[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

G4 doesn't adjust timing or even drive boost solenoids directly. I think customer loyalty is nice when it's earned.

More hate. You'd be surprised what you can do with CAN when you're not just using BT commands.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by onesuperboi

BTW, How many tuned miles does Terry's N54 have? You have around 50-60K that include all those dynos and runs on the track, right?

Not sure how many miles Terry has on his car, but I will ask. I have about 50K on mine with the JB3, and its tracked (road course), dynoed, etc.

Mike

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

More hate. You'd be surprised what you can do with CAN when you're not just using BT commands.

Mike

This is funny. "BT commands?" They are HEX CODES sent over the CAN BUS. You yourself even said this defending your CAN implementation before as a response to allegations you were copying the procede commands. Do you mean the CAN id sent with the commands? Which of course doesn't matter?

Using your logic, there'd be a lot of pissed off programmers accusing others of using the "if" and "else" statements.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

Nice, looks like those plugs were a bit easier to get to than on the J-Series implementation.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Using your logic, there'd be a lot of pissed off programmers accusing others of using the "if" and "else" statements.

What do you mean, you have been using IF...Then as well?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

G4 doesn't adjust timing or even drive boost solenoids directly. I think customer loyalty is nice when it's earned.

Didn't they say G4 will have CPS offsetting (autotuning)? I'm "REALLY" confused trying to wade through these marketing wars on every corner

[DefactoM6]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Didn't they say G4 will have CPS offsetting (autotuning)? I'm "REALLY" confused trying to wade through these marketing wars on every corner

+1. I think it's a bit silly to speculate on something that hasn't been released yet, regardless of how likely the speculations may seem.

[phazedkid]

Maybe all this talk about what G4 will (or will not) have will actually finally force Terry to implement CPS offsetting. Just so he can say, "see? F you Shiv," which will actually prove Shiv's point about BMS not having their act together and scamming people early on, etc. etc.

oops. did I just spoil this soap opera?

In all seriousness, I'm learning a lot from the technical discussions in this thread. Thanks and keep it up. BTW, it would be GREAT if Corky can contribute here.

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Didn't they say G4 will have CPS offsetting (autotuning)? I'm "REALLY" confused trying to wade through these marketing wars on every corner

Marketing wars? That is a joke right?

[techlogik]

Originally Posted by scottp999

Sometimes I like to take a stroll down memory lane, to May 2007, when Terry first offered for sale a $2 Terry Tuner where he would take .50 cents up front, based on info that was posted earlier. The start of a not so friendly battle:



The war started here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...y+tuner&page=2

Here we go.....it's on!!!!

Seriously, people with a join date and not following this forum before 3+ years ago and when Terry started all of his "tuning", would be surprised what wagon they are hitched to.

If it isn't obvious with all the facts Shiv and other's have posted who knows WTF they are really doing, then there is no hope for them. Terry counts on that...and Mike for that matter...

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by techlogik

Marketing wars? That is a joke right?

what part of that sounded like a joke?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Nice, looks like those plugs were a bit easier to get to than on the J-Series implementation.

About 5 minutes if your slow

[Ilma]

I have learned a lot from this discussion ......so I am glad the moderators kept the thread open!

I am not one to necessarily take the word of any tuner trying to sell me their product so I have learned to look for validation/affirmation of their claims from my own testing and research.

I have to admit that as much as I was a procede basher at the start.....when I started listening and thinking about what Shiv was actually explaining, then found cross-validation to his statements in external publications about engine fundamentals, I found him to have a lot of credibility.

I now understand why the Procede didn't feel as powerful as the JB3 in the pre-canbus era, because timing was being adjusted to give the customer a margin of safety when increasing boost.

This is not to say that certain customers who went beyond the recommended settings did not experience knock - they did.

In hindsight, I can see that there was some wisdom behind not pushing the limits too far.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Didn't they say G4 will have CPS offsetting (autotuning)? I'm "REALLY" confused trying to wade through these marketing wars on every corner

It's amazing Shiv knows so much about products that have not been released yet.

