[TooManyIDs]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

hahaha, well hey... even with these little problems this car is still more reliable than any car American made car.

UdubBadger,
Can't agree with that. Ran a couple of my Vettes pretty hard at the track (see sig). They always came back for more without complaint or making these little girlie sounds.

I would never dare go there with this car.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by TooManyIDs

UdubBadger,
Can't agree with that. Ran a couple of my Vettes pretty hard at the track (see sig). They always came back for more without complaint or making these little girlie sounds.

I would never dare go there with this car.

ok well a vette is kinda in its own class... I was talking more "luxury" type sedans

[JRJ1970]

Originally Posted by TooManyIDs

UdubBadger,
Can't agree with that. Ran a couple of my Vettes pretty hard at the track (see sig). They always came back for more without complaint or making these little girlie sounds.

I would never dare go there with this car.

If you tracked a BMW, even with this discussed ticking, it would not be making any weird or "girlie" sounds. Most of those complaining of the ticking are afflicted with it during cold starts...goes away when warmed up. These engines, ticking or not, love to be driven! BMWs engines are awesome, I don't care what anybody says. Damn reliable from my personal experience. I won't own anything else. I love BMW!

[TooManyIDs]

Originally Posted by jrjinsa

If you tracked a BMW, even with this discussed ticking, it would not be making any weird or "girlie" sounds. Most of those complaining of the ticking are afflicted with it during cold starts...goes away when warmed up. These engines, ticking or not, love to be driven! BMWs engines are awesome, I don't care what anybody says. Damn reliable from my personal experience. I won't own anything else. I love BMW!

I was trying to figure out why mine was still making noise after the exhaust HVA's were replaced. Wasn't just cold engine. My wife would take it out on an errand and it would still be making noise when she got home. Motor was well warm by then.

Other reasons not to track this car. The current 3 series is about 800 pounds too heavy. Mine is also an automatic, so forget it. Tried to find a manual, but that is a long story for another time.

The new parts, HVA & cylinder head, have been changed, so basically says the engineers agreed a fix was needed, right? Not trying to slam here, but I expect BMW, with its reputation, to get it right the first time.

In fairness, early LS1 Corvettes weren't immune either, they had some issues with piston rings to work through.

[bimmertt]

so will is this ticking an actual problem or is it just a nuisance? still getting it occasionally in my 335i on cold starts.

[TooManyIDs]

Still reading through the old posts, couple references to it not being harmful. My dealer also said the car could be driven while the parts were being ordered (but I left it there instead).

Found other posts showing abnormal wear to various parts in the cylinder head.

The first post in this thread was in 2006. I'm wondering why we are still reading about this? The replacements parts have a different design, so why weren't they introduced as standard production?

I'll keep reading.

[TooManyIDs]

Originally Posted by MonacoBimm

Hahaha wow it sounds like a diesel F350 SUPER DUTY truck!

I actually told my service advisor that it sounded like a diesel when it was making the tapping.

[TooManyIDs]

Originally Posted by Alpine

For those of us with the ticking:

Do you drive on the interstate very often? Do you mainly use your car for short in-town trips or for commuting?

It would seem to me that those of us that recognize the ticking the most are the ones who aren't driving at high rpms for a long time (which quiets the ticking). The problem could be in every e90, but only a few of us don't drive on the interstates regularly. Just a thought...

This post is from page 27, I'm still going through this crazy thread.

In my case, the car is only used for short, in-town, errands. Which apparently creates a low rpm oiling issue in the cylinder head.

[Brad335d]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

hahaha, well hey... even with these little problems this car is still more reliable than any car American made car.

I'm going to say you're incorrect there.

I've owned several American cars prior to this BMW and I've spent more time in the dealer for little items than I ever did with my LS1 Firebird Formula, Camaro Z28 (that was a 408ci with 150hp N20 wet kit), and my C5 Z06 that was a also built and used a lot for track duty as well as daily driving. Both the Z28 and Z06 were highly modified cars that rarely had any issues, the Formula was stock except for cat-back and the only issue was a window motor. BMW builds a very good car thats comfortable, and yet fun to drive. However, this car has been more maintenance intensive then any previous car I've owned. I've been into the dealer for HPFP, ignition key issues, steering wheel lock issues, reprogramming to cure other electrical bugs, addition of oil cooler, oil filter adapter leak, transmission shift seal leak, and then just regular maintenance items (brakes, oil, tire rotation). So to say that BMW are more reliable cars, I feel is just plain wrong. Tighter more stringent build tolerances, for the most part yes.

