[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

76,000 since May 2006. No issues. Burns a quart in about 17,000 miles. I average about 45 MPH a tank and 27.6 MPG. 60 miles of hammering the back roads of VA plus 20 miles of stop and go on RT 66/28. 800 miles a week. Best commuter car available IMO.

Whoah! that is a long commute...80miles ? Then again alot of time to enjoy your wheels

I get about 35 MPG all highway averaging about 80-90kph with slow downs from 130kph. I am amazed at the great gas mileage even when I push it.

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain

Being a dealer tech at one point, I took the advantage of free oil and changed the oil in my 335 every 5k miles for the hell of it. The inside of my valve cover is as clean as the day I got it here.

Many a time I have pulled the valvecover off E46s and some E90s to find quite a disturbing crudded mess building up under the cover from the engine having 2 oil changes in 2 years (which now BMW has changed here to 2 years for 1 oil change if you dont drive it that much).

Thats absurd. I think BMW doesnt care what happens to the car after it is outside warranty. Its up to the owner. If that engine takes a shit (which I have seen from time to time) it comes out of that persons pocket. So lets see...10k for a new engine, or 10k warrantied. BMW would rather have the money in their pocket. So the customer dumps the car there and walks off and buys either another car, or leaves disgusted never to buy a BMW ever again.

BMW would still most likely fix the car, then put it up for sale and sell it to someone else and make money.

Changing the oil every 5k maybe a little often......what is your opinion on a safe duration given normal driving conditions?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by KKelly

rebuilt the engine for a head failure still had cross-hatching on the cylinder walls.

but how did the head itself look? was it all gunky?

in any case.. used oil analysis doesn't lie guys, and neither does the gunking that bmw techs see even in E90

bottom line for me (for any car) if i'm the long term owner used oil analysis dictates my oil change interval (its different for each climate, oil and usage pattern)

and for a leased car, manufacturer's recommended intervals and done. /end thread

[Samuel L Jackson]

I plan on changing my oil in between the service intervals after reading this thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=break

The dealer wanted $180 for one. Screw that, I'm going to an independent shop for those.

[Houman21]

I just ordered the kit from Tischer, I'll be changing the oil next week at just about 6k

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

76,000 since May 2006. No issues. Burns a quart in about 17,000 miles. I average about 45 MPH a tank and 27.6 MPG. 60 miles of hammering the back roads of VA plus 20 miles of stop and go on RT 66/28. 800 miles a week. Best commuter car available IMO.

thanks

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Socom

There are thousands of E46's on the road and you don't hear stories of these engines going belly up. It's just not happening.

Sure we do. M5x VANOS control unit failures are 100% preventable with more frequent engine oil changes. 7.5K oil change intervals are cheap insurance against a $2K VANOS replacement at 75K miles.

Roundel has often cited BMW statements that "Lifetime Fill" fluids are based on an expected service life of 100K miles. Since I plan to still have my car and would prefer not to be in the market for a new diff or tranny at that point, fluid changes are cheap insurance. If you're leasing or replacing your car every two years it doesn't matter a bit.

[Bimmer Al]

Originally Posted by tintivilus

Sure we do. M5x VANOS control unit failures are 100% preventable with more frequent engine oil changes. 7.5K oil change intervals are cheap insurance against a $2K VANOS replacement at 75K miles.

Roundel has often cited BMW statements that "Lifetime Fill" fluids are based on an expected service life of 100K miles. Since I plan to still have my car and would prefer not to be in the market for a new diff or tranny at that point, fluid changes are cheap insurance. If you're leasing or replacing your car every two years it doesn't matter a bit.

Interesting, where can I find that lifetime = 100k miles from BMW?

[Richwm]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Al

Interesting people are so concerned about oil changes when most lease. Would be curoius to know what % of people on this site actually own their cars and furthermore how many would keep them for more the 5-6 years or 100,000+kms

I own and am over 100k miles changed my oil every 5k-7.5k and did the same on my E46 that has 155k miles.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Al

Interesting, where can I find that lifetime = 100k miles from BMW?

IIRC it's in the manual. For example the A/T (like that of other manufacturers) has lifetime fill and has 100k mile service interval. The max warranty period is 100k miles. The coolant might be lifetime but I'm not sure.

[Tegs4tugs]

Originally Posted by davig

Not if you plan to keep the car after the warranty expires. All BMW cares about is getting these cars past warranty at the lowest possible cost. The "free maintenance" is essentially a marketing gimmick.

+1
This will not cause immediate damages to your engine but a few years down the road especially after warranty expires you will have problems and at that point its your problem/expense or you go back to BMW and pay them for any repairs needed, once again they win, so coming from someone who used to work at a lube shop theres no way the engine oil can be of any use upto 15,000 miles, i still do my own at anywhere between 3k-5k, have you ever seen synthetic oil from a BMW after 5k, if you did you would understand.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by Tegs4tugs

+1
This will not cause immediate damages to your engine but a few years down the road especially after warranty expires you will have problems and at that point its your problem/expense or you go back to BMW and pay them for any repairs needed, once again they win, so coming from someone who used to work at a lube shop theres no way the engine oil can be of any use upto 15,000 miles, i still do my own at anywhere between 3k-5k, have you ever seen synthetic oil from a BMW after 5k, if you did you would understand.

