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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Car reducing power via DSC because "brake disc temperature is too high"



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      01-05-2016, 08:24 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
I don't quite believe the MY info. I have a 10/06 build date 335 and I get the brake warning indicator at the track, and my brake sensors have been removed.
Have your modules been updated? That's all it takes to activate the E-diff on the early build pre E-diff cars.
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      01-05-2016, 09:52 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
I don't understand. Both wheels spin endlessly? One wheel spins endlessly? Under what driving conditions? What model and year car are you talking about? Are you turning off the e-diff (ADB system)?
All e90 have e-diff. Even entry level like 316i I have driven in Europe. Its part of the ABS which aplies brakes to the individual wheel or both wheels simultaneously. All newer BMW have it. When you start the car by default the e-diff will work in conjunction with the TC and DSC.When you turn of TC it will continue to work with DSC and allow some wheel spin. All e90 allow you to turn off DSC however the ABS can't be turn off. Now depending on build date but not necessarily when you turn off DSC some e-diff stay on and some turns off. Also depends whether is MT or AT. On a AT car e-diff will not turn off unless you are in Manual mode, at least that is what I have noticed. I have driven probably dozen different e90.
I've shared my cars info above but since you asked here it is again :
E90 335i MT M-tech built in March 2008 so pretty much last build for 2008 titled cars.
When I turn off DSC I can spin one or both wheels like endlessly. Non LSD
Correction -not endlessly because these cars do brake down a LOT.
I track and been out on the track during pouring rain so I can tell you that even at high speeds it will spin the whees. It will even red line. Also, since I live in Chicago and this is my DD I have covered a lot of miles on snowy and icy roads where the wheels do spin.
Aditionally, had plenty of fun at the harbors parking lot that is closed at winter doing power slides and donuts.

That is what I have found from driving and working on these cars.
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      01-05-2016, 10:56 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
All e90 have e-diff. Even entry level like 316i I have driven in Europe. Its part of the ABS which aplies brakes to the individual wheel or both wheels simultaneously. All newer BMW have it. When you start the car by default the e-diff will work in conjunction with the TC and DSC.When you turn of TC it will continue to work with DSC and allow some wheel spin. All e90 allow you to turn off DSC however the ABS can't be turn off. Now depending on build date but not necessarily when you turn off DSC some e-diff stay on and some turns off. Also depends whether is MT or AT. On a AT car e-diff will not turn off unless you are in Manual mode, at least that is what I have noticed. I have driven probably dozen different e90.
I've shared my cars info above but since you asked here it is again :
E90 335i MT M-tech built in March 2008 so pretty much last build for 2008 titled cars.
When I turn off DSC I can spin one or both wheels like endlessly. Non LSD
Correction -not endlessly because these cars do brake down a LOT.
I track and been out on the track during pouring rain so I can tell you that even at high speeds it will spin the whees. It will even red line. Also, since I live in Chicago and this is my DD I have covered a lot of miles on snowy and icy roads where the wheels do spin.
Aditionally, had plenty of fun at the harbors parking lot that is closed at winter doing power slides and donuts.

That is what I have found from driving and working on these cars.
Ah, I think I see where the confusion lies now.

ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) is not the e-diff, ADB (automated differential brake) is. ADB, as seen on 1 series vehicles and 3 series since march of 2008 is a discrete system from ABS (as well as DSC & DTC). It cannot be turned off without coding, not even in Manual mode.

To learn more about the e-diff, or eLSD, or ABD as it is variously called, this forum thread is a good place to start:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719012
The original post contains most of the valuable information that the rest of the thread mulls over.

This write up does a good job encapsulating exactly what the e-diff is:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/11/15...rol-explained/



So, in conclusion, the ADB system is always active, however DSC and DTC can intrude and reduce its effect (cut throttle, apply brakes to realign the car or regain control, etc), but when all nannies are turned off with a 3 second press of the dtc/dsc button, it remains active and operates in the same manner as a mechanical limited slip differential, except it shifts torque via selective and progressive friction on the rear brakes (all brakes in a x-drive vehicle) rather than mechanical friction of gears in an LSD.
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      01-05-2016, 11:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
Ah, I think I see where the confusion lies now.

ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) is not the e-diff, ADB (automated differential brake) is. ADB, as seen on 1 series vehicles and 3 series since march of 2008 is a discrete system from ABS (as well as DSC & DTC). It cannot be turned off without coding, not even in Manual mode.

To learn more about the e-diff, or eLSD, or ABD as it is variously called, this forum thread is a good place to start:
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719012
The original post contains most of the valuable information that the rest of the thread mulls over.

This write up does a good job encapsulating exactly what the e-diff is:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/11/15...rol-explained/



So, in conclusion, the ADB system is always active, however DSC and DTC can intrude and reduce its effect (cut throttle, apply brakes to realign the car or regain control, etc), but when all nannies are turned off with a 3 second press of the dtc/dsc button, it remains active and operates in the same manner as a mechanical limited slip differential, except it shifts torque via selective and progressive friction on the rear brakes (all brakes in a x-drive vehicle) rather than mechanical friction of gears in an LSD.
So, I'm confused now?
Since my car March 2008 it doesn't have e-diff. Correct?
How do you explain 2009 or 2010 that would spin single wheel with DSC turned off?
If yes I assume my 62 years old mother in law took her 2010 e93 335i to have the e-diff coded off because that car for sure as hell would spin only one wheel too.
Just like mine 2008...
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      01-06-2016, 12:00 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMB335IS View Post
Have your modules been updated? That's all it takes to activate the E-diff on the early build pre E-diff cars.
I just had my turbos replaced and the dealer ran the software updates. I have not notice any difference regarding DSC, TC and E-diff. Maybe was only engine software update.
Anyhow, as stated previously 2 track frequent 335i's bulld in 2006 and 2007 suffer from accelerated rear pads wear and reduced engine power even with DSC off.
What that tells us? That they have e-diff that won't turn off.
If 2006 and 2007 has it why mine 2008 doesn't?
Mine will spin single wheel and render me stuck somewhere. If e-diff is always on it would interfere, apply brakes to the spinning wheel so the diff will start turning the other wheel. It doesn't.
That is why I think that 2008 and up can turn it off when DSC is off and older models can't and this is not just from reading on the Web but by driving, especially 335i's, built from late 2006 to late 2009, titled 2007 and 2010 respectively.
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      01-06-2016, 12:18 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feuer View Post
So, I'm confused now?
Since my car March 2008 it doesn't have e-diff. Correct?
How do you explain 2009 or 2010 that would spin single wheel with DSC turned off?
If yes I assume my 62 years old mother in law took her 2010 e93 335i to have the e-diff coded off because that car for sure as hell would spin only one wheel too.
Just like mine 2008...
3 series produced march 2008 onwards have the e-diff as a separate, non-defeatable entity from DSC and DTC according to my research. If your e90 was on the cusp of that timeline, then it is possible it doesn't have the newer standalone ADB system.

If a a 3 series produced beyond that point exhibits continuous single wheel spin, then I can only assume either the e-diff was coded off, or a wire is loose, or there is a malfunction. Continuous single wheel spin wouldn't happen with dsc engaged as the throttle would cut and brakes would engage to correct, and shouldn't happen at all with DTC. With both completely off, the ADB system should be modulating torque similarly to a mechanical LSD without any nannies to intrude.

I once had a loose wire that resulted in the shutdown of the entire stability control suite in my car. I was having single wheel slip off of every light and odd stability issues past 50mph. It was damn scary to drive, actually.

I again can only point you to the links I posted and suggest further researching the problem with you mother in law's car. I am only repeating what I've read and experienced myself.
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      01-06-2016, 12:23 AM   #51
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For those who find clicking on links to be annoying, here is the article on bimmerpost:

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      01-06-2016, 08:04 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozhdbog View Post
I once had a loose wire that resulted in the shutdown of the entire stability control suite in my car. I was having single wheel slip off of every light and odd stability issues past 50mph. It was damn scary to drive, actually.
...and you most definitely had all the lights on the dash come on like Christmas tree. ABS, Brake, Airbag and possibly even transmission malfunction light if car is AT. Something the cars I'm talking about are not experiencing.