[UdubBadger]

Originally Posted by BradZTL

I'm going to say you're incorrect there.

I've owned American several cars prior to this BMW and I've spent more time in the dealer for little items than I ever did with my LS1 Firebird Formula, Camaro Z28 (that was a 408ci with 150hp N20 wet kit), and my C5 Z06 that was a also built and used a lot for track duty as well as daily driving. Both the Z28 and Z06 were highly modified cars that rarely had any issues, the Formula was stock except for cat-back and the only issue was a window motor. BMW builds a very good car thats comfortable, and yet fun to drive. However, this car has been more maintenance intensive then any previous car I've owned. I've been into the dealer for HPFP, ignition key issues, steering wheel lock issues, reprogramming to cure other electrical bugs, addition of oil cooler, oil filter adapter leak, transmission shift seal leak, and then just regular maintenance items (brakes, oil, tire rotation). So to say that BMW are more reliable cars, I feel is just plain wrong. Tighter more stringent build tolerances, for the most part yes.

and again I'll respond by saying I was talking about cars all in the same class. Vetts are a different class of car than ANYTHING GM makes. The Z28's my friends had were always having something wrong with them, easy fixes but a lot of time spent on the lift, but again, thats a specific case. There are always going to be American cars that somebody owns that don't have any problems, there are always going to be BMW's people own that have a lot. My parents had 2 Ford Taurus' and 2 Ford Explorers, all of which were in the shop for repair 3-5 times a year, sometimes not fixing the same problem until the 3-4th visit. One of our Explorers was so bad the dealership had to buy it back and give us an Eddie Bauer Edition below invoice. My point is just saying, as a whole and looking at the larger picture outside of just what cars you've owned, BMW's are still a bit more reliable than most American brands - based on the companies entire model line up, not just the 1 or 2 you or I have driven.

[TooManyIDs]

Just went through the thread stack. For anyone just jumping to the end, trying to summarize here, it seems to be a low RPM oiling issue with the N52 engine, short errands aggravate the situation. The ultimate fix seems to be a new cylinder head with a check valve that ensures proper oil pressure is maintained in the cylinder head. Unfortunately, SIB still instructs the dealer to change the exhaust-side hydraulic valve actuators first. So, it means you will make at least two trips to the dealer before it gets done right.

Cylinder head replacement was almost always a permanent fix, but there are a couple posts by people that continued to have problems.

Some early posts showing scored parts, due to lack of oiling, so I would question any comments indicating this is just a cosmetic fix. Based on the expense, I'd have trouble believing BMW is authorizing the repairs based just on cosmetics.

The latest SIB, quoted below, confirms which cylinder heads were bad and based on the date, does look like early 2009 builds (guess on my part, don't have actual production dates) used old parts before the new parts were finally incorporated into production. Keep that in mind if you are looking at a CPO. It's approximately a $7.5k fix out of warranty.

Page 49, post # 1058

Originally Posted by cimbali

September 2009

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI B11 09 07 dated January 2009.

SUBJECT
Intermittent Hydraulic Valve Adjuster (HVA) Noise

MODEL
All E82, E83, E88, E85, E86, E60, E61, E70, E90, E91, E92 and E93 vehicles with N51, N52 or N52K engines produced approximately up to November 31st 2008; refer to cylinder head casting identification attachment.


SITUATION
An occasional ticking or rattling noise from the camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA) may occur during cold engine starts, due to frequent short-distance driving, or the noise may occur for an extended period of time even though the engine is at operating temperature.

Improved parts were phased into production beginning on 10/1/2008 and fully implemented on November 31st 2008.

CORRECTION
Do not perform the bleeding procedure that was previously provided in SI B11 09 07 which has now been deleted.

All vehicles produced between 10/1/2008 and 11/31/2008 must have each vehicle's cylinder head casting number identified before hydraulic valve lifters (HVA) replacement, due to staggered implementation. Refer to the attachment for the casting number location. Vehicles produced after 11/31/2008 have already been fitted with improved parts. Vehicles produced prior to 10/1/2008 will require the new parts.

