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      02-28-2020, 12:40 AM   #1
Willy Sea
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What to Do N52 3.0si E86

First time poster so please be gentle.........

Just because we can, thinking of MILV's and a remap on our N52B30 coupe.
Looking to broaden the torque curve, and keep the power on closer to the red line, and perhaps push it out to 7250.

Any suggestions on the way forward with this, and more importantly anyone done this with dyno data to support?

High mileage car(well it is for us 120000) but in stunning order 6 speed manual. Have an induction scoop, and that's it really.

Love the N52.............what an engine

Thanks for reading, all comments eagerly anticipated.
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      02-28-2020, 03:39 AM   #2
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Because you said Torque... the best bang for the buck mod in a manual car is a 3.73 diff swap from an automatic. I’ve done this a few times and paid about $200 delivered each time. Look on eBay for diffs.

As far as the engine mods go there are quite a few guys who have done the mods you mentioned. Typically guys start with a 3 stage manifold conversion which will give you more torque than MILV’s. I would stack the mods together (MILV’s and 3 Stage) and then buy a tune for everything (Redline, MILV’s, and 3 Stage) from Bob at StageFP.

I’ve run all the combos we discussed and gone through an evolution of mods on my car. There is no downside to them and I’ve been running the MILV’s, 7500rpms redline, 3.91 rear diff, a manifold swap with a tune from Bob for a few years and I’m very happy with the cars performance. I don’t have a dyno but I have this video...

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      02-28-2020, 07:07 AM   #3
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Awesome.
Very impressive, the high revs, the sound!
I can see why you're happy with it.
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      02-28-2020, 10:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Because you said Torque... the best bang for the buck mod in a manual car is a 3.73 diff swap from an automatic. I’ve done this a few times and paid about $200 delivered each time. Look on eBay for diffs.

As far as the engine mods go there are quite a few guys who have done the mods you mentioned. Typically guys start with a 3 stage manifold conversion which will give you more torque than MILV’s. I would stack the mods together (MILV’s and 3 Stage) and then buy a tune for everything (Redline, MILV’s, and 3 Stage) from Bob at StageFP.

I’ve run all the combos we discussed and gone through an evolution of mods on my car. There is no downside to them and I’ve been running the MILV’s, 7500rpms redline, 3.91 rear diff, a manifold swap with a tune from Bob for a few years and I’m very happy with the cars performance. I don’t have a dyno but I have this video...

God that thing pulls so clean and nice. Listen to BiginBoca, his build is beautiful and a perfect example of what to do with the non-turbo E9x series.
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      02-28-2020, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Because you said Torque... the best bang for the buck mod in a manual car is a 3.73 diff swap from an automatic. I’ve done this a few times and paid about $200 delivered each time. Look on eBay for diffs.

As far as the engine mods go there are quite a few guys who have done the mods you mentioned. Typically guys start with a 3 stage manifold conversion which will give you more torque than MILV’s. I would stack the mods together (MILV’s and 3 Stage) and then buy a tune for everything (Redline, MILV’s, and 3 Stage) from Bob at StageFP.

I’ve run all the combos we discussed and gone through an evolution of mods on my car. There is no downside to them and I’ve been running the MILV’s, 7500rpms redline, 3.91 rear diff, a manifold swap with a tune from Bob for a few years and I’m very happy with the cars performance. I don’t have a dyno but I have this video...
I have similar set up as Biginboca. This post is spot on for everyone to follow.
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      02-28-2020, 12:20 PM   #6
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I think the Z4 comes with 3 stage intake manifold
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      02-28-2020, 12:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Because you said Torque... the best bang for the buck mod in a manual car is a 3.73 diff swap from an automatic. I’ve done this a few times and paid about $200 delivered each time. Look on eBay for diffs.

As far as the engine mods go there are quite a few guys who have done the mods you mentioned. Typically guys start with a 3 stage manifold conversion which will give you more torque than MILV’s. I would stack the mods together (MILV’s and 3 Stage) and then buy a tune for everything (Redline, MILV’s, and 3 Stage) from Bob at StageFP.

I’ve run all the combos we discussed and gone through an evolution of mods on my car. There is no downside to them and I’ve been running the MILV’s, 7500rpms redline, 3.91 rear diff, a manifold swap with a tune from Bob for a few years and I’m very happy with the cars performance. I don’t have a dyno but I have this video...