So explain to us why BMW has had extended oil changes between 10,000 and 15,000 miles since the mid 1980's. BMW only recently has offered the marketing gimmic of free maintenance (I agree it's a gimmic because it is just built into the price of the car) but has had long intervals for engine oil changes. Also, BMW does quite an extensive business suppling parts for it's cars that are 10 to 20 years old. Why would it risk that income to have engines blow up at 100,000 miles? Not many people are going to buy a 7 year old BMW with a blown engine to repair it. Those cars would most likely get recycled for parts; a business that BMW would not profit from.

And if you've ever seen oil that comes out a diesel engine it looks way worse than oil from a BMW engine at 5,000 miles.

[Eazy-e]

Following the 15k interval will kill your BMW

http://sandiegobmw.wordpress.com/200...ling-your-bmw/

[Jamese93]

All interesting comments. Strangely enough I changed the oil on my 2008 325i at 3,000 miles after running in and it was stating that a service would have been required at the equivalent of 15,000 miles. With the new oil in it has and still does read that it will need changing at the equivalent of 15,000 miles.

Perhaps it's as the oil that came out was in perfect order, or perhaps the oil quality makes little difference to the CBS - it's based more on driving style, revs, mpg etc. as everyone above had said. Good for you guys in the states having free service thrown in - it's not here in the UK and even an oil change from a dealer costs £200+. Ouch.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Eazy-e

Following the 15k interval will kill your BMW

http://sandiegobmw.wordpress.com/200...ling-your-bmw/

Ahhh..I love it when someone brings up this photo. This is one photo of about four IIRC that show a sludged up BMW engine.

Here's the back story on this engine: The car (E39 IIRC) was in SoCal and was driven short distances almost daily. The car either didn't have it's oil changed EVER or the owner used dino oil (not synthetic). In any case this engine was NOT mantainted as required by BMW.

The reality about BMW service intervals is that you do not have vast numbers of engine failures on E46/E39 models which are already ~10 yrs old. The fact remains that the majority of owners get rid of their cars prior to
100k miles because there's something else other than the engine which needs repair and they just don't want to pay for it. Those "other" items are transamission, coolant system, suspension components, numerous electrical gremlins, intrior trim pireces.

Now the jury is out on the 335i because those engines run hotter so it puts more stress on the oil, but as far as NA engines go, if you want to change your oil early or use other "better" oil go ahead, but please be honest and admit that you're doing it because you just like to work on your car and not for some preceived benefit you hope to reap 8 yrs down the road.

[adelphi_sky]

I'm at 6,000 miles and was contemplating getting my oil changed before driving to Tampa from DC. My thought on BMW's reasons for extending the oil change interval is that their engine building technology has improved over the years. I've read articles where they are using lighter parts, magnesium, aluminum, etc. These parts weren't around 10-15 years ago. Also, I doubt BMW changed the intervals to save money. Guess what, they could've easily said, 4 years free maintenance and by the way, oil changes aren't covered. People would STILL buy their cars. Don't know too many people who would drop buying a BMW because they had to pay for their own oil changes. That wasn't happening before the free maintenance offers, it sure isn't happening now.

Also, I agree that there are technologies built into today's cars that help to maintain perfect running conditions. I agree that BMW does NOT want to be know for their engines grinding to a halt in 7 years because they wanted to save a little cash on oil changes. You're talking about loosing generation of loyal customers if BMWs were known to crap out before 100k based on financial motives of BMW. Get this, these are BMWs people pay a good deal of money for reliability and perfection. BMW knows this. It's their heritage. Would they piss it all away on oil change intervals? Not likely. Just looking at it from pure business sense.

Read consumer reports. At least for the 3-series, the car is near the top for reliability. That says something about the car. Truth be told, there are just as many people who are clueless about auto care as there are people who work on their own engines. And they will follow the multicolored lights and beeps when told to and get their oil changed at the recommended intervals.

I also agree that those opposed to lengthy intervals have yet to come up with statistics on which cars had engines fail because customers followed BMW's recommended oil changes as opposed to those that changed their oil more often. What were teh driving conditions? What geographical location? Did they stop by the jiffy lube and had no indication of what oil to use and put dino oil in instead of synthetic? What about their air filter? Did they change that often or did that contribute? What version is their engine? What factory was it made in? Was the factory modern, what were the engine components made of?

There's a lot that goes into this than mere speculation and tradition. BMW is competing with Lexus, MB, Jaguar, etc. Do you really think they would piss their #1 ranking away to save a few bucks? I don't.

