[Phil325i]

Re your fuel leak, you might want to read this...

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414556

[Darth Niloc]

Originally Posted by Phil325i

Re your fuel leak, you might want to read this...

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414556

Cheers dude. I plan to get a look at it over the next couple of weeks when I get the car back up on the ramps.

[Darth Niloc]

Good news - The motor passed the MOT with flying colours! She is back on the road again but that is where the good news ends...

Having driven a few hundred miles I can safely say the new map in the car isn't right. Power is slow to pick up and there are a few dead spots especially one around 3k rpm that is doing my head in. Depends how you hit it but it feels like she loses all boost and then it builds slowly again once it gets past 3.2k. It is much quicker when on boost now but the car definitely didn't drive like that before.

I spoke to the guy who mapped the motor and he told me to bring it back in. However I got chatting to a few guys who also had their motors tuned at this place and they say he is a cowboy and best avoided. This is the same guy who came highly recommended to me during summer so I dunno

However by an absolute stroke of luck, I got talking to a legitimately very knowledgeable chap who is also a tuner and the owner of a couple of tuned 35's. We had a great conversation about what I wanted to achieve with the build and we came up with a plan that I am very excited for...

The plan is 300bhp or as close to it as I can get. To get there I have ordered and am waiting delivery on a new Front Mount Intercooler, DPF Delete and EGR Delete from Darkside. Once fitted the motor is going to him to be tuned properly this time. He did say realistically 300bhp would be a push on the standard turbo and fuel pump but with the above modifications and a proper rolling road tune, we should get 290 something. However ultimately reliability is more important to me than a few extra horses but we will see what happens on the day.

Can I also say what an amazing piece of kit xHP FlashTool is. It has transformed the car, no more waiting for what felt like an eternity for the car to change gear. D mode feels like it has been improved, S mode feels just brutal now as the car bangs through the gear changes. I tend to drive the car in manual most of the time and the gear changes are now instant. To anyone reading this who might be on the fence, I cannot recommend this modification any more highly.

Other than that, I have ordered 15mm spacers, the F style gear knob conversion kit and a new exhaust. The exhaust will be custom made but I haven't fully decided what I want yet. Am considering just a straight pipe with no boxes as I don't think these motors are all that loud anyway. Still need to read and research this some more before I make my final decision. I am also hoping to get the car dechromed in the next couple of weeks but overall will be keeping external mods to a minimum for that sleeper effect lol.

That pretty much brings things to to date. I will get some pictures up as and when parts arrive and I get them fitted to the motor

Thanks for dropping in!

Darth Niloc

[Silver Streek]

You don't have to delete the DPF to make good power, you can leave it fitted.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Silver Streek

You don't have to delete the DPF to make good power, you can leave it fitted.

+1

Sounds like you really need to talk to bw chiptune...

[Darth Niloc]

Originally Posted by Silver Streek

You don't have to delete the DPF to make good power, you can leave it fitted.

Surely deleting the DPF has always been part of the standard tuning path for this engine? Do you have any more info as the DPF delete I ordered is arriving today....

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

+1

Sounds like you really need to talk to bw chiptune...

I did try and sort something with them when I first got the motor but I'm in Northern Ireland and it was impossible to make it work without me having to travel. I am happy to let this new guy have a look as he has been around for a while and seems to know his stuff. He has plenty of positive reviews online too which is always a good thing.

The parts are due to start arriving today so hopefully I can get everything installed and get the motor setup and mapped sometime next week. I will keep you posted.

Thanks,
Darth Niloc

[Silver Streek]

Originally Posted by Darth Niloc

Surely deleting the DPF has always been part of the standard tuning path for this engine? Do you have any more info as the DPF delete I ordered is arriving today

It tends to be the less technically capable tuners who advise you to remove the DPF, the guys that really know their stuff will leave it on. I have seen BWChiptine post his rolling road graphs showing around 290 BHP on a 330d with the DPF still fitted. Abviously all these numbers are subjective as all rolling roads will read slightly differently and if they have been calibrated properly.

