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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > All-Wheel-Drive (Xi / xDrive) Talk > Front axle broke the 3rd time



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      10-13-2017, 05:47 PM   #23
moapys
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Folks, I am in a similar situation (no WOT, just after a minor road-bump); my pass/Rt-side axle has similarly died THREE times: Same failure mode each time, destruction at CV joint/boot - following careful installation with new circlip and gentle, flush mounting. I've been buying "increasingly better" parts - now up to reman' OEM 'Cardone' version. I am getting bloody tired of this job, and cannot believe that I will have to spend several hundred for a new OEM?@!

Has anyone solved a repeat-failure situation, either by a magic installation technique, discovered other contributing failure, or acquiescing and giving over a thousand to the stealership? My next will be either a 'better still' reman, or a junkyard pull. HELP?!?
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      10-16-2017, 02:16 AM   #24
PhaseP
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The inner joint failing like that (as described earlier in this thread) happens when the rest of the axle moves outwards enough to tear the boot and come out. The boot holds the inner joint together when it is not installed, and when it is installed in the car the suspension geometry holds the inner joint together, not allowing the rest of the axle coming outwards enough to pop out of the inner joint housing and tearing the boot apart.

So with that thought, I would look into what may be causing the suspension geometry go awry and causing this to happen.

One thing to look is engine mounts. If they are worn/torn and letting the engine flop around, since the inner side is on the engine this may cause separation. Although the engine mounts on these cars seems to be pretty good.

Then look at the rest of the suspension. Are the shocks replaced? If so installed correctly at the spindle? Any ball joint's bushings worn out to allows excessive outward travel of the suspension?
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      10-17-2017, 12:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moapys View Post
Folks, I am in a similar situation (no WOT, just after a minor road-bump); my pass/Rt-side axle has similarly died THREE times: Same failure mode each time, destruction at CV joint/boot - following careful installation with new circlip and gentle, flush mounting. I've been buying "increasingly better" parts - now up to reman' OEM 'Cardone' version. I am getting bloody tired of this job, and cannot believe that I will have to spend several hundred for a new OEM?@!

Has anyone solved a repeat-failure situation, either by a magic installation technique, discovered other contributing failure, or acquiescing and giving over a thousand to the stealership? My next will be either a 'better still' reman, or a junkyard pull. HELP?!?
Cardone is not an upgrade. Bearings may be ok quality but the boot is crap. If you're doing any aftermarket axes, reboot with OEM boots.

I originally did a Cardone reman and within 2 weeks, not even 200 miles of driving, the boots tore. So I warrantied it, ripped off the cardone boots and rebooted with OEM boots. Been fine for the past 2+ years. However, it's not my daily anymore. I'd say I've put about 5-6k miles on that axle
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      10-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #26
matteblue3er
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
The inner joint failing like that (as described earlier in this thread) happens when the rest of the axle moves outwards enough to tear the boot and come out. The boot holds the inner joint together when it is not installed, and when it is installed in the car the suspension geometry holds the inner joint together, not allowing the rest of the axle coming outwards enough to pop out of the inner joint housing and tearing the boot apart.

So with that thought, I would look into what may be causing the suspension geometry go awry and causing this to happen.

One thing to look is engine mounts. If they are worn/torn and letting the engine flop around, since the inner side is on the engine this may cause separation. Although the engine mounts on these cars seems to be pretty good.

Then look at the rest of the suspension. Are the shocks replaced? If so installed correctly at the spindle? Any ball joint's bushings worn out to allows excessive outward travel of the suspension?
Passenger mount mount fails within 100k on every E9x I have seen. It's more common on 335s since they have more power but the N52/1 models suffer from this too. Most of the time, you can't tell unless the subframe is down. That's the only reason I knew my mount was bad...while the subframe was down for oil pan gasket.
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      10-21-2017, 06:56 AM   #27
moapys
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Thanks for feedback on this; 'really does appear to be h/w...

Ok - I appreciate the "reality check" guys. I went for an OEM / 70Kmi pull which looks really clean; it's going in today... I'll be sure to update everyone down-the-road, which I hope to be at least a few months - and maybe every year or so (finally)!