Everything works off of the ABS system and impulse reading from the ABS sensors. If a loose wire was ABS cable for the ABS sensor would have resulted in most of the faults I stated above.
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      01-19-2016, 08:43 AM   #53
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Here is a really good break down of the electronic nannies that you might want to look at coding off for track duty.

http://www.onelapx1.com/the-story/ho...w-actually-fun
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      01-24-2016, 10:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwarren View Post
Here is a really good break down of the electronic nannies that you might want to look at coding off for track duty.

http://www.onelapx1.com/the-story/ho...w-actually-fun
Fantastic, great article. Would love to know if any of us 335 guys have tried it and if it solved the issues.
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      01-25-2016, 01:33 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
Fantastic, great article. Would love to know if any of us 335 guys have tried it and if it solved the issues.
Hi,

I am the author of the article and I have coded this stuff off on a couple of my friend's cars who track 335i's. Everybody loves the changes.
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      01-26-2016, 07:21 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Hi,

I am the author of the article and I have coded this stuff off on a couple of my friend's cars who track 335i's. Everybody loves the changes.
Can you offer remote coding for the guys here that are experiencing trouble with this?
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      01-26-2016, 07:39 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by feuer View Post
Can you offer remote coding for the guys here that are experiencing trouble with this?
FWIW, I was talking with the driver and car chief at the shop today about coding out a lot of this stuff and they just looked at me funny and said they just unplug the DSC from the ABS by popping the pins out of the connector to the DME. Reduces the ABS system to purely ABS with no stability inputs from the DSC module which quits doing anything when it loses communication with the DME. Or maybe it's a bit more complicated than that, I was trying to follow the discussion. Regardless, they're going to do it to my car so we can skip the coding other than getting rid of all the warning lights on the dash.
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      01-26-2016, 08:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
FWIW, I was talking with the driver and car chief at the shop today about coding out a lot of this stuff and they just looked at me funny and said they just unplug the DSC from the ABS by popping the pins out of the connector to the DME. Reduces the ABS system to purely ABS with no stability inputs from the DSC module which quits doing anything when it loses communication with the DME. Or maybe it's a bit more complicated than that, I was trying to follow the discussion. Regardless, they're going to do it to my car so we can skip the coding other than getting rid of all the warning lights on the dash.
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      01-26-2016, 08:33 PM   #59
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I don't get it...
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      01-26-2016, 08:39 PM   #60
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I don't get it...
I will be watching to see how this plays out because I would love to do it myself. Sounds simple but I suspect there's a lot more to it. Please keep us posted.
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      01-26-2016, 08:45 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by gavronm View Post
I will be watching to see how this plays out because I would love to do it myself. Sounds simple but I suspect there's a lot more to it. Please keep us posted.
Gotcha, thanks. I know they do this to all their race cars but they haven't done this to an e90 yet but they don't think it's a big deal. If I can get the details on it I'll publish them here. Would be nice to have all the crap nannies gone with only the ABS left behind.
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      01-27-2016, 11:45 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Gotcha, thanks. I know they do this to all their race cars but they haven't done this to an e90 yet but they don't think it's a big deal. If I can get the details on it I'll publish them here. Would be nice to have all the crap nannies gone with only the ABS left behind.
I believe this will cause the trifecta warning lights on the dash/idrive and the car will not be happy. Not a big deal for a race car but for a DD not the best. It would be cool if it didn't though. I know the car is not happy with you pull the dsc/abs fuses, my windshield wipers kept going off nonstop and hazard lights were stuck blinking. But I could dyno the car at least without DSC intervention. Please keep us updated.
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      01-27-2016, 11:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I believe this will cause the trifecta warning lights on the dash/idrive and the car will not be happy. Not a big deal for a race car but for a DD not the best. It would be cool if it didn't though. I know the car is not happy with you pull the dsc/abs fuses, my windshield wipers kept going off nonstop and hazard lights were stuck blinking. But I could dyno the car at least without DSC intervention. Please keep us updated.
You're right, the car won't be happy at all and the light'll light up alllll over the dash. The plan is to then code out the lights including SRS since all that's left is the passenger airbag and that'll go when the dash gets pulled for the cage build-out once it isn't street legal anymore. And yes, it is my DD. Didja know ya can pass safety inspection without SRS but you still need a freakin horn...lol
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