In the UK it's illegal and an MOT fail if you remove it. Also your car will smell pretty bad. Where I live there are loads of builders vans, and I seem to keep getting stuck behind the ones that have had their DPF removed and they stink, it makes you feel sick of you are stuck behind one for any length of time, especially in traffic.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Silver Streek

It tends to be the less technically capable tuners who advise you to remove the DPF, the guys that really know their stuff will leave it on. I have seen BWChiptine post his rolling road graphs showing around 290 BHP on a 330d with the DPF still fitted. Abviously all these numbers are subjective as all rolling roads will read slightly differently and if they have been calibrated properly.

In the UK it's illegal and an MOT fail if you remove it. Also your car will smell pretty bad. Where I live there are loads of builders vans, and I seem to keep getting stuck behind the ones that have had their DPF removed and they stink, it makes you feel sick of you are stuck behind one for any length of time, especially in traffic.

+1 again.

At these power levels, the restriction of the DPF isn't an issue. Sure, removing it will yeild an extra couple of hp, but that's really not worth it for the MOT hassle and stinking out the planet. I hope your tuner can take that on board and make it work, and you can return the DPF delete without issue. Have you talked to darkside about their recommendations for the DPF delete? They have a fair amount of experience with tuning these engines...

[Darth Niloc]

Originally Posted by Silver Streek

It tends to be the less technically capable tuners who advise you to remove the DPF, the guys that really know their stuff will leave it on. I have seen BWChiptine post his rolling road graphs showing around 290 BHP on a 330d with the DPF still fitted. Abviously all these numbers are subjective as all rolling roads will read slightly differently and if they have been calibrated properly.

In the UK it's illegal and an MOT fail if you remove it. Also your car will smell pretty bad. Where I live there are loads of builders vans, and I seem to keep getting stuck behind the ones that have had their DPF removed and they stink, it makes you feel sick of you are stuck behind one for any length of time, especially in traffic.

Interesting you aren't the old person to have said this. I have never tuned a diesel before, its always been petrol and the advice then was always any restriction of any kind = bad. I've read many articles/guides/posts and have read through countless project build threads for 30d's and 35d's and all of them advocate removing the DPF. Wagner tuning and Ecotune both recommend it and even Darkside Developments who I personally rate as a top BMW tuner recommend removing the DPF and EGR as part of their stage one package.

Is it a case of BWChiptune getting good results with the DPF fitted but even better results if it was gone? I understand the legality of removing the DPF but I have been assured that it won't cause a problem with the MOT and it is something that I will end up spending £££ to repair/replace at some point. You have thrown me a curve ball late in the game as I thought I had it all figured out and decided on lol. The car is booked in for next week so I will speak to the tuner again and see what he thinks.

Thanks,
Darth Niloc

[Silver Streek]

Originally Posted by Darth Niloc

Interesting you aren't the old person to have said this. I have never tuned a diesel before, its always been petrol and the advice then was always any restriction of any kind = bad. I've read many articles/guides/posts and have read through countless project build threads for 30d's and 35d's and all of them advocate removing the DPF. Wagner tuning and Ecotune both recommend it and even Darkside Developments who I personally rate as a top BMW tuner recommend removing the DPF and EGR as part of their stage one package.

Is it a case of BWChiptune getting good results with the DPF fitted but even better results if it was gone? I understand the legality of removing the DPF but I have been assured that it won't cause a problem with the MOT and it is something that I will end up spending £££ to repair/replace at some point. You have thrown me a curve ball late in the game as I thought I had it all figured out and decided on lol. The car is booked in for next week so I will speak to the tuner again and see what he thinks.

Thanks,
Darth Niloc

I too have heard good things about Dark side and seen many of their YouTube vids. I dare say even they would get good results while retaining the DPF in place.

It's one thing for your tuner and others to say it won't cause a problem with the MOT, but if you take it somewhere and they see any visible smoke when they test it a higher rpm they have to fail it. Of course some MOT people are more friendly than others so it's pot luck. Tuners will tell you that you won't get any smoke without a DPF, this is just plain wrong/impossible they all smoke, the difference is how much they smoke. A good tuner will be able to tune it to produce less smoke but never zero smoke. After all by tuning you are adding in more fuel (the source of the power) and air, but the fuel ratio will be higher hence you will always get smoke especially when you put your foot down.

