[martincc]

Just recently my car overheated with the yellow then red warning messages. Did some testing in my garage at idle (using the secrete menus) and noticed that;

1) fan has 14v power to the connector
2) fan will turn on and run on start up for about 30 seconds then shut off, seems to be timed with the AC compressor cutting out (more below)
3) engine temp will then climb to about 90, thermostat open, drop off slightly, then continue to climb slowly to 120 before yellow over temp light comes on. During this time the fan will not engage.
4) water pump is running, coolant is moving
5) fan does not seem to run with AC on, however i just noticed that during this my AC has quit as well, compressor is not running.

My questions is are there two systems which trigger the cooling fan? I know the fan works as it runs at start up until the AC compressor kicks out. I know it should run with the AC on, which explains why its working at start up with AC on (I am thinking AC has a leak as compressor inst engaging), but is there another sensor independent sensor which would trigger the cooling fan regardless of AC state?

Car is a 2006 330 xi with 260,000kms.

[MattCopp]

Hopefully someone has some input on your problem. I am having basically the same symptoms you are. Cant seem to find the issue. Water pump is good, fan is good as it works sometimes. Fan does not work when A/C is on and car surges at idle from 600-1000 rpm when the A/C button is on.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by martincc

Just recently my car overheated with the yellow then red warning messages. Did some testing in my garage at idle (using the secrete menus) and noticed that;

1) fan has 14v power to the connector
2) fan will turn on and run on start up for about 30 seconds then shut off, seems to be timed with the AC compressor cutting out (more below)
3) engine temp will then climb to about 90, thermostat open, drop off slightly, then continue to climb slowly to 120 before yellow over temp light comes on. During this time the fan will not engage.
4) water pump is running, coolant is moving
5) fan does not seem to run with AC on, however i just noticed that during this my AC has quit as well, compressor is not running.

My questions is are there two systems which trigger the cooling fan? I know the fan works as it runs at start up until the AC compressor kicks out. I know it should run with the AC on, which explains why its working at start up with AC on (I am thinking AC has a leak as compressor inst engaging), but is there another sensor independent sensor which would trigger the cooling fan regardless of AC state?

Car is a 2006 330 xi with 260,000kms.

The fan should absolutely run when the AC is on.

What codes are you getting exactly ?

[MattCopp]

Sorry OP for jumping in this thread. I'm curious as well to what codes you are getting.

The codes I have are
2eff electric fan self diagnosis
2ded power management closed circuit current violation

[PichaDis11]

Originally Posted by martincc

Just recently my car overheated with the yellow then red warning messages. Did some testing in my garage at idle (using the secrete menus) and noticed that;

1) fan has 14v power to the connector
2) fan will turn on and run on start up for about 30 seconds then shut off, seems to be timed with the AC compressor cutting out (more below)
3) engine temp will then climb to about 90, thermostat open, drop off slightly, then continue to climb slowly to 120 before yellow over temp light comes on. During this time the fan will not engage.
4) water pump is running, coolant is moving
5) fan does not seem to run with AC on, however i just noticed that during this my AC has quit as well, compressor is not running.

My questions is are there two systems which trigger the cooling fan? I know the fan works as it runs at start up until the AC compressor kicks out. I know it should run with the AC on, which explains why its working at start up with AC on (I am thinking AC has a leak as compressor inst engaging), but is there another sensor independent sensor which would trigger the cooling fan regardless of AC state?

Car is a 2006 330 xi with 260,000kms.

The fan is run based on conditions as the DME deem fit. To provide optimal cooling for AC system being on; the fan will run.

The fan is also set to max speed when there's a fault with the engine coolant system. Failed thermostat/ water pump.

You hound have your car scanned for codes and also a test of the AC system.

[martincc]

No CEL.. I will have to pick up a scanner i guess. I’ll recharge AC and see if that solves the AC issue (likely temp fix if it’s a leak).

Originally Posted by MattCopp

Sorry OP for jumping in this thread. I'm curious as well to what codes you are getting.

The codes I have are
2eff electric fan self diagnosis
2ded power management closed circuit current violation

[535XrayIndigo]

Based on your symptoms it sounds like it is a ground fault. The current violation leads me to believe that the ecm is trying to turn on the fan and if seeing that the current draw is too high. I would start by checking your relays for your fan. See if they are shorting out. I am not intimately familiar with BMW wiring so someone more familiar may have to help with where to pull that relay from or you can find the diagram online. If that's not it I would see if you can find the ohm rating on the standard fan and compare it to yours using a volt meter. Could be the motor is going on you. These are both free. Try them before buying anything else. The ac is probably shutting off to make sure the radiator gets as much cool air as possible. I doubt ac charge will do anything.

[RomKaN54]

had issue where my AC freon was too low so the fan would not turn on. Soon as I added some freon fan would start working soon as you turn on AC.

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by RomKaN54

had issue where my AC freon was too low so the fan would not turn on. Soon as I added some freon fan would start working soon as you turn on AC.

because the low pressure switch wouldn't let the compressor engage.

