[MNick]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

The two logs I posted aren't intended to be directly compared to each other.

Also Wagner doesn't have a 8" FMIC.

Gotcha, I thought you were saying they should be done on the same car for comparison...

Wagners EVO 2 Comp is actually 8" in height...


And here it is compared to the 6" AA FMIC that it replaced

[Tiago@VRSF]

The 6" designation of the AA and every other intercooler is the depth, not height.

[MNick]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

The 6" designation of the AA and every other intercooler is the depth, not height.

Your objection on semantics is noted.

However, Active Autowerkes does not use "6 inches" to designate their "sport" version or 3.5" for their "race" version. I suppose this might give the impression that their race version is smaller or less effective... Perhaps you should exclude AA in your statement above from use of depth as a designation. However, maybe "every other" company does do this??? I have found two companies in your favor, ETS and VSRF.

We know that designations are helpful to distinguish things that are similar but uniquely different. VSRF for example, names their FMICs based on there unique characteristics: 7" - 20x5.75x7.125" / 5" - 20x8x5". I agree it would not make sense to label the more expensive and presumably better product by its height or 5.75" FMIC, then label their second tier product as 8" as this may confuse the consumer... Using the depth as a designation certainly helps distinguish the VSRF line of FMICs 7.5(?), 7.0 and 5.75.

Since Wagner makes two EVO II models: Competition and Performance, I decided to label them based on what was different or height, 8" and 6", respectively...

I'm currently unaware of any industry standard as far as nomenclature goes for FMICs other then the length, height and of course the depth. Perhaps you can explain more on this topic...

[Captain Canuck]

Ambient temp 27*C, logs were done after a good while of spirited driving.

1) ATM
2) AFE Momentum GT
3) 1.75" silicone inlets
4) silicone outlets
5) 94 octane with a few litres E85

Here's a third gear pull:

http://datazap.me/u/revolver/2016-07...12-15-23-30-31

And 2-4. Had some timing corrections so maybe need a little more e85:

http://datazap.me/u/revolver/2016-07...15-23-27-30-31

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MNick

Your objection on semantics is noted.

However, Active Autowerkes does not use "6 inches" to designate their "sport" version or 3.5" for their "race" version. I suppose this might give the impression that their race version is smaller or less effective... Perhaps you should exclude AA in your statement above from use of depth as a designation. However, maybe "every other" company does do this??? I have found two companies in your favor, ETS and VSRF.

We know that designations are helpful to distinguish things that are similar but uniquely different. VSRF for example, names their FMICs based on there unique characteristics: 7" - 20x5.75x7.125" / 5" - 20x8x5". I agree it would not make sense to label the more expensive and presumably better product by its height or 5.75" FMIC, then label their second tier product as 8" as this may confuse the consumer... Using the depth as a designation certainly helps distinguish the VSRF line of FMICs 7.5(?), 7.0 and 5.75.

Since Wagner makes two EVO II models: Competition and Performance, I decided to label them based on what was different or height, 8" and 6", respectively...

I'm currently unaware of any industry standard as far as nomenclature goes for FMICs other then the length, height and of course the depth. Perhaps you can explain more on this topic...

Every intercooler on this platform rates their intercooler by depth, historically speaking.

ETS 5"
ETS 7"
VRSF 5"
VRSF 7"
ER 6"
Mishimoto 5"
AA 5"

ETC ETC

Your separation of the two wagner intercoolers height is understandable but only when comparing those 2 intercoolers would it make sense. Most guys in this platform don't talk much about height, it was always about core depth for a while. I've been here since 2008

That being said, size isn't everything as core efficiency and other dynamics play an important role.

[MNick]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Every intercooler on this platform rates their intercooler by depth, historically speaking.

ETS 5"
ETS 7"
VRSF 5"
VRSF 7"
ER 6"
Mishimoto 5"
AA 5"

ETC ETC

Your separation of the two wagner intercoolers height is understandable but only when comparing those 2 intercoolers would it make sense. Most guys in this platform don't talk much about height, it was always about core depth for a while. I've been here since 2008

That being said, size isn't everything as core efficiency and other dynamics play an important role.

Common Jeff,

"For this platform", "historically", really???