All these people saying my car doesn't smoke when I boot it, may not see it in their rear view mirror, but the person following them will certainly see it. The DPF is the thing that removes the soot, without it there is nothing to stop the soot exiting the exhaust hence the smoke. This is what the MOT guys should be looking out for.

Of course it is your car and your choice whether to keep or remove the DPF. Were not hear to vilify you for removing it.

I think the general consensus is that if you are after up to 300 horses you can leave the DPF in place, above this when you are looking at larger injectors and hybrid turbos etc then this is when the DPF becomes a hinderance.

Maybe have a chat with the guys at Darkside and any other reputable tuners the guys on here may suggest before you go ahead with your plans.

[Tambohamilton]

Removing the DPF will 100% be a problem for the MOT. Any sign of tampering with or removing the DPF is an immediate fail, regardless of smoke/no smoke... Unless you have a friendly tester.

I think the vast majority of people recommend removing it because that will mask upstream issues; that is, having a DPF quickly highlights if there are any issues with how the engine is tuned or running (producing too much soot). Also it does remove some exhaust restriction, which helps with power levels, but it's not actually a problem until you're north of 300hp (or something to that effect).

I really like darkside, but they do seem to have quite a few issues with their 330d...doesn't fill me with confidence, though I really appreciate their candour.

I've never heard of anyone having issues with a BW tune, though I have seen folk accusing him of jumping on any naysayers. YMMV. Every other tuner I've always heard mixed reviews in some proportion.

[Darth Niloc]

Originally Posted by Silver Streek

I too have heard good things about Dark side and seen many of their YouTube vids. I dare say even they would get good results while retaining the DPF in place.

It's one thing for your tuner and others to say it won't cause a problem with the MOT, but if you take it somewhere and they see any visible smoke when they test it a higher rpm they have to fail it. Of course some MOT people are more friendly than others so it's pot luck. Tuners will tell you that you won't get any smoke without a DPF, this is just plain wrong/impossible they all smoke, the difference is how much they smoke. A good tuner will be able to tune it to produce less smoke but never zero smoke. After all by tuning you are adding in more fuel (the source of the power) and air, but the fuel ratio will be higher hence you will always get smoke especially when you put your foot down.

All these people saying my car doesn't smoke when I boot it, may not see it in their rear view mirror, but the person following them will certainly see it. The DPF is the thing that removes the soot, without it there is nothing to stop the soot exiting the exhaust hence the smoke. This is what the MOT guys should be looking out for.

Of course it is your car and your choice whether to keep or remove the DPF. Were not hear to vilify you for removing it.

I think the general consensus is that if you are after up to 300 horses you can leave the DPF in place, above this when you are looking at larger injectors and hybrid turbos etc then this is when the DPF becomes a hinderance.

Maybe have a chat with the guys at Darkside and any other reputable tuners the guys on here may suggest before you go ahead with your plans.

I had the same concerns whenever the tuner mentioned removing the DPF and I spoke to him at length about black smoke and the MOT. He assured me that there would be no issues with the MOT and any of his clients who have had DPF deletes and remaps by him never had any issues with MOT tests.

In support of that a mate of a mate has a tuned 535d. He runs hybrid turbos and various other tweaks I can't remember but I confirmed recently that he also has removed his DPF and says he has never had an issue with the MOT. I dunno, maybe the rules are different over here for MOT's compared to the mainland? In fact I know they are different as we have dedicated MOT test centres over here but the specifics of the test itself I don't know.

Everything you said is correct though and it stands to reason that the motor will produce black smoke if there is no filter in place to capture it. I will speak to the tuner again and see what he says. I made it very clear during our conversation what I wanted and he still recommended I purchase the DPF delete kit. I can't question his motives either as it's not like I was buying it from him or anything so he wasn't trying to push for the sale.

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Removing the DPF will 100% be a problem for the MOT. Any sign of tampering with or removing the DPF is an immediate fail, regardless of smoke/no smoke... Unless you have a friendly tester.

