[Chowbow]

Yeah I hardly track the car... Definitely not enough to dial in aggressive negative camber. I rack up 3000 miles per month commuting so this will remain 99.9% street car with the slight chance it will hit the track.

[j28s]

S4to335 - how much did you lower it with the PSS9? I would think lowering it an inch over OEM you could squeeze out another half degree of negative camber. Could be wrong though. Do you know what your tow is (front and rear)? Have you corner weighted your car yet?

[S4to335]

j28s...I know what you mean..when I lowered my old Audi S4s...the lower you went.the higher the negative camber. For the 335, I was actually too low in the front..and came up a bit. As you know..you dont want to be at the end of the envelope when setting up your perches for coilovers..they really run optimally in the mid part of their range. I really need to get a real alignment..the shop I went to did it without a hunter alignment rack...I know a bit of total tow out...maybe 1/16th or so..can help turn in. I really have not played with this car at all with alignment...this is overdue. If I end up tracking a lot..I think I will do some corner weighting...my local shop has some intercomp scales...and I think they would let me help and keep the costs down. I have borrowed scales before and corner weighted cars ...so I know how much fun THAT is. I was thinking to get the diagonals equal, with the comparable weight of my fat ass in the driver seat. I think the rear has got zero tow....

[2e9x's]

Originally Posted by S4to335

You cant adjust camber on these cars in front without installing adjustable camber plates..

Are you positive about that? Take a look at the shock towers. Near the outside edge of the tower, but near the bolts, you will see a small silver thing that looks like a ball bearing. On other BMW's that is used to keep camber constant. However, on other BMW's you can punch that out fairly easily, loosen the mounting bolts and then slide the strut assembly a bit to adjust camber.

Does anybody have a subscription to TIS to verify this?

[Chowbow]

Originally Posted by White05X3

Are you positive about that? Take a look at the shock towers. Near the outside edge of the tower, but near the bolts, you will see a small silver thing that looks like a ball bearing. On other BMW's that is used to keep camber constant. However, on other BMW's you can punch that out fairly easily, loosen the mounting bolts and then slide the strut assembly a bit to adjust camber.

Does anybody have a subscription to TIS to verify this?

That little knubby thing is on the top hat of the shock tower and is there so that when you install the assembly back into the car you'll get it in the right orientation. I don't recall it looking like it'd be easy to punch out, but if you removed the assembly you can definitely cut / grind it off and you'll have some room to play with the shock tower mounts to get a bit more camber off of it.

[leftcoastman]

Yup I've been told by my BMW mechanic you can eke 1/2 degree out by drilling that piece out.

[2e9x's]

I discovered this with my X3 when I was setting it up for auto-x (yeah...I know...I know...). I took it to West Coast Alignment in So Cal and had him punch that thing out (based on instructions from BMW TIS). The strut top (or the tower, I don't remember which ) was slotted and removing this nub allowed a tiny bit of negative camber. Not much mind you, but some.

Is it the same on the e9x?

[j28s]

S4to335 - Looks like you are on the right track on getting it figured out. As you mentioned a total of 1/16" tow out (1/8" total tow out is about as much as I would do) and it does help turn in ALOT. Not sure of the rear specs, but I've seen some cars that were handling weird and they got the back to zero tow, and it made a big difference. At the track you'll see guys using the "string" method to check the tow...I've done it...I have the tendency to pass on the inside up and over the FIA curbing which has the tendency to obviously knock out the alignment. I'm picking up a set of PSS9 (I believe) and will be at the track in a couple weeks to get it dialed in. I'll let you know what I work out. I'm also going to have the shocks dyno'd and will probably get them to give me the spring rates for the springs. Normally I would wait for the Koni Yellows, but the last I spoke to Lee he said it would be mid-spring before they are ready (note: this is for the sport package and Lee is "the man" at Koni).

[elbert]

Originally Posted by S4to335

Decent track performance would probably want more than negative 2 in camber up front.

