[Torgus]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yikes. Sounds like buster84 has already made up his mind.

So you released a product a year ago and it still isn't working correctly and you are still needing local testers? I am not bashing you just trying to understand the facts. I am interested in the flex fuel option but not if it isn't working 100% and hasn't been on a few cars for a few months...

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Nugget

A JB4 on Map 5 works well with E85, plus their support is excellent.
Plus I believe they will soon be providing (at no charge) their back end DME flash which can be uploaded with the Open Tablet or the Open Source flashing solution (currently need a Cobb AP).

If the jb4 has a decent way of detecting ethanol and can adjust timing accordingly then it would be worth it.

Originally Posted by Torgus

So you released a product a year ago and it still isn't working correctly and you are still needing local testers? I am not bashing you just trying to understand the facts. I am interested in the flex fuel option but not if it isn't working 100% and hasn't been on a few cars for a few months...

Just to let you know and anyone else in this thread. (YOU DO NOT NEED A FLEX FUEL KIT TO RUN 100% E85).

The Stock DME in both 335 and m3 are target based closed loop which means that your DME always asks for the correct amount of fuel. Flex fuel kit just adjusts the aggressiveness of the tune based on the ethanol content. (with a maximum 34% correction without a tune adjustment)

If the JB4 can do this just as well then you wont need the $600 Procede and the $800 flex fuel kit. I know nothing about the Jb4, only terry can comment on this.

So no matter what you do you can run 100% Ethenol and the computer will adjust for it; however, it wont increase timing so the benefit of running e85 is smaller but still better than 91 especially in CA. You still need a bigger fuel pump for full e85 but you can run e30 and possibly e50 (depending on your lpfp strength) and have nothing to worry about.

Benefits

1) fuel burns cooler
2) On high temp days or if your car runs hot your car will not retard timing
3) Its cheaper per gallon
4) It reduces air pollution (if you like that feature)
5) You can run more boost with higher compression like our engines are since its 10:1
6) Octane rating will be much higher than you can get with pump gas

negatives

1) less mpg
2) requires a bigger fuel pump/s
3) can deteriorate fuel injectors (old ones, new ones seem to be much better)
4) can deteriorate o-rings and fuel related items over time.
5) if it sits in your tank for to long you can get alot of condensation.

Its up to you on what you choose but for me the benefits outweigh the issues. Fixing injectors, o-rings, and thinks like that over time are not a big deal considering your basically running a (race) gas all the time.

The flex fuel kit only gives you more timing to increase the hp. You can get a custom Dyno tune at e50, e70, and e85 and run your timing according to your ethanol content. There are digital gauges or test strips you can buy to find out. You can also edit your own tune and do custom fuel scalers and timing tables.

If you want a (set it, and forget it) type of setup, then get the procede/flex fuel kit.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by buster84

If you want a (set it, and forget it) type of setup, then get the procede/flex fuel kit.

But it doesn't sound like it is working as advertised, by multiple people in this thread, after it has been out for over a year. I am mistaken?

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Torgus

But it doesn't sound like it is working as advertised, by multiple people in this thread, after it has been out for over a year. I am mistaken?

I cant really say on this since i never owned the kit and wont be owning it. I don't really care for the Extra 10-30hp you might get from it. I'll probably just adjust the timing to e50 results and leave it at that since I'll be sticking at least 80% e85 in the tank. Even if you set the timing to high the computer will retard it on its own since that's what it does best on regular 91 gas.

That makes me wonder how much timing it can adjust for. If the computer is as good as it seems I don't see why you cant just tune it for e85 and let the computer remove timing as it see's fit.

[ptwob311]

FWIW,
I tend to read a lot more than post... see post numbers.
Have had PROcede since '09 no problems
Got Flex Fuel Kit about 3 weeks ago, slight snag during install (wiring issue) other than that NO PROBLEMS... runs great. Fill up on whatever fuel is available and just haul ass....

I have not had any problems with the firmware/maps posted on the Vishnu site.

My $0.02

not trying to get in the "Vendor War"...I post to genuinely ask, what is/are the firmware, systems problems you guys are speaking of?

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by ptwob311

FWIW,
I tend to read a lot more than post... see post numbers.
Have had PROcede since '09 no problems
Got Flex Fuel Kit about 3 weeks ago, slight snag during install (wiring issue) other than that NO PROBLEMS... runs great. Fill up on whatever fuel is available and just haul ass....

I have not had any problems with the firmware/maps posted on the Vishnu site.

My $0.02

not trying to get in the "Vendor War"...I post to genuinely ask, what is/are the firmware, systems problems you guys are speaking of?

Under boost codes at sustained partial throttle in 4th through 6th gear, as well as some really rough cold starts, these are issues I saw when I was running the old firmware, when the kit was released it was during the time when no one was running straight e85, so since then Shiv has been working on the final firmware for straight e85 and any mix in between.

My cold starts are pretty much just as nice as pump gas now on straight e85, and I also do not get the under boost code at partial throttle anymore.

[JO3]

Shiv,

I sent you a PM. You can reply to it even if you're in a delirious state, I won't mind

[litxus]

Originally Posted by ptwob311

FWIW,
I tend to read a lot more than post... see post numbers.
Have had PROcede since '09 no problems
Got Flex Fuel Kit about 3 weeks ago, slight snag during install (wiring issue) other than that NO PROBLEMS... runs great. Fill up on whatever fuel is available and just haul ass....

I have not had any problems with the firmware/maps posted on the Vishnu site.

My $0.02

not trying to get in the "Vendor War"...I post to genuinely ask, what is/are the firmware, systems problems you guys are speaking of?

For firmware we are talking about the one that was supposed to be released few weeks ago or so. It would unlock all Procedes and other updates...