I think the vast majority of people recommend removing it because that will mask upstream issues; that is, having a DPF quickly highlights if there are any issues with how the engine is tuned or running (producing too much soot). Also it does remove some exhaust restriction, which helps with power levels, but it's not actually a problem until you're north of 300hp (or something to that effect).

I really like darkside, but they do seem to have quite a few issues with their 330d...doesn't fill me with confidence, though I really appreciate their candour.

I've never heard of anyone having issues with a BW tune, though I have seen folk accusing him of jumping on any naysayers. YMMV. Every other tuner I've always heard mixed reviews in some proportion.

I think they had issues from pushing the last motor way too hard. It could rev to over 10k rpm?! Their parts seem to be top class though and I have no plans to modify the engine any further than what I've already purchased. I have a strong bias towards reliability over performance with this build, even the FMIC I have purchased was decided on because of the promise of lower inlet temps and the added cooling it provides. The increase in performance is very much an added bonus.

Unfortunately like I said before, I have no way of making it work with BW other than coming across on the ferry and driving there, staying overnight, etc. It just isn't handy at all and adds up to a very expensive tune! This new guy I have found has lots of great reviews online and has been in business for nearly 20 years now. What's more he is local and was the first of all the tuners I spoke to locally to fill me with any form of confidence so I feel content enough to let him work on the motor. As I said above I will discuss the DPF with him again as if I don't need it, the £300 it cost me can go towards the new brakes or suspension mods I am planning

Thanks for the input and advice from both of you. I will let you know what he says once I have spoken to him and how we are going to proceed.

[Silver Streek]

No worries, good luck with it, I hope you get the result you are after. Please do keep us updated, it's good to hear the various mods people have on the go and more importantly how they are going after the work is complete and settled in.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Darth Niloc

I had the same concerns whenever the tuner mentioned removing the DPF and I spoke to him at length about black smoke and the MOT. He assured me that there would be no issues with the MOT and any of his clients who have had DPF deletes and remaps by him never had any issues with MOT tests.

In support of that a mate of a mate has a tuned 535d. He runs hybrid turbos and various other tweaks I can't remember but I confirmed recently that he also has removed his DPF and says he has never had an issue with the MOT. I dunno, maybe the rules are different over here for MOT's compared to the mainland? In fact I know they are different as we have dedicated MOT test centres over here but the specifics of the test itself I don't know.

Everything you said is correct though and it stands to reason that the motor will produce black smoke if there is no filter in place to capture it. I will speak to the tuner again and see what he says. I made it very clear during our conversation what I wanted and he still recommended I purchase the DPF delete kit. I can't question his motives either as it's not like I was buying it from him or anything so he wasn't trying to push for the sale.



I think they had issues from pushing the last motor way too hard. It could rev to over 10k rpm?! Their parts seem to be top class though and I have no plans to modify the engine any further than what I've already purchased. I have a strong bias towards reliability over performance with this build, even the FMIC I have purchased was decided on because of the promise of lower inlet temps and the added cooling it provides. The increase in performance is very much an added bonus.

Unfortunately like I said before, I have no way of making it work with BW other than coming across on the ferry and driving there, staying overnight, etc. It just isn't handy at all and adds up to a very expensive tune! This new guy I have found has lots of great reviews online and has been in business for nearly 20 years now. What's more he is local and was the first of all the tuners I spoke to locally to fill me with any form of confidence so I feel content enough to let him work on the motor. As I said above I will discuss the DPF with him again as if I don't need it, the £300 it cost me can go towards the new brakes or suspension mods I am planning

Thanks for the input and advice from both of you. I will let you know what he says once I have spoken to him and how we are going to proceed.

True, maybe regs in NI are different...I'm not sure. Over here and sign of tampering/removal, or any visible smoke at any rpm and it's a straight fail.

Darksides 330d only did 10k rpm when it ran away, due to a hole in a piston. I think its normal redline is maybe 5200? They don't actually run a crazy amount of power from it, due to the regs of the class they race it in... I think high 200s like you're aiming for. Track work is a different world from road though, due to being WOT and high revs for way more time.