Yes on a MacPherson strut front suspension you need at the very least that, -3 deg would be even better.

Trying to knock out the pin to get to 1 deg or so of camber is kinda pointless.

Originally Posted by j28s

Normally I would wait for the Koni Yellows, but the last I spoke to Lee he said it would be mid-spring before they are ready (note: this is for the sport package and Lee is "the man" at Koni).

TC Kline is listing Koni D/A shocks for e90, not sure about availability though

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by j28s

S4to335 - Looks like you are on the right track on getting it figured out. As you mentioned a total of 1/16" tow out (1/8" total tow out is about as much as I would do) and it does help turn in ALOT. Not sure of the rear specs, but I've seen some cars that were handling weird and they got the back to zero tow, and it made a big difference. At the track you'll see guys using the "string" method to check the tow...I've done it...I have the tendency to pass on the inside up and over the FIA curbing which has the tendency to obviously knock out the alignment. I'm picking up a set of PSS9 (I believe) and will be at the track in a couple weeks to get it dialed in. I'll let you know what I work out. I'm also going to have the shocks dyno'd and will probably get them to give me the spring rates for the springs. Normally I would wait for the Koni Yellows, but the last I spoke to Lee he said it would be mid-spring before they are ready (note: this is for the sport package and Lee is "the man" at Koni).

Yeah...I talked to Lee @ Koni before..he is da man there. I hit berms a lot myself...do you think that really jars things out of alignment though? I have done the string method on occasion with a friend of mine....and that appears to be the method of us with minimal track dollars to spend.

Let me know those springs rates if you check them before install..that is very good information to know.

[j28s]

S4to335 - I think hitting the berms depends on shocks and springs. On my personal race car I have 1100 lbs spring rates in front and 1300 lbs spring rates in the rear with Koni shocks (race shocks). I think with the high spring rates and the speed I'm going...it does jar it bad enough to knock it out of alighment. One race we were on the front straight, WOT in 5th, I was trying to take 1st and passed on the inside (left hander). Just before the berm there was a type of pot hole (dirt). My front left hit that, then the berm, the corner works said the left side of the car was about 2' off the ground. The guy I overtook told me after the race, that he said to himself, if he wants it that bad...I'm not getting in way. The car pulled hard left for the rest of the race (that was the last lap). I had -5 degrees camber (supposed to be -2.5 degrees), and 1" tow out (supposed to be 1/16") on the front left. Moral to the story, I guess it really depends on (A) how hard you hit the berm, (B) how soft the shock/spring is, (C) speed traveling when you hit it. I can bump the berms throughout a weekend and the alignment is the same one weekend, the next weekend bump the berms with the about the same velocity and the alignment is out. The string method works and it's pretty darn to what you get on a 4 wheel computer alignment machine. Just I spoke to a friend of mine that works with the Bilstein Motorsports Division and they are 400 lbs front, and 630 lbs rear. Note this is for both the PSS9 and B-16 for the e90. - I was pretty far off my original thought about the rear being softer.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by j28s

S4to335 - I think hitting the berms depends on shocks and springs. On my personal race car I have 1100 lbs spring rates in front and 1300 lbs spring rates in the rear with Koni shocks (race shocks). I think with the high spring rates and the speed I'm going...it does jar it bad enough to knock it out of alighment. One race we were on the front straight, WOT in 5th, I was trying to take 1st and passed on the inside (left hander). Just before the berm there was a type of pot hole (dirt). My front left hit that, then the berm, the corner works said the left side of the car was about 2' off the ground. The guy I overtook told me after the race, that he said to himself, if he wants it that bad...I'm not getting in way. The car pulled hard left for the rest of the race (that was the last lap). I had -5 degrees camber (supposed to be -2.5 degrees), and 1" tow out (supposed to be 1/16") on the front left. Moral to the story, I guess it really depends on (A) how hard you hit the berm, (B) how soft the shock/spring is, (C) speed traveling when you hit it. I can bump the berms throughout a weekend and the alignment is the same one weekend, the next weekend bump the berms with the about the same velocity and the alignment is out. The string method works and it's pretty darn to what you get on a 4 wheel computer alignment machine. Just I spoke to a friend of mine that works with the Bilstein Motorsports Division and they are 400 lbs front, and 630 lbs rear. Note this is for both the PSS9 and B-16 for the e90. - I was pretty far off my original thought about the rear being softer.