It's pretty bad when you get so adept at this job by repetition that you can change one like a pit-crew changes a tire at Indy!! Much obliged, all.
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      10-21-2017, 12:04 PM   #28
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In re-reading the geometry notes above - I now recall comparing the right/pass "closeness" of the inside CV to the wishbone pivot on the frame, and it was a LOT nearer interferance than that on the left/drvr spacing: The right clearance between the boot and adjacent swing-arm bushing is fractions of an inch, whereas the corresponding left clearance is well over an inch <!?!>.

Now, ostensibly neither the transfer case, frame or attached half-shafts move; but there is zero room for movement on the right - and that is beginning to sound like a possible root cause: Here's a shot from a YouTube DIY, and his apparent default spacing = http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...ps5ephdgbg.png - that appears to be about an inch-plus, and I have nowhere near that much.

I did a quick check on motor-mounts; there is none of the usual torque-engine-twist under load-tests; but that's never definitive ...Can someone render an opinion of "that's normal" versus "woah; something has shifted/drooped/sagged!"...? THX!!

Last edited by moapys; 10-22-2017 at 11:24 AM..
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      10-29-2017, 07:50 AM   #29
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Front axle repeat failure - FIXED

...imagine my shock when I applied extra light to the area around the front-diff mounting bracket - and lo and behold; two aluminum bolts had in fact sheared: This was causing the assembly to sag ~1.5 inches closer to the subframe...which was (likely upon mild bump) eating inner boots.

Right-or-wrong; those AL bolts got replaced with STEEL. This is a bargain, hi-mile ride, but I've had my fill of finding sheared soft stretch bolts on my garage floor and underpans. I'm thinking my E46 was that last model to have
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      10-29-2017, 06:54 PM   #30
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Are you talking about the number 10 "Supporting bracket" from the diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=31_0718

If so the bolts number 11 are steel anyway, well supposed to be. They are listed as "M8X25 ZNS3" there, ZNS3 refers to some zinc coating. I had worked on that area on my car, they were indeed steel. Those bolts go into the oil pan, which is aluminum. The engine block casing is magnesium, so bolts going into the engine block are all aluminum. (N52 that is)
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      10-29-2017, 07:22 PM   #31
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Hmm - no; that plate appears to be the mounting "carrier" into which the transaxle seal fits (and shaft is inserted)... This was a larger bracket with deep gussets to bear the weight of the front drive bits. I'll come up with a picture, as PhotoBucket is hanging for me - and I agree, PhaseP...it must be that bracket, although the line-drawing doesn't do it justice (in practice it appears a bit different).

Once I crawl back under this coming weekend, I'll get those pix - and maybe PhotoChuckIt will be working again!

Last edited by moapys; 10-29-2017 at 09:19 PM..
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      10-29-2017, 08:43 PM   #32
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Then it must be the engine mount support bracket:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=22_0113

That one has aluminum bolts because they go right into the engine block.
If that was it, from your description it looks like, then it was indeed related to your engine moving around more than supposed to, allowing the axle pop out. The only difference instead of the mount itself, problem was where the mount mounted.
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      10-30-2017, 08:09 PM   #33
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Engine mount bracket - causing CV failure

Until I crawl back under with a camera - here is a screen grab from a YouTube video that illustrates the same issue :

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k9...pslhbpafvz.png
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      10-31-2017, 08:47 AM   #34
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That looks like engine mount (support) bracket. Your engine was moving more than supposed to.
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      11-02-2017, 01:51 PM   #35
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I have E60 LCI 530d x-drive and last Saturday my passanger side shaft "dropped" from the inner joint. Today they got a replacement part to exchange the shaft, but instead of putting the new in they called and told me, that the above mentioned number 10 "Supporting bracket" has cracked from the top bolts. I saw the picture and there is a crack next to the upper bolt points. It is not all the way cracked, but a bit more than half way around the corner. I really wonder how is that possible. I did drive in slush, turned off all the traction controls and did try some slide from almost stopped state. I have around 280hp/600Nm chip and H&R springs. Car has driven around 210k km's.
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      11-02-2017, 10:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
That looks like engine mount (support) bracket. Your engine was moving more than supposed to.
Agreed. Looks to be the motor mount support
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      11-03-2017, 10:41 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahonen View Post
I have E60 LCI 530d x-drive and last Saturday my passanger side shaft "dropped" from the inner joint. Today they got a replacement part to exchange the shaft, but instead of putting the new in they called and told me, that the above mentioned number 10 "Supporting bracket" has cracked from the top bolts. I saw the picture and there is a crack next to the upper bolt points. It is not all the way cracked, but a bit more than half way around the corner. I really wonder how is that possible. I did drive in slush, turned off all the traction controls and did try some slide from almost stopped state. I have around 280hp/600Nm chip and H&R springs. Car has driven around 210k km's.
My guess, just a guess, aluminum bolts loosened just a bit by time. That provided some slack between bracket and engine. Multiple times bracket hitting back end forth each time you rev engine suddenly or hard take offs eventually metal fatigued cracked. 600nm torque must have helped a tiny bit too
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      11-23-2017, 09:42 AM   #38
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maybe I should stay away from buying used 328xi....
besides transfer case issues, I might be those too?
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      11-24-2017, 04:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masterh View Post
maybe I should stay away from buying used 328xi....
besides transfer case issues, I might be those too?
Depends on how much you need or want xdrive. It is more complicated and more parts, so naturally more things to break and fix.
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      11-24-2017, 02:22 PM   #40
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yeah I don't need it since I will use it in CA