The G4 features autotuning, CAN, integrated gauges and options using the steering wheel controls and dash, and a new boost control system BMS has designed. In theory it could support isolated control as well (ala CPE/V4) but the new method offers advantages for daily drivers and automatics and is bog free for manuals. Also has progressive methanol inputs (again ala CPE/V4) and a few other new things. The PRO is a new from the ground up design using modern components (instead of those based in the early 90s) and among it's many additional features includes CPS, built in methanol control, etc.

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Didn't they say G4 will have CPS offsetting (autotuning)? I'm "REALLY" confused trying to wade through these marketing wars on every corner

Nope... They will have autotuning that adjusts only boost. Timing control/cps offsetting is presumably coming with the new platform. Jb3 platform can't support it due to hardware limitations.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

It's amazing Shiv knows so much about products that have not been released yet.

The G4 features autotuning, CAN, integrated gauges and options using the steering wheel controls and dash, and a new boost control system BMS has designed. In theory it could support isolated control as well (ala CPE/V4) but the new method offers advantages for daily drivers and automatics and is bog free for manuals. Also has progressive methanol inputs (again ala CPE/V4) and a few other new things. The PRO is a new from the ground up design using modern components (instead of those based in the early 90s) and among it's many additional features includes CPS, built in methanol control, etc.

Mike

You just confirmed, again, that g4 doesn't offer timing control.

[Mark313]

You know its funny that Terry always tried to portray Shiv to be the one that is a liar and deceitful to his customers but in all actuality it was always Terry who was a liar and deceitful. Only the smart ones saw right through his tactics or if they had a lease and didn't care. And if they don't have a lease well I feel sorry for all the knock your engine has endured.

[dzenno]

So there's going to be a G4 and then there'll be a PRO board? Why is cps offsetting just not a core feature. As far as I understand it, for a piggyback, the only way of "directly" inducing timing "retard" (didn't say timing "control") is through CPS offsetting. The ability to induce timing "retard" is very important in many aspects.

NOTE: I am not calling it timing "control" as to not spur that discussion again...

[lyndon_h]

Originally Posted by dzenno

So there's going to be a G4 and then there'll be a PRO board? Why is cps offsetting just not a core feature. As far as I understand it, for a piggyback, the only way of "directly" inducing timing "retard" (didn't say timing "control") is through CPS offsetting. The ability to induce timing "retard" is very important in many aspects.

NOTE: I am not calling it timing "control" as to not spur that discussion again...

I'm wondering the same thing. I have no idea why a fundamental feature is subject to product segmentation.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by dzenno

So there's going to be a G4 and then there'll be a PRO board? Why is cps offsetting just not a core feature. As far as I understand it, for a piggyback, the only way of "directly" inducing timing "retard" (didn't say timing "control") is through CPS offsetting. The ability to induce timing "retard" is very important in many aspects.

NOTE: I am not calling it timing "control" as to not spur that discussion again...

While I already know the answer, I'm looking forward to Mike's response. Probably something about the n54 not needing cps offsetting unlike other platforms that can benefit from it. And that it only has benefit in highly modified applications which only apply to 5% of the people. And other nonsense.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by dzenno

So there's going to be a G4 and then there'll be a PRO board? Why is cps offsetting just not a core feature. As far as I understand it, for a piggyback, the only way of "directly" inducing timing "retard" (didn't say timing "control") is through CPS offsetting. The ability to induce timing "retard" is very important in many aspects.

NOTE: I am not calling it timing "control" as to not spur that discussion again...

CPS itself is largely a useless feature. It would not have helped Sevak or any meth/race gas owner as they all disable it. It has not proven to help pump gas numbers or reliability either. Also as I said in an earlier post BMS is playing with some new CAN commands that influence the advance set point so at some point CPS itself might be obsolete as well. But for those that want it they've included it on the PRO board as it was easy to add on. The PRO board will follow the G4, but I don't have a firm ETA for you. Once the PRO board is out you should swing by and pop it into your car and give it a test

Mike

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Trust me, he's been through worse lol

the best (and funniest) times engine builder and tuners have is telling stories about stuff that went soooooo wrong... aw man do you remember.... ???

if you only knew what some of us have blown up in the past

but is all a learning lesson, time tested!!