[Ferruccio]

I'm currently still waiting on the new Flex Fuel firmware. I will try to keep this thread updated with an intermittent "pip" of sorts, much like this post. Nothing new, just updating saying that things remain the same.

[OpenFlash]

Just a reminder: the new firmware requires a new DME flash. We will create an XDF patch for the new DME flash and post it up with the new firmware. But you will either need to ship the dme to us, use an OpenFlash tablet, or visit a shop that has dme flashing capabilities to upload the new file on to your dme.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Just a reminder: the new firmware requires a new DME flash. We will create an XDF patch for the new DME flash and post it up with the new firmware. But you will either need to ship the dme to us, use an OpenFlash tablet, or visit a shop that has dme flashing capabilities to upload the new file on to your dme.

I should probably take the shop route. It's an XDF file that I would be loading onto the car via OBD-II?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

I should probably take the shop route. It's an XDF file that I would be loading onto the car via OBD-II?

The XDF file will modify your existing ROM in Tuner Pro rom editing software. It's unlikely the shop you go to, unless they use OpenFlash, will do this for you. In that case, you can have them read your DME, email me the rom file, and I'll send back a modified version of the ROM suitable for the new flexfuel firmware. I can't promise that this can be done while you wait at the shop but I'll do my best to accommodate.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The XDF file will modify your existing ROM in Tuner Pro rom editing software. It's unlikely the shop you go to, unless they use OpenFlash, will do this for you. In that case, you can have them read your DME, email me the rom file, and I'll send back a modified version of the ROM suitable for the new flexfuel firmware. I can't promise that this can be done while you wait at the shop but I'll do my best to accommodate.

So, I'd go to a tuner who is capable of reading my ROM, then you modify it and mail it back to them so they can reflash? This assumes that they do not use OpenFlash.

[Jeller]

I sold my car so anyone looking for a rev3/flex fuel kit I am selling mine http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=870283

I loved having the kit, once you have the kit installed you can really see how much ethanol you are really getting all the time and not just guessing.

[Die_Low]

@shiv, for those of us running the old bad dme flash for the flex fuel; if we send in our dme to get reflashed is it free of charge? Or do we all have to pay you again?

[Ferruccio]

I'm hoping that I can just get the XDF files so I can do the flashing my own time with someone who has an open flash tablet. I don't feel like buying another product for a bug fix.

[corbs09]

After reading this thread.. this product seems like a pretty big bust. You must buy other supporting products and have your DME reflashed... and people have been waiting over a year for support?!

Sounds like an all too familiar shop starts pumping out products, and does not have the available staff/measures to support them. I understand running lean as far as staff goes, but to put one product (that you have already sold) on the back burner to start another is just bad business. Too bad, because I was really liking the sound of the Opensource Tablet... but not if the customer service is non existent.

[Bavarian Black]

Sorry if this is off topic....but I hear a lot of you talking about 91 and 93 octane.

Same as London...

Now in Lebanon, we have 95 or 98 octane (unleaded of course). Why and what is the difference ESP if I instal my JB4 soon. we only have 95 or 98.

Thanks
BB

[corbs09]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Black

Sorry if this is off topic....but I hear a lot of you talking about 91 and 93 octane.

Same as London...

Now in Lebanon, we have 95 or 98 octane (unleaded of course). Why and what is the difference ESP if I instal my JB4 soon. we only have 95 or 98.

Thanks
BB

It is measured differently over the pond. 91 is 95 RON and 93 is 98 RON.. use 98!

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Black

Sorry if this is off topic....but I hear a lot of you talking about 91 and 93 octane.

Same as London...

Now in Lebanon, we have 95 or 98 octane (unleaded of course). Why and what is the difference ESP if I instal my JB4 soon. we only have 95 or 98.

Thanks
BB

Your country uses RON. USA uses AKI.

RON = Research Octane number
MON = Motor Octane Number
AKI = Anti-Knock Index

USA AKI 91 = (RON 95 + MON 86)/2

Please make your own thread if you have further questions.

Originally Posted by corbs09

After reading this thread.. this product seems like a pretty big bust. You must buy other supporting products and have your DME reflashed... and people have been waiting over a year for support?!

Sounds like an all too familiar shop starts pumping out products, and does not have the available staff/measures to support them. I understand running lean as far as staff goes, but to put one product (that you have already sold) on the back burner to start another is just bad business. Too bad, because I was really liking the sound of the Opensource Tablet... but not if the customer service is non existent.

My number 1 hope is that I do not need to further purchase products and services (lost time by having my car out of order for the days/weeks it takes to mail a DME) to patch the firmware and the DME. I still have hope that they will provide the files so I can simply wait until a friend with an openflash tablet is available. That would be ideal.

[corbs09]

I would hope so for your sake... I REALLY want that opensource tablet.. but I like customer service.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

Your country uses RON. USA uses AKI.

RON = Research Octane number
MON = Motor Octane Number
AKI = Anti-Knock Index

USA AKI 91 = (RON 95 + MON 86)/2

Please make your own thread if you have further questions.



My number 1 hope is that I do not need to further purchase products and services (lost time by having my car out of order for the days/weeks it takes to mail a DME) to patch the firmware and the DME. I still have hope that they will provide the files so I can simply wait until a friend with an openflash tablet is available. That would be ideal.

The openflash tablet can only be used on one car at a time so if its flashed to your car your friend basically looses out on that $400. If your referring to open source then you'll spend a good amount just on that BT cable, but if you friend gets it he can program your car no problem. The cords have a certain number of vins before you need a new one and i think a fully unlocked one is $$$ not sure. Its what ive read and i never researched it since its not really something i care about since i have the openflash.