Historical speaking for this platform, You have NEVER sold an AA 5" FMIC. I know this based on the fact that they do not produce such a product.
Reference link below:
http://store.activeautowerke.com/col...-sport-version


Mishomoto as per their web site they actually do not call this a 5" but rather their "Performance Intercooler". Additionally this specific product's dimensions are 20.47" x 5.12" x 5.31" so you are just as, if not more, likely to be talking about its height by calling it a 5" FMIC...

Lastly ER... again per their website does not use depth as its name. Their FMIC is awesome: excellent looking IAT, via BQ's logs and quality is spot on. Its dimensions are: 20"x5.5"x6".

Your response reiterate my point above; that these designations are not an industry standard but rather a companies decision.

So your list should look like this (historical speaking for N55/N54):

VSRF
ETS

As I mentioned previously in the post you replied to.

[BQTuning]

Thread has reopened, would like more people to post logs with your IAT, fuel and mods

thanks

[Rob_BMW_PNW]

N55
135i DCT
5 Inch ETS FMIC with 50% meth
CP
92 Octane
Stock everything else
Done at night so probably around 75~
http://datazap.me/u/robertnguyen723/...0&data=4-13-16

[threetirtyfive]

335I stage 2+ wedge tune
7" Chinese Wagner style fmic
http://datazap.me/u/threetirtyfive/fmic-install
48.2f ambient
95RON

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MNick

Common Jeff,

"For this platform", "historically", really???

Historical speaking for this platform, You have NEVER sold an AA 5" FMIC. I know this based on the fact that they do not produce such a product.
Reference link below:
http://store.activeautowerke.com/col...-sport-version


Mishomoto as per their web site they actually do not call this a 5" but rather their "Performance Intercooler". Additionally this specific product's dimensions are 20.47" x 5.12" x 5.31" so you are just as, if not more, likely to be talking about its height by calling it a 5" FMIC...

Lastly ER... again per their website does not use depth as its name. Their FMIC is awesome: excellent looking IAT, via BQ's logs and quality is spot on. Its dimensions are: 20"x5.5"x6".

Your response reiterate my point above; that these designations are not an industry standard but rather a companies decision.

So your list should look like this (historical speaking for N55/N54):

VSRF
ETS

As I mentioned previously in the post you replied to.

I know this is an old post but I just caught it and it gave me quite a chuckle so I'll bite.

First and foremost, let's keep my business and company out the equation, thank you.

Second, I never once mentioned the manufacturer as part of the basis, I said platform.

The platform in my eyes are the forum members and enthusiasts in this community.

Since you've only been here since 2014 you probably haven't sifted through the thousands and thousand of posts on this forum like I have since I've been here since 2008.

So my point and only point here and now is this, my remark was about people referencing their intercoolers based on core size in this platform (AKA community/forums).

Here is a quick search and example where the core size was the basis of their questions or statements (There are 100's of these remarks about core size all over the forum):

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=er+FMIC

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=er+FMIC

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...hlight=er+FMIC

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=intercooler

However, as you found out there are still some manufactures who remark their core size as the basis of choice.

Obviously not everyone is going to remark "Oh I have the Evolution Racewerks FMIC 20"x5.5"x6 intercooler". It's much more easier and transparent to say ER or ER 6". I've seen many posts where people say "How big is the ER FMIC" and someone would reply 6" and not the full core dimensions. Feel free to search the forum and you'll find people remark on the core size for the above mentioned intercoolers at some point or another and likely quite often for some manufacturers. Especially those manufacturers who make more then 1 core size, like ETS and VRSF. For the manufacturers who only make one size, it's probably not often spelled out for the sake of simplicity and ease.

In this case of what your point was, I'm not sure your true intentions.

I'm only here to help and educate. If you find my remarks offensive or erroneous I apologize but I do the best I can to give unbiased answers and truthful responses. I seldom find myself completely off base and wrong - as in this case my point about the platform and community is still in fact true. There are many many posts where people label their intercoolers with a core size. There are also plenty of posts where they don't too, I'm sure. But in the end, it's not really as outlandish as you make it out to be for the remarks about core size to be so unheard of, it's actually pretty common in this platform.

Happy Modding.

[MNick]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

I know this is an old post but

I seldom find myself completely off base and wrong...

Happy Modding.

