[NM_BMW]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Uncle Shiv

[Septro]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I look forward to your input once all the testing is complete and the results are posted. I'll even take opportunity to summaries it, a la cliff notes, for those like yourself who aren't technically savvy.

Uncle Shiv

Aww.. can't resist the backhanded compliment? I actually look forward to your pure technical responses, but just like I don't tell you how to program the Procede, don't pretend you can tell me how to secure multi-billion dollar financial systems where the profits from your company most likely may be residing in. Sucks to not be technical aye? Back to our regularly schedule programming..

[Septro]

Oh and Uncle Shiv was actually funny..

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Septro

Aww.. can't resist the backhanded compliment? I actually look forward to your pure technical responses, but just like I don't tell you how to program the Procede, don't pretend you can tell me how to secure multi-billion dollar financial systems where the profits from your company most likely may be residing in. Sucks to not be technical aye? Back to our regularly schedule programming..

Sensitive much?

By "technically savvy", i was referring to the subject at hand. Not banking technology. Sorry I didn't make it clear.

[DEL451]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I look forward to your input once all the testing is complete and the results are posted. I'll even take opportunity to summaries it, a la cliff notes, for those like yourself who aren't technically savvy.

Uncle Shiv

ROFLMAO! Thanks Uncle Shiv.

I've seriously enjoyed reading this thread and watching all the personalities unfold. Cheers to you Scalbert for doing all this and getting facts on the table for folks to debate and tool on each other.

And Shiv keep on improving what you got there. I'm glad that I opted for Procede from the get go. It's been a lot of fun driving with it and I appreciate all the improvements you've been continually coming out with. Look forward to next iterations and hope that you all get something soon out for the new 4.4 turbo. I expect that will be on my list with the next gen 5 series.

[Septro]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Sensitive much?

By "technically savvy", i was referring to the subject at hand. Not banking technology. Sorry I didn't make it clear.

Apology accepted Uncle Shiv. Now teach me some Procede damit so I can learn.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Septro

Apology accepted Uncle Shiv. Now teach me some Procede damit so I can learn.

Looks like the smack down here is over. Just for fun, why not give it a go on the other board?

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by astris

To have any knowledge in 2007 he would have had to start pumping Shiv for info in 2006. lol.

Believe me....he did. It never seemed to stop. I remember when Terry first started doing this...he came into every procede thread asking all kinds of questions. It was actually quit civil at first. After awhile Terry became more and more agressive, and started to lash out at shiv. It got to the point where Terry was getting ripped by 95% of the members involved with the threads. People told him to shut up, to go away, to quit the bashing. He didn't. He then posted the diy that rixster linked a few pages ago.

It's actually a shame that we can't bring back some of the really old threads. I think a lot of people would be surprised at what went down. Especially some of the people that are so quick to discredit shiv nowadays.

FWIW...I think Terry has changed dramatically since then. Hell....I even like the guy, and I couldn't stand him during the early days. Not that he would care....just my .02.

[Septro]

Originally Posted by lawdude

Looks like the smack down here is over. Just for fun, why not give it a go on the other board?

Aww how cute. I'm endeared you read the exchange where I called Shiv's integrity into question and he responded by obfuscation and avoided the issue. You want me to continue the smack-down?

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Septro

Aww how cute. I'm endeared you read the exchange where I called Shiv's integrity into question and he responded by obfuscation and avoided the issue. You want me to continue the smack-down?

Not really. Shiv's about as bad at smack as he is good at tuning. Not much fun watching your back and forth with him.

Terry, however, might not be in a class by himself when it comes to smack, but it doesn't take the teacher long to call the roll. Depending upon your skills, back and forth with him might be entertaining.

[astris]

Originally Posted by normtrum

Believe me....he did. It never seemed to stop. I remember when Terry first started doing this...he came into every procede thread asking all kinds of questions. It was actually quit civil at first. After awhile Terry became more and more agressive, and started to lash out at shiv. It got to the point where Terry was getting ripped by 95% of the members involved with the threads. People told him to shut up, to go away, to quit the bashing. He didn't. He then posted the diy that rixster linked a few pages ago.

It's actually a shame that we can't bring back some of the really old threads. I think a lot of people would be surprised at what went down. Especially some of the people that are so quick to discredit shiv nowadays.

FWIW...I think Terry has changed dramatically since then. Hell....I even like the guy, and I couldn't stand him during the early days. Not that he would care....just my .02.

I know he did... that was the joke. lol.

I'm well aware of his history. Check my join date, I'm OG. haha.