Looking forward to seeing how you get on

[rasa bmw]

https://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/threa...6#post-3262553

[dave330]

my 330d was tuned by bw chiptune with the dpf still in place and it's making as much power as i've seen any other tuner get from one so don't see the point in removing it plus it's not cool blowing smoke everywhere

[Darth Niloc]

Cheers for the replies lads. I've spent the entire weekend reading up on DPF's and browsing through an entire new forum (cheers Rasa). I almost had my mind made up to keep it and tune around it when found this article;

https://avontuning.co.uk/blog/dpf-re...t-pass-or-fail

The part that caught my eye when discussing MOT's;

Why is the fail mark so high? Well this is quite simple, the fail mark is not on a per vehicle basis, i.e. every turbocharged diesel vehicle manufactured before July 2008 has the same fail mark. Therefore modern turbo diesel cars with DPF’s fitted from factory have the same fail mark as turbo diesels manufactured in the late 90’s without DPF’s. For example:

A 2007 BMW 530d which has a DPF fitted from factory is subject to the same test conditions as a 1999 BMW 530d which does not have a DPF fitted from factory.

Given that my motor is a 2006 then the above would apply. Now I'm back to not being sure what to do Part of me wants to keep it in for environmental and legal reasons but the other part of me wants it gone for power and future replacement cost reasons.

Still haven't got speaking to the new tuner as he was off on holiday last week but should be back tomorrow. I already know what he is going to say as he was very much for it, assured me there wouldn't be black smoke and that the MOT wouldn't be a problem. I don't know what to do but the car is booked in for next week so I need to make up my mind and soon!

Thanks,
Darth Niloc

[Tambohamilton]

From a quick Google...

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-36915665.html

Vehicles will get a “major” fault if the MOT tester can see smoke coming from the exhaust or finds evidence that the DPF has been tampered with.

[dave330]

my mot tester told me that diesels fitted with a DPF from factory that they must not show any visible signs of smoke of its a fail, there is so much conflicting information out there so not sure what to believe, might be worth speaking to jason @ BWchiptune he really knows his stuff especially bmw's

[Tambohamilton]

Probably best to talk to your MOT test station? They *should* know what the deal is

[Darth Niloc]

Originally Posted by dave330

my mot tester told me that diesels fitted with a DPF from factory that they must not show any visible signs of smoke of its a fail, there is so much conflicting information out there so not sure what to believe, might be worth speaking to jason @ BWchiptune he really knows his stuff especially bmw's

I spent hours over the weekend reading different articles and forum posts and I ended up more confused than ever. Like you said so much conflicting information. Plenty of success stories too with plenty of people saying they passed the test with no DPF. I did speak to Jason previously but I'd need a trip to the mainland for him to work on the motor which just isn't viable right now unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Probably best to talk to your MOT test station? They *should* know what the deal is

I dunno. Most of them in my experience are jobsworth ignorant c*nts who will toe the government policy. Don't forget the MOT testers are civil servants over here so are 100% by the book.

I ​got speaking to the new tuner this morning. As I thought he assured me that I have nothing to worry about. He said that he removes DPF's from several motors a week and none of them have ever failed an MOT. He said the MOT guys can't see anything with the under chassis casing and they aren't allowed to remove anything or interfere with the motor in anyway to check. He assured me that there would be no black smoke with his tune and no issues with the MOT smoke test.

So more confused now than ever My appointment is at the weekend so I have until then to decide. Despite the tramua the DPF decision is causing me at present I am very excited to see what impact the FMIC and the new map has on the car.

Thanks,
Darth Niloc

[Tambohamilton]

The dpf on my M57 is clearly visible without doing anything other than opening the bonnet. A simple visual inspection would yield results. This was basically my reason for saying ask the MOT folk; they'll give you the straight government answer as to what they're checking for (or not). If they say we only look for smoke, crack on. If they say we check the external appearance of the dpf for evidence of tampering...maybe it needs more thought. Or maybe your tuner can actually do a good job with the dpf in place, and you can get a good tune without the emissions/smell...

But do as you see fit.