I doubt it's a refrigerant level issue for the OP since his car overheats.

my best guess is that the fan is worn out, drawing a ton of current and the module is going into protection mode.
or the fan control module is failed, but usually they fail full on.
only way to know without simply tossing parts at it is ISTA.

[jjohnny5]

Check your coolant temperature sensor. When its fucked this may cause things like that.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by martincc

No CEL.. I will have to pick up a scanner i guess. I’ll recharge AC and see if that solves the AC issue (likely temp fix if it’s a leak).

Originally Posted by martincc

Just recently my car overheated with the yellow then red warning messages. Did some testing in my garage at idle (using the secrete menus) and noticed that;

1) fan has 14v power to the connector
2) fan will turn on and run on start up for about 30 seconds then shut off, seems to be timed with the AC compressor cutting out (more below)
3) engine temp will then climb to about 90, thermostat open, drop off slightly, then continue to climb slowly to 120 before yellow over temp light comes on. During this time the fan will not engage.
4) water pump is running, coolant is moving
5) fan does not seem to run with AC on, however i just noticed that during this my AC has quit as well, compressor is not running.

My questions is are there two systems which trigger the cooling fan? I know the fan works as it runs at start up until the AC compressor kicks out. I know it should run with the AC on, which explains why its working at start up with AC on (I am thinking AC has a leak as compressor inst engaging), but is there another sensor independent sensor which would trigger the cooling fan regardless of AC state? Car is a 2006 330 xi with 260,000kms.

The TIS circuit diagram linked below should answer your questions. Assuming this is the correct circuit diagram for your 2006 330xi sedan(?) you have NO relay involved in operating the Cooling Fan. It is operated directly by signal from the DME to the Fan Electronic Module (integral to the fan unit and NOT available separately AFAIK). That signal is sent by the DME via the Black/Blue wire from Pin #8 of DME Connector X60001, to Pin #4 of Fan Connector X1797, if you have the 600W Fan.

The TIS circuit diagrams are interactive, which means you can click on a component ID# such as X1797 and get more information on that component, such as "Installation Location" or "Connector View." Connector View of X1797 shows a different connector configuration from Connector X82 used on the 400W fan, so if you have NO labels or other documentation to determine you fan wattage, the comparison of connector views for the two different fans should let you know which one you have:
600W fan (X1797):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/CTKpbtQP
400W fan (X82):
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/CSpUh2Oc

There MAY be a clue in the A/C circuit diagram as far as why the compressor clutch or valve (whichever your model has) is cutting out, but THAT should NOT affect radiator fan operation based upon the inputs shown in the linked "Engine Cooling System" diagram, namely the ECTS, Radiator Outlet Temp Sensor. Generally, the compressor will NOT pump refrigerant if the system pressure is either too low or too high (based upon the Refrigerant Pressure Sensor input), but it is also possible that fan failure will cause the compressor to disengage.

Actually, the Radiator Fan A/C over-ride ONLY runs the fan when the A/C Compressor Valve is active and the compressor is pumping refrigerant (requiring condenser cooling function, hence the fan ON over-ride). Just because the interior blower is blowing or the A/C panel is lit does NOT mean the fan should be running. What IS certain is that with the Climate Control OFF (no blower function, etc.) the radiator fan SHOULD come on at least at a lower speed, once the ECTS reading gets over 100C.

BTW, you didn't say, but I assume that you have NO cooling issue when the vehicle is moving at more than 30 MPH? If that assumption is NOT correct then radiator fan is NOT the ONLY problem.

Based upon the information provided to date, the most likely SWAG (among a number of possibilities) is that the Control Unit incorporated in the fan is defective, and NOT responding properly to the signal from the DME described above.

INPA or ISTA can test that so you don't have to guess. For instance, INPA can be used to read the actual fan speed along with Temp signals from the ECTS and Radiator Outlet Temp Sensor, as well as to Activate the fan to run at 15%, 50% or 90% of max speed. If you have a laptop, I would suggest downloading INPA, installing it, and let us know if you need help connecting with the DME and using the F6 | F1 | F2 "E-Lufter" or Electric-Fan function.

If you don't choose to do your own INPA diagnostics, then you have two choices:
1) get someone who has INPA/ISTA and is competent in its use to do the diagnostics (should take 30 minutes or less), OR
2) throw parts at it, beginning with a proper wattage radiator fan unit replacement, ~ $500.

Personally, before spending $500 and hours replacing, I would do diagnostics with INPA/ISTA, even if I had to pay someone to do it. Unfortunately, a generic code reader won't help you here as you need to connect to the JBE and IHKA modules to diagnose the compressor cutout, and you need more than the ability to read & clear stored codes when you connect with the DME.
You need INPA/ISTA, or some BMW-specific Scan Tool/ Software to be able to read actual fan speed, radiator outlet temp, and to ACTIVATE (Steuern) the radiator fan to test its controller function.

Since attaching a jpg of the relevant INPA screen (at least done the only way I know of) will make the text difficult to read (scroll laterally), I will attach it to a follow-up post.

George

[gbalthrop]

Attached is INPA Screen F6 | F1 | F2, E-Lufter (Electric Fan Activation)

George

[nsjames]

I noticed the other day that Carly will read the requested fan PWM.

so that's another option. More expensive, but way more accessible.