[Septro]

Yea - Terry might clamp the 'delete button' on me attempting to call him out on his own forums, but frankly its the personalities of the two that make things so interesting. But that wouldn't stop me from trying if Terry attempted to pull some of the same shenanigans. They both have a good tune, no they both have dam good tunes - but neither one is helping they're cause significantly. I'd be curious to see if any customers have been swayed by the technical or non-technical discussion so far?

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by astris

I know he did... that was the joke. lol.

I'm well aware of his history. Check my join date, I'm OG. haha.

Sorry - re-read. My bad.
Obviously with your join date you must remembver the gold old days very well.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by sambonator

Here's Terry's response to you:

Since I am sure this will get there verbatim, I would have addressed directly provided the maturity level was up to par.

There is no accounting for technological advancements. The statements were made directly that timing control was not needed due to the DME controlling things. This was even stated last summer when questioned about the change of opinion. Specifically, that timing control (CPS offsetting) was just being included due to customer demand and not an actual need. It was even suggested earlier on that the timing control in the PROcede was pointless as the DME can handle everything in the end. There were never any exceptions to the statements; it was a marketing ploy to offset the fact that all of the other piggybacks did employ timing control.

I will not dance around this and play back and forth games. If something was later found which contradicted previous opinions, then so be it. I have even seen other people reiterate what BMS claimed as truth, even recently.

As for timing being added back in, it would be across the board regardless of methods. I hope to have some tools soon which definitively tell me what is going on and with detailed logs. This may delay the next set of test but I would rather be thorough.

Also, what do engine failures and Vishnu’s business have anything to do with my post?

[Bubbles]

***Chiming in from the peanut gallery***

[cbad335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I look forward to your input once all the testing is complete and the results are posted. I'll even take opportunity to summaries it, a la cliff notes, for those like yourself who aren't technically savvy.

Uncle Shiv

That made me laugh, hard.

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Since I am sure this will get there verbatim, I would have addressed directly provided the maturity level was up to par.

There is no accounting for technological advancements. The statements were made directly that timing control was not needed due to the DME controlling things. This was even stated last summer when questioned about the change of opinion. Specifically, that timing control (CPS offsetting) was just being included due to customer demand and not an actual need. It was even suggested earlier on that the timing control in the PROcede was pointless as the DME can handle everything in the end. There were never any exceptions to the statements; it was a marketing ploy to offset the fact that all of the other piggybacks did employ timing control.

I will not dance around this and play back and forth games. If something was later found which contradicted previous opinions, then so be it. I have even seen other people reiterate what BMS claimed as truth, even recently.

As for timing being added back in, it would be across the board regardless of methods. I hope to have some tools soon which definitively tell me what is going on and with detailed logs. This may delay the next set of test but I would rather be thorough.

Also, what do engine failures and Vishnu’s business have anything to do with my post?

Originally Posted by Terry @ BMS

Steve,

We can have a theoretical discussion on timing in the N54, or we can have a discussion about what you think I thought and when you think I thought it. I guess the latter interests you more. So here is a post from 11-20-2007, ~9 months before the release of the JB3, in a thread you participated in, specifically mentioning the need for an alternative timing solution:

From:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=90

PS. We have been moderating this thread and insults will be deleted. There is no reason for you to avoid also following up on the discussion here -- if nothing else it would add credibility to your work.

Anyhow, looking forward to all the results!

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by Septro

Yea - Terry might clamp the 'delete button' on me attempting to call him out on his own forums, but frankly its the personalities of the two that make things so interesting. But that wouldn't stop me from trying if Terry attempted to pull some of the same shenanigans. They both have a good tune, no they both have dam good tunes - but neither one is helping they're cause significantly. I'd be curious to see if any customers have been swayed by the technical or non-technical discussion so far?

Yes, and as of right now it's towards the Procede for me. Shiv's willingness to explain the workings of the unit is a bit of comfort for me. I can appreciate the technical side as well, and it seems like the Procede is a little better built. I'd rather pay extra for a unit that is all there.

Jury is still out, but that's where I'm leaning at the moment.

Dan

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Yes, and as of right now it's towards the Procede for me. Shiv's willingness to explain the workings of the unit is a bit of comfort for me. I can appreciate the technical side as well, and it seems like the Procede is a little better built. I'd rather pay extra for a unit that is all there.

Jury is still out, but that's where I'm leaning at the moment.

Dan

Make sure you check out the Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum area regarding the two companies involved (Vishnu Tuning and Burger Motorsports) before you make your final decision.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42

[scalbert]

IMO, this thread has run its course. Mods, please close it and we will pick up in the next chapter.