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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 2009 BMW 328i - Starter Electric Issue



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      11-22-2020, 08:45 PM   #23
mecheng77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrad570 View Post
Hi all - I'd like to piggyback off of the OP's initial problem here since you've all provided a lot of great information in this post, but I'll introduce a dramatic twist that replacing my car's starter didn't fix my "no crank, no start" problem *gasp* - in fact, multiple starters have died at the hand of my car... apparently. If you think I should start a new thread for this, please feel free to suggest so, but I thought it might be good to use this as a starting point.

TLDR version: I have a no crank, no start problem accompanied by the aforementioned A0B4 code, refractory to new starter installations x2 recent. New P0442(EVAP System Leak Detected) code this time around, for which the suggestion is to replace the fuel cap, which is on its way in the mail, but not sure this would prevent starter from coming on or prompt the A0B4 code.

Description of symptoms: Car dash lights up as normal. Press break + clutch, hit ignition switch - The only sound seems to be the hum of the fuel pump. Cannot distinguish any pinion "click" either.
A0B4 code as before, but new code of
OBD-II scanners: Bavarian technic cable and BlueDriver.

Too long version:
My car is a 328i, 2008 e90 with a manual transmission at ~147k miles. Recently moved from NC to MA. Here's a timeline of what I believe to be pertinent issues relative to diagnosing the issue at hand.
8/2017, no crank, no start - 1 month after purchasing car, was stranded in parking lot when starter first died. Replaced with a TYC 117922 starter motor from RockAuto. Fixed. (Starter Replacement #1, TYC)
9/2020, battery replacement - Noticed weak cranking (not an absence of cranking) and later that day, had to get a jump (at the jump posts in the engine bay) in a Big Y parking lot to get to Autozone, where I replaced the battery with their suggested Duralast Gold [H6-DLG Group Size 48 730 CCA] - I was at first wary as it wasn't an exact fit, but it was the best they had at the time so I went with it. Installed it and was on my way without issue.
10/14/20, intermittent no crank, no start Thought that there was no way my starter was the issue after having replaced it only 3.5 years ago, but I was luckily in my parking lot at work, atop a hill so I pushed it across the lot and was able to pop-start it down the hill. Figured the most likely problem was a bad starter, as the battery was new and there wasn't even a weak crank, and due to the fact that the car started. Oddly enough, after cautiously parking my car atop a hill ~1mi from home that night for the next morning, the car started without issue - didn't have to pop-start. for about 3-4 days, the car started morning and night without issue, before the problem returned. I figured, "okay, likely the starter." For good measure, I used a multimeter while the engine was running to verify that the alternator was charging the battery, got ~14v, so excluded any alternator and battery issues at this time, in my mind. Requested warranty replacement of TYC starter from RockAuto, problem solved...figured it was just a short-lived starter, so life went on. (Starter Replacement #2, TYC)

11/6/20, intermittent no crank, no start What. The. Heck. Enlisted the help of a more mechanically-capable friend. Together, we decided it couldn't possibly be the starter - the new starter worked well for over 2 weeks! Must be an electrical or computer-related issue... Dove into these forums (very thankful to you all for sharing your plethora of knowledge and experience) and tested a few alternative paths:
- Ensured battery was properly secured & connections were strong, no kinked or exposed wires to be found. Thought maybe the BST sensor was damaged somehow (no crashes or recent trauma - unless you count New England potholes...which actually, you might ). B+ seemed secure, tight, didn't appear to be the BST upon examination and pushing in positive cable didn't seem to help problem.
- Unhooked the IBS to see if this was inhibiting the starter. Only managed to throw an IBS-related code, which resolved after re-connecting. No success.
- Tested voltage at starter bolt by using metal rod & multimeter without needing to remove intake manifold. Voltage at starter = ~12v.
- Tested ignition switch connection to starter by using multimeter to test same part of as the OP did with a test light & ensured ~12v were measured when start button pressed.
- Verified good ground wire, good contact: engine-to-frame ground wire in good condition, seemingly no reason to suspect this is issue...car has historically been in south until this fall, so little exposure to road-salt or water, even less with underbody panels of course.
- Used multimeter to verify all fuses related to "starter" according to fuse box diagram were all working. Replaced R4 relay for kicks as some suggest, but to no avail.
- Questioned whether my clutch or break sensor may be faulty with the CAS preventing starter engagement, but was unsure how to best test this. My logic led me to try and start the car as I normally would and listen for the hum of the fuel pump, which normally lasts between 1-2 seconds while holding in clutch+break. I then tried to start again, but pulled foot off clutch, which stopped the fuel pump hum immediately; similar experience when pulling foot off break. I considered this to mean these sensors were likely intact, although I have no idea if this is a correct assumption or test. Also discounted this possibility as the ignition switch received power on ignition press.
- Out of desperation... looked back at the starter itself. Gave it a love tap and it came to life. Removed starter, went to AA and bought a CarQuest starter to replace it with. Problem fixed...for ~10 days.
(Starter Replacement #3, CarQuest)