Interesting. Is this your video? To me looks like 3.91 final drive ratio is a little bit too short for this application. I imagine it works well in the city - probably not so much on the highway. I think 3.73 should be about perfect.

But I would never swap out my factory diff unless I plan to replace it with an LSD. That's probably the best mod you can do to a BMW. The factory open diff's are pretty garbage.
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      02-28-2020, 01:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Interesting. Is this your video? To me looks like 3.91 final drive ratio is a little bit too short for this application. I imagine it works well in the city - probably not so much on the highway. I think 3.73 should be about perfect.

But I would never swap out my factory diff unless I plan to replace it with an LSD. That's probably the best mod you can do to a BMW. The factory open diff's are pretty garbage.
I mean the price difference is pretty huge between the two options you mentioned. The benefits are felt right away with the different gearing, the benefits of the LSD are much more subtle. Especially since we're not making huge torque numbers. I've tracked my car plenty and with the right tires you really need to be a monkey on the throttle inputs to get to a point you need the benefits of the LSD.
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      02-28-2020, 01:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonwilli View Post
I think the Z4 comes with 3 stage intake manifold
Thank you jonwilli, I'm sure you are correct. 265PS@6600, 315NM@2750. Been thinking about a motorsport or quaife diff head too. Current ratio (stock) is 3.46 and could go to 3.64 quite easily.

We are in New Zealand, and use the car for touring, no track work. The 6 speed manual couple with the ever willing lightweight engine make for a very enjoyable drive
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      02-28-2020, 01:38 PM   #10
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MILVS + Tune Id say is your next step. Diff ratio helps depending on your car use(highway commuting or just weekend fun)

Beyond that a header or N53 (EX)manifolds+ secondary delete is about the limit of bolt ons. An intake/exhaust may add a couple more.
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      02-28-2020, 03:09 PM   #11
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+1 on the differential swap. Running a 3.91 like Biginboca. It's fun
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      02-28-2020, 04:13 PM   #12
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red.

The E86 were all SI versions with the 3IM, I good tune will liven that up nicely. Forget about making power above 7,000 RPMs without hardware changes.e

I'd look at your suspension before going too far with the engine. The car is getting old and most of the shocks, bushings will be worn out by now. I'd get that area of the car updated before spending too much on the engine. With minimal effort the E86 can be really sweat handling machine again.

Also look at the brakes, make sure they are not "Advance Auto" specials.

My two cents.
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      02-28-2020, 05:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volasko View Post
I mean the price difference is pretty huge between the two options you mentioned. The benefits are felt right away with the different gearing, the benefits of the LSD are much more subtle. Especially since we're not making huge torque numbers. I've tracked my car plenty and with the right tires you really need to be a monkey on the throttle inputs to get to a point you need the benefits of the LSD.
Well you are right about that, but after driving even FWD Nissan's equipped with an LSD i'm more than convinced it is essential especially for a RWD chassis with such a bad open diff.. For anything but normal driving its holding you back, especially in poor road surface conditions. You should see the way this 25 year old 3000LB Nissan put down power (3L V6) to the front (completely bald) all season tires in pouring rain. (VLSD)
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      02-28-2020, 10:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
red.

The E86 were all SI versions with the 3IM, I good tune will liven that up nicely. Forget about making power above 7,000 RPMs without hardware changes.e

I'd look at your suspension before going too far with the engine. The car is getting old and most of the shocks, bushings will be worn out by now. I'd get that area of the car updated before spending too much on the engine. With minimal effort the E86 can be really sweat handling machine again.

Also look at the brakes, make sure they are not "Advance Auto" specials.

My two cents.
Its a very tidy car and wanting for nothing in the suspension department (Motorsport suspension) New CSL drilled rotors front and drilled rear ordered up, and the 335i front caliper conversion happening too.
Running on Apex EC7's at the mo, and a set of Arc8's waiting in the wings. Thinking about the bmw motorsport LSD or a Quaife perhaps, just a little hard to justify.
May change the ratio perhaps.The car is fitted with DSC.

Guess I would want to see empirical evidence of any gains with MILV's fitted and a remap before doing this work.