Wow..that spring rate is not what I thought it might be...thanks for the info. Now I have a basis of which to experiment with.

My friends use to campaign this car...and they had 1300 lb rear springs...so know what THAT feels like. This is a garage hibernator now..



More info about this car is here:
http://www.imolaracing.com/thecar.htm

[j28s]

elbert - All I know is when I spoke to Koni a couple weeks ago (my contact there in the motorsports division). He said for the e90/e92 they have the FSD for the sport package (normal sport packaged height) completed. But NOT the sports (aka yellows). They felt that they needed to tweak the valving a bit more to get the right combination that they wanted for the sports (yellows) on the car. They thought the sports need more compression damping to keep the car, especially the rear, off the bump rubbers. (Note: since the FSD dampers carry more compression damping than the Sport, it didn't have this issue). The e90 (325/330, 328) was great with the Koni sports, but the sport package and engine weight were enough of a change they felt to not make an official recommendation for the 335i.

I will say one last thing, if you have a 335i and looking to get the Koni Sports. Call Koni first and ask them. Just my $.02 worth.

[Chowbow]

Hey look, it's Corey and Shannon.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

Hey look, it's Corey and Shannon.

No..Corey and Sharon..and they are married now...and with two kids..hence no more going to Nationals to Autocross or ProSolo.

[j28s]

Chowbow - I see you are in Dublin. Do you know Taz Harvey?

[Chowbow]

Originally Posted by S4to335

No..Corey and Sharon..and they are married now...and with two kids..hence no more going to Nationals to Autocross or ProSolo.

I thought Shannon sounded kinda "off"! Dang, things have changed since the last time I was in contact with them... I soundly remember going to the autocrosses with them and them absolutely annihilating me.

[Chowbow]

Originally Posted by j28s

Chowbow - I see you are in Dublin. Do you know Taz Harvey?

Nope, who's that? Should I know him? And I mean Dublin as in the East Bay, California... Not Ireland.

[S4to335]

Taz Harvey raced up here..and his folks own a Honda car dealership (Toyota?)...he drives pretty crazy from what I have witnessed. Havent seen him around lately..but I havent been looking for him either.

[j28s]

I thought he and his dad had a couple Honda dealerships and thought he said he lived in Dublin, CA. Great guy and a good racer. He raced in the SCCA Pro Racing Speedvision World Challenge (before it changed to the Speed World Challenge). I'm on the East Coast and met him and raced with him a few times. Haven't talked to him in about 5 years. How about Roger Foo?

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by j28s

I thought he and his dad had a couple Honda dealerships and thought he said he lived in Dublin, CA. Great guy and a good racer. He raced in the SCCA Pro Racing Speedvision World Challenge (before it changed to the Speed World Challenge). I'm on the East Coast and met him and raced with him a few times. Haven't talked to him in about 5 years. How about Roger Foo?

Foo is great...I was at Laguna one time when he was racing in touring car..and he was sicker than a dog over at the porta-potties...throwing up like you wouldnt believe. I think that is the time he won the touring car race..and I think it was his birthday too. My friend had co-driven with Foo for some enduro..forget which one. Foo is a very liked entity here in NorCal. I dont know him very well..but good enough to wish him a good race..and to give him props for his on track performances.

[Chowbow]

Ah ok... I'm very much a casual track person so I don't get to see the big dogs run too much. I'm always in the easy class with no timing gear or just out at the autocross running out of class so I don't affect points standings. So I'm not competitive and am just in it for the fun so I don't get to meet all the hardcore racing guys and get as good as they are.