but I havent been able to find the one I want in 328i.

As soon as I got my audi tt, I changed the oil in Haldex and hoped for the best. It has pretty high mileage (almost 200k) but I haven't had a problem past 3 years so I was thinking it could turn out like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaseP View Post
Depends on how much you need or want xdrive. It is more complicated and more parts, so naturally more things to break and fix.
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      11-25-2017, 10:07 PM   #41
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I just have seen there is a DIY at DIY section to replace the passenger side engine mount by removing the engine mount bracket. But at least on N52, that support bracket is not needed to be removed at all for passenger side engine mount replacement. Now I wonder on these cars that had trouble with the bolts breaking on that support bracket, if the passenger side engine mount at one point was replaced by removing the support bracket and reusing the aluminum bolts, or even if replacing the bolts not torqueing them correctly.
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      08-13-2018, 01:06 PM   #42
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Thank you for this post.

I had an issue where I kept breaking my CV axles. I found out that my engine mount bolts had broken. I had lost three of the four. Couldn't tell from the normal way of putting it under load and watching the engine shift. Finally got it on a lift and there it was. Replaced the bolts with new and put another CV in...car drives great!
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      02-11-2019, 03:43 PM   #43
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I cannot begin to tell you guys how happy I am to have found this thread. I have this same issue on my 2013 335xi, I've blown out the inner cv joint 3 times on the passenger side (always that side) on my car so far. I just replaced it again. I've been working to figure out root cause of this.

Here is my thread https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...light=blow+out

This last time, which was about 2 weeks ago, I had the support bracket, which attaches to the diff, break as well and when I went to change it there were 3 of the 4 bolts very loose so I'm thinking that this also may have been the cause this time since that failure would let the axle on the diff side move up and down.
All 3 times the shaft with the tripod bearing on the end is out of the receiver on the diff side. i've talked to a guy who will make me a custom longer axle shaft which I believe may help me long term since I want my car lowered.
These are some of my facts and thoughts:
1) Axle length - at a normal car height the length of the axle shaft with the tripod bearings is such that it sits in the stock position in the receiver at the diff with a full range of movement in and out allowed
a) lowering the car increases the length between the wheel hub and the diff which moves the end of the axle tripod closer to the edge of the receiver which will limit how much movement it can tolerate without a bearing going far enough out to fail

2) Excessive movement of the engine - due to motor mount or motor mount bracket, as you mentioned and I didn't think of, which again makes this distance between the wheel hub and receiver longer

3) Excessive camber as I found illustrated on a Kies Motorsport You tube vid where Brian caused a failure by increasing camber with a mod using F80 control arms on his f30 xDrive. This would also increase the length as above.

So anyway there appears to be a small tolerance for the allowed length between the wheel hub and the receiver that takes the tripod bearing end.

I will be changing my motor mounts this weekend and will inspect my motor mount brackets as well. I have a guy who will make me a custom length axle shaft but I have more measurements and investigation to do before pulling that trigger.
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      05-24-2023, 12:20 PM   #44
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I have a 2015 bmw 328i Xdrive. already on my 5TH axel and different mechanics have works on the my car and no one was able to help me. to the point the car is just parked in my garage. does any body knows the issues of this problem?
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