAHHjcD
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/CTEvDNej

===============

However, I found above AFTER I worked on troubleshooting today.
I could conclude that the 12V power is at the connector and when I cut off the ground wire of the e-box fan and grounded it to the chassis, the fan ran at full speed. That told me DME is not giving it the proper ground signal to the fan (and thus monitoring the current). I see at the wiring diagram that the ground wire goes straight to the DME without any connectors, I see no break no nick no crusty green no water intrusion so I concluded that the DME is bad (it also has problem with the BDS IBS). I did not do the continuity check of the ground wire that I should have. I will tomorrow.
(I did not know I could register with newtiso.info and still get to their pages.)

[gbalthrop]

NOT sure I was clear in describing how the DME switches the E-box fan on ONLY when DME Internal Temp reaches a certain Value. The B+ wire to the Fan is ALWAYS powered when Ignition ON. HOWEVER, the DME ONLY supplies a ground signal to run the fan when DME Internal Temp (steuergerät innentemperatur) reaches ~40+C.

The DME Module Internal Temperature can be measured with LIVE DATA readout using INPA > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F6 Measure Values Group 6. The
E-box Fan can be Activated or switched on using INPA > F6 Activations > F1 > Shft+F3 "Control E-box Fan". I can hear mine run when I Activate it with Engine OFF, Ignition ON, Audio off.
George

[fixingstill]

I got the idea.
So, I cut the ground wire of the fan, and connected the plug, and bridged the ground wire of the fan to chassis while the ign is on. That turned on the fan in full power. That means positive 12V is not a problem. See video above.
Previously (before cutting the fan ground wire), I used my autel scanner to command the fan to turn on and the blade moved a bit and stop until I finger pushed it and then it runs very slowly (see video above).
Last night, with the fan disconnected, I checked the continuity of the ground wire from the fan connector to the DME connector (x600001 pin 26) and ohm is infinity and the wire is not grounded to chassis.

All that tells DME is not giving a proper ground signal to power up the fan. DME is the problem I believe but I certainly don't hope so.

George, just wondered if you have seen DME failing to power up the ebox fan by not being able to give a proper ground?

The BSD IBS is also giving me problem. That is after putting in a new alternator regulator and changing the IBS cable twice. Maybe changing the DME would fix it all.