11/16/20 Morale is low, boys. No crank, no start again....only difference now is that I have a new P0442 code (EVAP System Leak Detected), for which the suggestion is to replace the fuel cap, which is on its way in the mail. Wondering if I triggered this by poking around in the engine bay somewhere or might have a loose hose, but even so - would this prevent the engine from starting? I figured if it did, it wouldn't have worked for two weeks, but maybe something wiggled loose, although I couldn't find any evidence of this being the case on inspection...
Today
I find it very hard to believe I've just happened into a patch of bad starters, but maybe that's what this is? I always thought if a starter was bad, it would be dead on arrival... Do I need to do another tap test / throw another one in there or is there something I'm missing? Is there any way that my battery-change could be "frying" the starters, or were these starters simply bad to begin with? Is there something I could be doing wrong during installation to cause these issues? Any thoughts on my next step? CAS problem without codes?
Hopefully I've reported enough, but not too much context here - I apologize for the length, but I figured detail would be preferred...

Other codes coming up that I initially deemed irrelevant, but I'll include for completeness-sake:
- DSC codes for ~5 months which have not changed (5DF0 + 5DF1), which I will address eventually, but do not seem relevant here.
- Engine codes 2F71 + 2A15, which have been present since I've had the car and was told the fix was very expensive, so never bothered with it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Thanks all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrad570 View Post
Hi all - I'd like to piggyback off of the OP's initial problem here since you've all provided a lot of great information in this post, but I'll introduce a dramatic twist that replacing my car's starter didn't fix my "no crank, no start" problem *gasp* - in fact, multiple starters have died at the hand of my car... apparently. If you think I should start a new thread for this, please feel free to suggest so, but I thought it might be good to use this as a starting point.

TLDR version: I have a no crank, no start problem accompanied by the aforementioned A0B4 code, refractory to new starter installations x2 recent. New P0442(EVAP System Leak Detected) code this time around, for which the suggestion is to replace the fuel cap, which is on its way in the mail, but not sure this would prevent starter from coming on or prompt the A0B4 code.

Description of symptoms: Car dash lights up as normal. Press break + clutch, hit ignition switch - The only sound seems to be the hum of the fuel pump. Cannot distinguish any pinion "click" either.
A0B4 code as before, but new code of
OBD-II scanners: Bavarian technic cable and BlueDriver.

Too long version:
My car is a 328i, 2008 e90 with a manual transmission at ~147k miles. Recently moved from NC to MA. Here's a timeline of what I believe to be pertinent issues relative to diagnosing the issue at hand.
8/2017, no crank, no start - 1 month after purchasing car, was stranded in parking lot when starter first died. Replaced with a TYC 117922 starter motor from RockAuto. Fixed. (Starter Replacement #1, TYC)
9/2020, battery replacement - Noticed weak cranking (not an absence of cranking) and later that day, had to get a jump (at the jump posts in the engine bay) in a Big Y parking lot to get to Autozone, where I replaced the battery with their suggested Duralast Gold [H6-DLG Group Size 48 730 CCA] - I was at first wary as it wasn't an exact fit, but it was the best they had at the time so I went with it. Installed it and was on my way without issue.
10/14/20, intermittent no crank, no start Thought that there was no way my starter was the issue after having replaced it only 3.5 years ago, but I was luckily in my parking lot at work, atop a hill so I pushed it across the lot and was able to pop-start it down the hill. Figured the most likely problem was a bad starter, as the battery was new and there wasn't even a weak crank, and due to the fact that the car started. Oddly enough, after cautiously parking my car atop a hill ~1mi from home that night for the next morning, the car started without issue - didn't have to pop-start. for about 3-4 days, the car started morning and night without issue, before the problem returned. I figured, "okay, likely the starter." For good measure, I used a multimeter while the engine was running to verify that the alternator was charging the battery, got ~14v, so excluded any alternator and battery issues at this time, in my mind. Requested warranty replacement of TYC starter from RockAuto, problem solved...figured it was just a short-lived starter, so life went on. (Starter Replacement #2, TYC)