Thanks for the responses so far.
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      02-29-2020, 01:29 AM   #15
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I have a Quaife on my tuned 130i and it is a lot of fun. It means you can drive the car all year with traction off and get controllable slip out of bends if you boot it and the car can actually put all the power down to the road accelerating.

On my 135i I will probably try a Wavetrac for a change. On the 135i the diffs are almost a third more to the N52 diffs because of the welded design.
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      02-29-2020, 01:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy Sea View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjahl View Post
red.

The E86 were all SI versions with the 3IM, I good tune will liven that up nicely. Forget about making power above 7,000 RPMs without hardware changes.e

I'd look at your suspension before going too far with the engine. The car is getting old and most of the shocks, bushings will be worn out by now. I'd get that area of the car updated before spending too much on the engine. With minimal effort the E86 can be really sweat handling machine again.

Also look at the brakes, make sure they are not "Advance Auto" specials.

My two cents.
Its a very tidy car and wanting for nothing in the suspension department (Motorsport suspension) New CSL drilled rotors front and drilled rear ordered up, and the 335i front caliper conversion happening too.
Running on Apex EC7's at the mo, and a set of Arc8's waiting in the wings. Thinking about the bmw motorsport LSD or a Quaife perhaps, just a little hard to justify.
May change the ratio perhaps.The car is fitted with DSC.

Guess I would want to see empirical evidence of any gains with MILV's fitted and a remap before doing this work.

Thanks for the responses so far.
I'm sure the MILVs thread has a dyno graph for before and after... I can't remember.
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      02-29-2020, 03:12 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moisture View Post
Well you are right about that, but after driving even FWD Nissan's equipped with an LSD i'm more than convinced it is essential especially for a RWD chassis with such a bad open diff.. For anything but normal driving its holding you back, especially in poor road surface conditions. You should see the way this 25 year old 3000LB Nissan put down power (3L V6) to the front (completely bald) all season tires in pouring rain. (VLSD)
A 'bad' open diff? What makes them worse than any other open diff?

I fully understand the benefits of an LSD, but saying that the OP should fit one on his RWD BMW because a FWD Nissan with crap tyres benefits a lot from it is pretty daft. The reality is that they're very expensive, and for the OPs touring application the benefits would be minimal most of the time... unless he's running bald all-seasons in the wet.
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      02-29-2020, 03:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tambohamilton View Post
A 'bad' open diff? What makes them worse than any other open diff?

I fully understand the benefits of an LSD, but saying that the OP should fit one on his RWD BMW because a FWD Nissan with crap tyres benefits a lot from it is pretty daft. The reality is that they're very expensive, and for the OPs touring application the benefits would be minimal most of the time... unless he's running bald all-seasons in the wet.
I'm not telling OP to buy an LSD. I was simply stating that if you are going to replace your differential I wouldn't put another open diff in there.

The comparison with the Nissan should give you a pretty good idea of how capable a RWD BMW would be with an LSD.. regardless of which tires you're using.

Different topic for a different day I guess..
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      02-29-2020, 04:35 PM   #19
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The problem is not at the diff, itÂ’s about the transmission. The gear ratios are utilized for European highway driving where the 3-4-5-6 gears are very close, and the overdrive gear (6th) are so high because this car is not designed to drive slow, and youÂ’ll need at least some power around 160-200km/h. I realized this is a very reasonable setup after I bring the car above 200+ for a few times because it helps you to maintain near the redline at high speed. When I drove it at track is sucks, because what is the last time I shifted to 5th gear on track? Never.
Not complaining about the design as this is not a track oriented car, but since you canÂ’t do anything with the gear ratio (within reasonable cost), changing the final drive gear will not solve the uneven rpm drop.
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      03-01-2020, 12:27 PM   #20
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My previous e86 3.0si had Supersprint headers, AA tune, 3.73 lsd, TCK D/A, 335i front calipers and 255 NT01... The car was an absolute blast and it had no problem keeping up with higher hp cars on track. MILV’s would’ve been a great addition but I ended up selling the car before getting around to it.
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      03-01-2020, 04:09 PM   #21
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Are there gains to be bad with milvs without a tune? Bob would update mine for free since I have his most current tune from stage. I was just wondering.
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      03-01-2020, 05:15 PM   #22
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Are there gains to be bad with milvs without a tune? Bob would update mine for free since I have his most current tune from stage. I was just wondering.
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