[Delta0311]

I could care less what the BMW dealer says. Since the oil changes are free, BMW is saving a ton of $$ by telling you to do it every 15k miles. I do it myself every 5k and it costs me about $70 for the oil fiter and BMW oil. Honestly, it is the best $70 I could ever spend on my car. Don't get cheap with the oil changes or you'll be paying for it in the long run.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

You missed my point. I do change my oil at the BMW scheduled intervals as dictated by the service indicator. The '89 E30 service indicator, based on my driving behavior called for oil changes usually around 12,000 miles (which is a lot longer than most people on this forum think is prudent - 7,500 miles). My Wife’s Z3 (4 cylinder) usually goes about 10,000 - 12,000 miles between changes. The E90 calls for oil changes between 17,000 miles and 18,000 miles. I drive the E90 800 miles a week.

My point is I have a 20 year record of following the engine oil service intervals, that every new-comer to BMW thinks is way excessive, with not one engine failure. Other than the pre-paid service for the Z3 and E90, I've personally done all the maintenance on each car. I've owned all three cars since new (e.g. I know the maintenance history since day 1). Most Posters on this Forum call BS on the extended oil change interval, and cite oil analysis and personal opinion that going 18,000 miles between changes is bad and that BMW just does it so they can get out of one $50 oil change under the "free" maintenance program. Most Posters think the engine is going to drop out of the car at 100,000 miles if they don’t double up on oil changes. I don’t think it is true because I have three real cars that show otherwise. All three engines are the original factory built engines installed in the car during production and have not been rebuilt. None use oil at other than a normal rate. The E90 barely uses a quart in 17,000 miles (I measure the oil quantity at every change).

No one has presented any real data that shows BMW engines fail post-warranty due to the extended oil change interval.

Thank you for posting real statistics. You've provided three different cars with three different engines using the recommended oil change intervals and proved that there was no negative engine wear. I have yet to hear someone say, " I've had three different BMW's with three different engines and changed the oil at the recommended levels and had to take at least ONE to the shop for a blown engine." I haven't heard that yet after doing an extensive google search on the subject. The most I've read is that people do it to "feel" better. Or to have "peace of mind." We haven't really seen how the new engines perform as of yet after the warranties are over. For the 2006s at least, that's a year away.

[Eazy-e]

Originally Posted by Socom

Ahhh..I love it when someone brings up this photo. This is one photo of about four IIRC that show a sludged up BMW engine.

Here's the back story on this engine: The car (E39 IIRC) was in SoCal and was driven short distances almost daily. The car either didn't have it's oil changed EVER or the owner used dino oil (not synthetic). In any case this engine was NOT mantainted as required by BMW.

The reality about BMW service intervals is that you do not have vast numbers of engine failures on E46/E39 models which are already ~10 yrs old. The fact remains that the majority of owners get rid of their cars prior to
100k miles because there's something else other than the engine which needs repair and they just don't want to pay for it. Those "other" items are transamission, coolant system, suspension components, numerous electrical gremlins, intrior trim pireces.

Now the jury is out on the 335i because those engines run hotter so it puts more stress on the oil, but as far as NA engines go, if you want to change your oil early or use other "better" oil go ahead, but please be honest and admit that you're doing it because you just like to work on your car and not for some preceived benefit you hope to reap 8 yrs down the road.

What the hell are you talking about? The guy said that they got their oil changed at a BMW dealership every 15k miles. Why would the dealership use the wrong oil?

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I could care less what the BMW dealer says. Since the oil changes are free, BMW is saving a ton of $$ by telling you to do it every 15k miles. I do it myself every 5k and it costs me about $70 for the oil fiter and BMW oil. Honestly, it is the best $70 I could ever spend on my car. Don't get cheap with the oil changes or you'll be paying for it in the long run.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Eazy-e

What the hell are you talking about? The guy said that they got their oil changed at a BMW dealership every 15k miles. Why would the dealership use the wrong oil?

What I'm saying is that the guy is a liar. He's running an Indy BMW repair shop and is selling oil changes.

[Eazy-e]

Originally Posted by Socom

What I'm saying is that the guy is a liar. He's running an Indy BMW repair shop and is selling oil changes.

Chris is not a liar. He has been professionally working on BMWs for 11 years. He is highly respected for all of the work he does. All of his work is top notch and his prices are fair(80 dollars for oil change) I will take his advice over some random dude on forums any day.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Thank you for posting real statistics. You've provided three different cars with three different engines using the recommended oil change intervals and proved that there was no negative engine wear. I have yet to hear someone say, " I've had three different BMW's with three different engines and changed the oil at the recommended levels and had to take at least ONE to the shop for a blown engine." I haven't heard that yet after doing an extensive google search on the subject. The most I've read is that people do it to "feel" better. Or to have "peace of mind." We haven't really seen how the new engines perform as of yet after the warranties are over. For the 2006s at least, that's a year away.

Well I'm now at 82,900. The A/C compressor just failed last week. Motor is as strong as the day I bought it. I should be at 100K by the end of the year. When I change the plugs, maybe I'll pull the valve cover and take some pictures.