11/6/20, intermittent no crank, no start What. The. Heck. Enlisted the help of a more mechanically-capable friend. Together, we decided it couldn't possibly be the starter - the new starter worked well for over 2 weeks! Must be an electrical or computer-related issue... Dove into these forums (very thankful to you all for sharing your plethora of knowledge and experience) and tested a few alternative paths:
- Ensured battery was properly secured & connections were strong, no kinked or exposed wires to be found. Thought maybe the BST sensor was damaged somehow (no crashes or recent trauma - unless you count New England potholes...which actually, you might ). B+ seemed secure, tight, didn't appear to be the BST upon examination and pushing in positive cable didn't seem to help problem.
- Unhooked the IBS to see if this was inhibiting the starter. Only managed to throw an IBS-related code, which resolved after re-connecting. No success.
- Tested voltage at starter bolt by using metal rod & multimeter without needing to remove intake manifold. Voltage at starter = ~12v.
- Tested ignition switch connection to starter by using multimeter to test same part of as the OP did with a test light & ensured ~12v were measured when start button pressed.
- Verified good ground wire, good contact: engine-to-frame ground wire in good condition, seemingly no reason to suspect this is issue...car has historically been in south until this fall, so little exposure to road-salt or water, even less with underbody panels of course.
- Used multimeter to verify all fuses related to "starter" according to fuse box diagram were all working. Replaced R4 relay for kicks as some suggest, but to no avail.
- Questioned whether my clutch or break sensor may be faulty with the CAS preventing starter engagement, but was unsure how to best test this. My logic led me to try and start the car as I normally would and listen for the hum of the fuel pump, which normally lasts between 1-2 seconds while holding in clutch+break. I then tried to start again, but pulled foot off clutch, which stopped the fuel pump hum immediately; similar experience when pulling foot off break. I considered this to mean these sensors were likely intact, although I have no idea if this is a correct assumption or test. Also discounted this possibility as the ignition switch received power on ignition press.
- Out of desperation... looked back at the starter itself. Gave it a love tap and it came to life. Removed starter, went to AA and bought a CarQuest starter to replace it with. Problem fixed...for ~10 days.
(Starter Replacement #3, CarQuest)

11/16/20 Morale is low, boys. No crank, no start again....only difference now is that I have a new P0442 code (EVAP System Leak Detected), for which the suggestion is to replace the fuel cap, which is on its way in the mail. Wondering if I triggered this by poking around in the engine bay somewhere or might have a loose hose, but even so - would this prevent the engine from starting? I figured if it did, it wouldn't have worked for two weeks, but maybe something wiggled loose, although I couldn't find any evidence of this being the case on inspection...
Today
I find it very hard to believe I've just happened into a patch of bad starters, but maybe that's what this is? I always thought if a starter was bad, it would be dead on arrival... Do I need to do another tap test / throw another one in there or is there something I'm missing? Is there any way that my battery-change could be "frying" the starters, or were these starters simply bad to begin with? Is there something I could be doing wrong during installation to cause these issues? Any thoughts on my next step? CAS problem without codes?
Hopefully I've reported enough, but not too much context here - I apologize for the length, but I figured detail would be preferred...

Other codes coming up that I initially deemed irrelevant, but I'll include for completeness-sake:
- DSC codes for ~5 months which have not changed (5DF0 + 5DF1), which I will address eventually, but do not seem relevant here.
- Engine codes 2F71 + 2A15, which have been present since I've had the car and was told the fix was very expensive, so never bothered with it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated,
Thanks all.
Stop using no name brand starters. Get a new or reman Bosch, they aren't expensive
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