Improved Casting Numbers

N51 (B30)
7588277.01

N52 (B30)
7588273.01

N52K (B30)
7588271.01

A cylinder head casting number that does not match will require replacement of the 12 exhaust camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA) as per Repair Instruction RA 11 33 050, Removing and installing/replacing all rocker arms. Only the exhaust camshaft and rocker arms have to be removed in order to replace the hydraulic valve lifters. Do not remove or replace any intake camshaft valve train components.

PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number
Description
Quantity

11 33 7 605 330
Hydraulic Valve Lifter (HVA)
12

Refer to EPC for additional gaskets, seals and bolts, as required by the Repair Instructions.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty, or the Certified Pre-Owned program.

Please refer to the latest KSD for the applicable Main or Associated labor allowance for the specific model.

Defect Code:
11 33 93 39 00


Labor Operation:
Labor Allowance:
Description:

00 58 248
Refer to KSD
Replace exhaust camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA)

*Main Work

or

00 58 827
Refer to KSD
Replace exhaust camshaft hydraulic valve lifters (HVA)

+ Associated Work

Note: The following explanations will spell out the correct use of the work times.

Main Work:
Use this labor operation number when the only repair performed is the listed warranty repair.


OR


+Associated Work:
Use this labor operation number when other repairs or services are performed along with the listed warranty repair.
Under no circumstances should both labor operation numbers be claimed. Attempts to claim both times will result in an unnecessary delay in claim processing and payment.

[UdubBadger]

nice thanks for the write up

[Neutrino45]

I'm cross linking for future reference. Is there a break in period or procedure to follow after a lefter replacement?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351500

Ok, thanks TooManyIDs. Sorry I missed it.

[TooManyIDs]

Originally Posted by Neutrino45

I'm cross linking for future reference. Is there a break in period or procedure to follow after a lefter replacement?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351500

There were a couple posts in this thread that said no.

[Chriztofor]

Shouldn't this be a recall?

[UdubBadger]

keyword is "Should"

[Kroon78]

Lol, there is no word in german for should

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Chriztofor

Shouldn't this be a recall?

So both the 328 and 335 have issues.....I mean I thought $6800 was a lot for 335 turbos, but someone just said the fix on the 328 head is $7500 out of warranty. That's pretty crazy....

I did get a X3 loaner that really sounded like a diesel when it was cold...

[k3m0-330i]

my car ran out of warantry and i have the ticking noise what should i do will it damage my car? can anything happend. is it weather related? what should i do.

[UdubBadger]

you could try to talk to them, say the problem has been well documented and its been happening since before your warranty went out. Just tell um you went to a different dealership and they kept saying they couldn't replicate the noise and you felt it was a BS cop out. Raise a little stink and they might take care of it for you.

[TooManyIDs]

Page 6
11-25-2006, 01:17 PM, post #112

Originally Posted by msinfo_us

All credit goes to M3Wannabe:

Picture 1: Here is the cam.... All of the lobe tips have a rocker-width groove in them at least .004" (1/10mm) deep which reduced the cam's lift..... and almost all of the lobes have brown discolouration from overheating due to very old oil.

Picture 2: Here is one of the rocker arms (a.k.a. cam follower). The face where the cam presses was worn badly, possibly requiring the hydraulic lifter to extend further than it could, resulting in a large gap between the two which would have been making the ticking noise.

The pad that presses onto the lash cap (a.k.a. thrust disc) was also alot thinner than normal.

Picture 3: Here is one of the lash caps (a.k.a. thrust discs). Worn badly just like everything else

Picture 4: Here are 2 of the hydraulic lifters. One has been disassembled. On the right, the smaller piston is hollow and fills with oil under crank case pressure, extending the piston out of the larger casing to take up the pre-load under the rocker arm. If the piston sticks down into the casing, there will be a gap between the ball on top and the rocker arm, which will make a ticking noise.

[k3m0-330i]

Originally Posted by UdubBadger

you could try to talk to them, say the problem has been well documented and its been happening since before your warranty went out. Just tell um you went to a different dealership and they kept saying they couldn't replicate the noise and you felt it was a BS cop out. Raise a little stink and they might take care of it for you.

yea i will try that..and what is a bs cop out