[howard941]

I have about 48K miles on my 09 335d. In the last 3K miles or so it's been throwing

P02D1 Cylinder 3 Fuel Injector Offset Learning At Max Limit
P02D6 Cylinder 6 Fuel Injector Offset Learning At Min Limit

The car's untuned, nothing's been deleted (yet).

This thread https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=955104 suggests it's possibly a DDE issue, while many other threads suggest CBU given the cylinders involved, mileage, and lack of cleaning.

I've had CBU quotes ranging from $480 to $1700. Does anyone agree it's possibly CBU and wouldn't hurt to do the cleanout? Is it worth installing and getting acquainted with ISTA to run its CBU test plan before dropping the $ (I don't think my Schweber tool can do it)?

[335dlci]

It can happen at low miles. Test plan through ista works
And ista is very cheap now. I dont know people still dont get it. If you have cbu quotes of less than 800$ than it's probably not the best job. IMO the best way to look for cbu is a camera

[howard941]

My indy shop wanted $1800 for CBU blasting on top of the $100 charge to confirm the DCTs I told them about were real.

I was kind of stunned to get the <$500 quote after the $1800 figure. I specifically asked the service advisor if it included the long procedure from service bulletin SI B 11 03 14 and she said it did.... But now my brother in law says not to do it, he thinks the walnut shells will get blown into the cylinders and screw up the valves or something else and I should keep pouring Techron Diesel into the tank and waiting for it to make the buildup disappear.

Do you think any of the cheap Harbor Freight cameras are up to the inspection task? Scoping and ISTA I think I can handle and it would help me familiarize myself with the engine. I bought the Bentley guide but the one I got is gasoline only and doesn't have anything on the M57

[montr]

If the procedure is done correctly, there will be no walnut shells in the cylinder. It is very important to follow the procedure and program the DDE after the procedure is completed. And, who knows, you may need to have the DDE software updated.
I am surprised at a $480 quote. Maybe they do not know what is involved in doing the CBU cleaning on a diesel.

Note: There are no additive to the fuel or oil than can clean the CBU

[335dlci]

Originally Posted by montr

If the procedure is done correctly, there will be no walnut shells in the cylinder. It is very important to follow the procedure and program the DDE after the procedure is completed. And, who knows, you may need to have the DDE software updated.
I am surprised at a $480 quote. Maybe they do not know what is involved in doing the CBU cleaning on a diesel.

Note: There are no additive to the fuel or oil than can clean the CBU

Agreed other than having methanol installed.

[howard941]

Originally Posted by montr

If the procedure is done correctly, there will be no walnut shells in the cylinder. It is very important to follow the procedure and program the DDE after the procedure is completed. And, who knows, you may need to have the DDE software updated.
I am surprised at a $480 quote. Maybe they do not know what is involved in doing the CBU cleaning on a diesel.

I was surprised also, so much so I emailed again with a copy of the service bulletin and to try to ensure that it was for the whole shebang in the service bulletin. I suppose she could be seeing it as $4800 which would be more consistent with dealership fees. At any rate the quote's from a service advisor at the busiest BMW dealership around Tampa Bay. Would $480 even cover their costs? If it would I could see them doing it for goodwill since I had an initial bad experience over there.

[howard941]

Originally Posted by 335dlci

Agreed other than having methanol installed.

I like how this approach elegantly deals with the CBU and gives something in return. Is methanol injection destructive to the other stuff in line like the SCR NOx $en$ors etc? Is an EGR plate + deletion mandatory?

[Nadir Point]

W/M injection and diesel ICEs are a match made in automotive heaven. Done right, it keeps EGT in check allowing you to safely add stupid amounts of fuel, keeps the entire flow path including the intake, chambers, valves and exhaust clean and even adds a little power with a 50/50 concentration.

Considering it being a relatively low-tech DIY project, I'm hard-pressed to think of a better bang-for-the-buck upgrade to ANY diesel engine.

[howard941]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

Considering it being a relatively low-tech DIY project, I'm hard-pressed to think of a better bang-for-the-buck upgrade to ANY diesel engine.

Wow. Cool. Quickly browsing around it looks like I can pick up the components for roughly $800 or so, does that sound right? The SCR junk and EGR components remain in place, yes? I'm feeling like I owe it to the thing and myself to make up for 8 years of driving the thing like it was a fragile baby that'd break when punched down.

[howard941]

Originally Posted by 335dlci

...Test plan through ista works... IMO the best way to look for cbu is a camera

I wish I'd remembered to bring the battery tender with me to do things without toasting my charge state. The only thing keeping me from running ISTA is the lack of the tender and a paranoid urge to install ISTA through a VM on my laptop.

Re the likely CBU, realizing I won't get the complete picture do you think I'd get a reasonable preview of how bad the intakes look by removing the EGR and inspecting it and its port? My BIL suggests pulling the EGR but leaving it connected and starting up the engine to see what blows out. Does this make any sense?

[335dlci]

Originally Posted by howard941

I wish I'd remembered to bring the battery tender with me to do things without toasting my charge state. The only thing keeping me from running ISTA is the lack of the tender and a paranoid urge to install ISTA through a VM on my laptop.

Re the likely CBU, realizing I won't get the complete picture do you think I'd get a reasonable preview of how bad the intakes look by removing the EGR and inspecting it and its port? My BIL suggests pulling the EGR but leaving it connected and starting up the engine to see what blows out. Does this make any sense?

Sounds like your BIL has never dealt with a m57? No offense.

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by howard941

Wow. Cool. Quickly browsing around it looks like I can pick up the components for roughly $800...