I've quoted the most important things you've wrote... I can't argue with people who are seldomly wrong...

But...

It was never a debate about core size, only a debate about referencing height versus depth as an industry standard.

I been here since 2011 and created a membership thereafter... This is my hobby and after creating one of the fastest stock turbo N54's in the Tampa area I've learned that there are a lot of people who don't know what they are talking about.

Please consider that you can feel right about being incorrect and seldomly know it. Arrogance prevents you from seeing it.

Clout should not be used to make your case, even if you think you have read more since 2008... I think this is the second time you have mentioned this... It's absolutely a waste of time to mention as it's clear on your profile. Save ur CMC joint and never type it again.

I think you're underestimation of what I've read and know is off base, but thanks for the very relevant and insightful update on u Jeff 6 month later.

Happy holidays!!!

[bartbes]

http://www.datazap.me/u/bartbes/fbo-...3-14-21&solo=3

Pure stage 2, fbo, mmp inlets outlets, 93oct no meth.
Wagner evo 2 competition intercooler

[Captain Canuck]

Originally Posted by bartbes

http://www.datazap.me/u/bartbes/fbo-...3-14-21&solo=3

Pure stage 2, fbo, mmp inlets outlets, 93oct no meth.
Wagner evo 2 competition intercooler

Are you running the stock Tmap sensor? Your boost is over target and mostly pegged flat at 21.8 psi. Are you not concerned with knowing how much you're actually boosting?

[bartbes]

I am running the n20 tmap sensor but I think wedge missed the information when he made this tune. Thougt I was boosting 21.8psi. I did cross the n20 tmap when flashing with mhd. Should I be concerned or look in to it?

Thanks

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MNick

I've quoted the most important things you've wrote... I can't argue with people who are seldomly wrong...

But...

It was never a debate about core size, only a debate about referencing height versus depth as an industry standard.

I been here since 2011 and created a membership thereafter... This is my hobby and after creating one of the fastest stock turbo N54's in the Tampa area I've learned that there are a lot of people who don't know what they are talking about.

Please consider that you can feel right about being incorrect and seldomly know it. Arrogance prevents you from seeing it.

Clout should not be used to make your case, even if you think you have read more since 2008... I think this is the second time you have mentioned this... It's absolutely a waste of time to mention as it's clear on your profile. Save ur CMC joint and never type it again.

I think you're underestimation of what I've read and know is off base, but thanks for the very relevant and insightful update on u Jeff 6 month later.

Happy holidays!!!

Once again you can't seem to grasp that I never said CORE SIZE was "INDUSTRY STANDARD".

I said its commonly used in the platform. (Historically to be exact). Again, 100's and 100's of post with people referencing core size on this platform.

Putting words in my mouth is the same problem with most forum discussions. They read something, then add to it and put their own spin on it.

Don't over think a simple discussion. It is in FACT still common practice for people to reference their core size on this platform. There is really no way around beating this argument the proof is in the 100's and 100's of posts.

If you need help finding the search button, I'd be happy to send you a screen shot of where it is. It seems like after creating 2 profiles you may need to browse the forums a little more on what is common practice.

[MNick]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Once again you can't seem to grasp that I never said CORE SIZE was "INDUSTRY STANDARD".

Our discussion over an arbitrary detail is really unimportant. But since you are chuckling and biting at the chance...

You said, "Every intercooler on this platform rates their intercooler by depth, historically speaking" and now you are saying it's common place for 100s and 100's to reference core size? core size or core depth? Please clarify

I understand what is commonplace herein don't condescend to me lol.

I'm led to believe that depth is the designation used as industry standard by the quote below.

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

The 6" designation of the AA and every other intercooler is the depth, not height.

All I'm saying is ur wrong.

I think what Tiago meant to say is that every other intercooler limit to but not exclusively on this platform. However as I pointed out in following post was that the actual size Of the " 6 AA" wasn't the actual depth. And as we both pointed out many companies making multiple versions will designate by their differences.

The only intent I could be guilty of having is to make for those producing to make their products better, and those selling to not be so condescending.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MNick

Our discussion over an arbitrary detail is really unimportant. But since you are chuckling and biting at the chance...

You said, "Every intercooler on this platform rates their intercooler by depth, historically speaking" and now you are saying it's common place for 100s and 100's to reference core size? core size or core depth? Please clarify

I understand what is commonplace herein don't condescend to me lol.