[mweisdorfer]

Originally Posted by martincc

No CEL.. I will have to pick up a scanner i guess. I’ll recharge AC and see if that solves the AC issue (likely temp fix if it’s a leak).

Get a Foxwell or a a Schwaben from ECS tuning

[martincc]

thanks for the reply's. I did the coolant pump test, steady stream of fluid from the pump into tank. So i believe pump is good. As mentioned car does not over heat while driving. Only at standstill or idle. When first started the fan will run with the AC so I know the fan works. However, the AC just recently quit and when the AC compressor kicks out so will the cooling fan. Checked AC pressure and it was low when compressor was engaged. I recharged the AC to 45lbs however the compressor still kicks on and off. During this cycling the cooling fan does not come back on and car temp will build until it reaches 120degC with no action from the fan leading to the overheat.

So to me two issues exist.

1) AC leak somewhere. I think for a while this was masking whatever was causing the cooling fan not to come on as the AC would run the fan, cooling the engine. (i usually run AC all the time). Any idea what would cause the compressor to cycle on and off if at the proper pressure?

2)issue some where with control of the cooling fan. Any idea what/if something else controls the fan besides the engine temp sensor which seems to read ok on the dash menu? Is there a dedicated temp sensor somewhere else which controls the fan? I notice on rock auto there is a sensor in the lower rad hose, which is cheap. The fans are anywhere from $450-$850 CAD. Is that the same sensor the engine temp is read off or is this a separate sensor for the fan? I ordered a new sensor so will swap that as a cheap start.

thanks again for any help. Car is a beater to the office so I dont have to deal with navigating my duramax downtown in underground parking, not looking to put much into this vehicle..

[nsjames]

for what a Kcan adapter costs you really should download ista/inpa and get actual diagnostic information from the car before you start throwing hundreds of dollars into it in parts.


goto the bimmergeeks website and order a cable and download the software.

[RomKaN54]

i think you overcharge the AC mine is at 36-38 at 105F too much will cause ur compressor to go on/off...

[martincc]

i just got around to working on this last night.. was the temp sensor in the rad hose.. $20 part and just popped it in without draining coolant and no tools. Simple fix luckily. Fan operation must somehow relate to AC as it is working fine now as well. No CEL lights so guessing the sensor was working OK at normal temp but not responding to the increased temps and kicking the fan on. Thanks for the help all.

[martincc]

back again.. problem came back.. I bought a cable and got INPA working. When I selected N52 engine I could activate features (water pump for example), but when I selected engine fan as above it started momentarily before shutting off and not responding. I assume its the fan now as its non responsive to inputs.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by martincc

...I bought a cable and got INPA working. When I selected N52 engine I could activate features (water pump for example), but when I selected engine fan as above it started momentarily before shutting off and not responding. I assume its the fan now as its non responsive to inputs. Does anyone know how to tell a 400 vs 600 W fan? Can is a 2006 330XI e90 Canadian.

See this TIS Circuit Diagram for your 2006 330xi E90:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ooling/i7SHdY5

The Radiator Fan (M9) has a Connector, either X1797 for the 600W fan, or X82 for the 400W. As you will note from the circuit diagram, the Red/Blue 12V+ wire is connected to pin #2 on the 600W, and pin #4 on the 400W. On the connectors I have looked at closely, the pin numbers are in tiny embossing on the outboard edges of the connectors. Here is the Connector View for X1797 (600W fan), and you can click on any BLUE component ID# in the circuit diagrams and get more info on that component such as Installation Location or Connector View:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...i-lim/CTKpbtQP

Check your fuse, F69 (50A) to make sure it is not blown and for 12V+ at the Red/Blue wire at pin#2. Also check the Brown ground wire at pin#1 for continuity to ground, and firm attachment at Ground Connector X166.

In INPA E-Lufter Activation, try all three percentages, 15%, 50% and 90%, and don't forget to return control to DME (F4) when finished testing.
You want to check everything thoroughly 'cuz a replacement fan will run ~ $500 US.

George

[martincc]

thanks! looks like all is working to the fan as it should.. + 12V, ground, and had a 4v signal on the small blue wire and continuity to ground. I think I have the 400W fan although the connector doesn't really look like either.

When I first connected to the car when cold the fan would run at all speeds perfectly when commanded. Started car, could not get any response from fan. Shut car off and fan would try 3 times to start when commanded.. spinning for about a second, then stopping for ~5, then starting back up again for a second. All signs pointing to fan i guess.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by martincc

thanks! looks like all is working to the fan as it should.. + 12V, ground, and had a 4v signal on the small blue wire and continuity to ground. I think I have the 400W fan although the connector doesn't really look like either.

When I first connected to the car when cold the fan would run at all speeds perfectly when commanded. Started car, could not get any response from fan. Shut car off and fan would try 3 times to start when commanded.. spinning for about a second, then stopping for ~5, then starting back up again for a second. All signs pointing to fan i guess.

So did this end up being the fan?
Did you replace it with a new one?