I stopped looking at kits 20 years ago when they cost $400 and thought they were too expensive then. you can get better quality parts for half the cost sourcing it yourself from Parker and McMaster-Carr. High quality medical-grade stainless gear pumps can be found on eBay for $50.

[335dlci]

Look into torqbyte. I can get you 15%off.

[BB_cuda]

Originally Posted by Nadir Point

I stopped looking at kits 20 years ago when they cost $400 and thought they were too expensive then. you can get better quality parts for half the cost sourcing it yourself from Parker and McMaster-Carr. High quality medical-grade stainless gear pumps can be found on eBay for $50.

The controller is the key though. I would talk to 335dlci on this stuff. You need to be damn sure that the stuff is off when engine turned off and not spraying. $400 vs $800 is nothing if you hydrolock your engine. I have read of controllers still being powered when car off. Be careful. I hadn't done this mod yet but will eventually.

[howard941]

Originally Posted by 335dlci

Sounds like your BIL has never dealt with a m57? No offense.

He's my BIL so I can't take offense and anyway he doesn't seem to have any m57 experience: According to him it's not possible to have CBU with only 48K miles.

So I take it the suggestion (remove EGR but leave it wired up and start engine) will be unhelpful at best, is that a fair statement?

[howard941]

Originally Posted by 335dlci

Look into torqbyte

Can I avoid the CBU cleanout with enough time running water/meth injection? (As it stands now I'm not seeing any performance issues, only the two injector codes.)

Obviously I'm confused and unsure how to proceed, if a cleanout is needed why the stealership's quote was so low. BIL (yeah him again) says they'll pull the manifold off and either drop walnut shells into a cylinder or break a fuel rail line or something else'll happen and I'll be looking at at least $4k before it's all said and done.

I suppose I need you or someone else with comparable expertise to visit with me in Clearwater/St Pete and knock some sense in to me and my 335d

[PerfectAce]

Originally Posted by howard941

He's my BIL so I can't take offense and anyway he doesn't seem to have any m57 experience: According to him it's not possible to have CBU with only 48K miles.

So I take it the suggestion (remove EGR but leave it wired up and start engine) will be unhelpful at best, is that a fair statement?

If he thinks it's not possible to get carbon build-up with only 48k miles, I might go so far as to say: forget the M57, his experience with direct injection motors in general is lacking.

Anyway, I'm completely baffled with this "remove the EGR but leave it plugged in, start the motor and see what blows out" business. I mean, what are you (or is he) expecting to see or not see? I mean, if you're gonna take the EGR valve off anyway, why not just look inside and see how much crap you got caked on it? But even that's not gonna tell you the real story -- you need to remove the intake manifold and look at the inside of the runners all the way down to the valves.

Read this thread: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1058497 It'll give you a good idea visually of what/where the problem lies.

[335dlci]

Originally Posted by howard941

Can I avoid the CBU cleanout with enough time running water/meth injection? (As it stands now I'm not seeing any performance issues, only the two injector codes.)

Obviously I'm confused and unsure how to proceed, if a cleanout is needed why the stealership's quote was so low. BIL (yeah him again) says they'll pull the manifold off and either drop walnut shells into a cylinder or break a fuel rail line or something else'll happen and I'll be looking at at least $4k before it's all said and done.

I suppose I need you or someone else with comparable expertise to visit with me in Clearwater/St Pete and knock some sense in to me and my 335d

No you kind of have to have it already installed t prevent cbu since yours is probably pretty clogged now. 4k for cbu cleaning?? What?

[howard941]

Originally Posted by 335dlci

4k for cbu cleaning?? What?

It's not a real number but it is a close quote of my BIL. It's gotta be FUD. He predicts that if I get the work done whoever does it is going to break everything within a foot of the manifold and I'll need to replace all of the injectors provided the mechanic's even able to reassemble the intake side properly.

[335dlci]

Originally Posted by howard941

It's not a real number but it is a close quote of my BIL. It's gotta be FUD. He predicts that if I get the work done whoever does it is going to break everything within a foot of the manifold and I'll need to replace all of the injectors provided the mechanic's even able to reassemble the intake side properly.

As a professional BMW master tech. I suggest you find someone new
I would only charge you a 1/4 of that for cbu if it were me.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by howard941

It's not a real number but it is a close quote of my BIL. It's gotta be FUD. He predicts that if I get the work done whoever does it is going to break everything within a foot of the manifold and I'll need to replace all of the injectors provided the mechanic's even able to reassemble the intake side properly.

Sorry, but your BIL sounds pretty ridiculous. I'd disregard everything he says on this issue.

No fuel or additive will touch the CBU, literally, so that won't help. Methanol/water injection will keep things clean once you've got the build up removed, but won't really remove the build up...certainly not quickly. Good quality diesel will help prevent it from happening again, as well as helping your DPF stay good, so that is worthwhile I'd say.

You need to take the inlet manifold off and have a look. Even at the low mileage there could be significant CBU, particularly since you say you drive it gently.

If you're concerned that somebody won't do the job properly, either causing damage or not following the full procedure, then find somebody you trust. Remember that engine work like this, and even more involved stuff, is done regularly. It'll be worth some extra $ for peace of mind though, since the job certainly can be done badly or wrongly. I'd ask for before and after pictures, regardless of who is doing it.

Also remember that the adaptations need to be reset when you have it done.

I hope that helps.

[RED-d]

Anyone quoting CBU cleaning that's close to $500 is thinking a gasser. As others have said; remove your intake and take a look yourself. It's not that hard and you'll learn something about your motor. Mostly that it's not that hard to work on.