I'm led to believe that depth is the designation used as industry standard by the quote below.


All I'm saying is ur wrong.

I think what Tiago meant to say is that every other intercooler limit to but not exclusively on this platform. However as I pointed out in following post was that the actual size Of the " 6 AA" wasn't the actual depth. And as we both pointed out many companies making multiple versions will designate by their differences.

The only intent I could be guilty of having is to make for those producing to make their products better, and those selling to not be so condescending.

Core depth is commonly used in this platform / community was what I meant to say.

Overall core dimensions although available are rarely used within the community.

This is not to say they have no merit( or never mentioned)they do but typically people remark the core depth only.

In a case of a low depth intercooler, say 3inch, one may remark the intercooler height to counteract the lack of depth.

I understand that you are looking for the attention to detail.

Hope this helps clarifies better. I'm not the enemy here. We are all on the same team.

Hopefully we can move forward.

[Captain Canuck]

Originally Posted by bartbes

I am running the n20 tmap sensor but I think wedge missed the information when he made this tune. Thougt I was boosting 21.8psi. I did cross the n20 tmap when flashing with mhd. Should I be concerned or look in to it?

Thanks

It looks like you're boosting more that 21.8 and your Tmap sensor is maxed out. I think there are tables that need to be scaled differently along with checking the N20 Tmap option in MHD, but Wedge should know. If it was me I would want to know how much boost I was running.

[MNick]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

Core depth is commonly used in this platform / community was what I meant to say.

Overall core dimensions although available are rarely used within the community.

Hope this helps clarifies better. I'm not the enemy here. We are all on the same team.

Hopefully we can move forward.

Thanks for the redaction or clarification. I knew what you meant, just being detailed oriented.

I would never see you as the enemy. You typically remain very neutral and well positioned on topics.

Core volume is an underestimated consideration in some FMIC designs either too big or too small can be can be problematic. And like you mentioned, it does have merit.

Enjoy your holiday!

[Brule]

Can we get some of the new vrsf stepped intercooler logs?

[studio54]

Hi,

N54 135i with 64k miles

Log is a full 3rd to 4th pull
(wasn't the first pulls)

Mods list :

ER Chargepipe
Forge DV
Wagner DP
Forge FMIC (using OEM factory c-clips connectors)
BMC Drop-in

Ambient temp was 63°F (17°C)

IAT raise from 75°F to 104°F at the end of the 4th gear. (+29°F delta)

Never been really satisfied with the Forge FMIC. I don't know if all aftermarket FMIC that uses OEM connector suffers from some pressure drop and a lack of low end response, but when going from stock FMIC to the Forge, i immediatly felt a kind of lag at low end. I am pretty sure the air flow is not great and make turbos working harder. Replaced the gaskets (green & black) of the stock inlet/oulet with no change.

I will probably replace it soon, so i am searching a FMIC with the least pressure drop while having a correct cooling and with an easy installation, and i was thinking about the 5" VRSF that seems to gather all this. Any advice ?


Log link : https://datazap.me/u/studio54/log-15...10-11-14-23-29

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by studio54

Hi,

N54 135i with 64k miles

Log is a full 3rd to 4th pull
(wasn't the first pulls)

Mods list :

ER Chargepipe
Forge DV
Wagner DP
Forge FMIC (using OEM factory c-clips connectors)
BMC Drop-in

Ambient temp was 63°F (17°C)

IAT raise from 75°F to 104°F at the end of the 4th gear. (+29°F delta)

Never been really satisfied with the Forge FMIC. I don't know if all aftermarket FMIC that uses OEM connector suffers from some pressure drop and a lack of low end response, but when going from stock FMIC to the Forge, i immediatly felt a kind of lag at low end. I am pretty sure the air flow is not great and make turbos working harder. Replaced the gaskets (green & black) of the stock inlet/oulet with no change.

I will probably replace it soon, so i am searching a FMIC with the least pressure drop while having a correct cooling and with an easy installation, and i was thinking about the 5" VRSF that seems to gather all this. Any advice ?


Log link : https://datazap.me/u/studio54/log-15...10-11-14-23-29

VRSF HD 7” or 7.5” race