No start but turns over

WreckerX5d · 02-05-2016, 03:56 PM

Something just like that. The car still has the exact symptoms though of no start

BB_cuda · 02-08-2016, 11:54 AM

When you told us you weren't getting power to pump (and looking at module output I presume), I was wondering if you did that voltage check with only car awake or actual cranking? I only saw 12v output on the module when cranking. Since you now have told us that you changed the module and still no start, either pump not running (which I don't think is the case) or problems downstream.

On the message you're getting now, perhaps this is related to new module and proper coding (adaptations reset?) needs to happen to introduce the new module to the car. IDK. I say follow Heather's idea. Put old module back on and determine if you're getting diesel flowing to engine compartment. As a first step, see if message goes away when you put old module back on.

I remember how car problem's were especially a PITA when I was a college student. Hang in there with school and good luck with the D.

davegris · 02-08-2016, 02:05 PM

I ended up having the to replace the fuel pump on my car. I had the same symptoms... as in the car would turn over but never actually start running.

Was very much an intermittent problem too... happened 2 or 3 times when I was actually at the pump getting fuel... got back in and would not crank up.

Happened again in my garage at home a few times too. Funny thing was it seemed to be somehow "delayed" as in I could let it sit for a few minutes (like 10 or 15) and come back and it would crank right up like nothing ever happened.

Finally got to where it sat in my garage and would never crank after that. I had to call a tow truck to get it taken to my indy who confirmed fuel pump was issue.

Hoooper · 02-08-2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davegris

I ended up having the to replace the fuel pump on my car. I had the same symptoms... as in the car would turn over but never actually start running.

Was very much an intermittent problem too... happened 2 or 3 times when I was actually at the pump getting fuel... got back in and would not crank up.

Happened again in my garage at home a few times too. Funny thing was it seemed to be somehow "delayed" as in I could let it sit for a few minutes (like 10 or 15) and come back and it would crank right up like nothing ever happened.

Finally got to where it sat in my garage and would never crank after that. I had to call a tow truck to get it taken to my indy who confirmed fuel pump was issue.

Was that the high pressure pump or the low pressure pump?

WreckerX5d · 02-08-2016, 02:55 PM

Finally got around to testing power to the pump with a new module, still no luck. Been trying to get my coding software up and running so after that I'll try again.

I have a new pump on order, should I just replace it anyway? Think it might be a good idea to since I'm at 120k miles.

When I have time off, it's snowing, when I dont, it's 55 degrees and sunny. Just my luck lol.

Nadir Point · 02-09-2016, 08:46 AM

The CP3 can pull fuel on it's own and some diesel CP3 apps don't even have/need lift pumps. That's the reason for the iDrive alert wording - they expect it to continue running marginally with a bad lift in most cases. It is also why lift pump-related issues can be tricky to diagnose. The first, best way to determine what's going on in questionable fuel situations is like Heather said earlier: confirm the LP is actually pumping. Or not.

WreckerX5d · 02-09-2016, 11:05 AM

No fuel coming out of the quick connection. I replaced the pump, still no luck.

335dsleeper · 02-09-2016, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

No fuel coming out of the quick connection. I replaced the pump, still no luck.

bypass the fuel pump relay. Make a jumper wire and connect slot 30 to slot 87. If you get fuel, you need a relay.

WreckerX5d · 02-09-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

No fuel coming out of the quick connection. I replaced the pump, still no luck.

bypass the fuel pump relay. Make a jumper wire and connect slot 30 to slot 87. If you get fuel, you need a relay.

What's the relay? That module behind the rear passenger seat thing? If it's that then I replaced that already. If there's another relay please tell me the location.

BB_cuda · 02-09-2016, 01:53 PM

I wished you hadn't jumped to changing the lifting pump. Either the relay (the one behind right rear seat) isn't getting power sent to it or the fuel pump connector that plugs into it could have the screwed up contacts.

Did you stick anything (such as multimeter probes) in the relay end of the fuel pump electric harness? I did and opened up the female contacts too much where power was no longer going through the connector. I'm talking about wiring between module and pump.

The brute force way is to run 12V power directly to the lifting pump's pins (be damn careful about polarity, striped wire is positive) and see if fuel comes out of that quick connect. I used a 12V out of an older Honda accord I have. I tried in line fusses but they blew in a matter of anywhere from 4 seconds (2 amp slow blow) to 12 seconds(4 amp slow blow). Eventually ran power direct and burped air from system.

Uber, the picture I posted (post #22) from my nav screen was complaining about lifting pump. My car wouldn't start either. CP3 couldn't do it by itself is my point.

WreckerX5d · 02-09-2016, 02:09 PM

I'll hook up my DC power supply to the pump and see. I look at replacing the pump as a PM now since I'm at 120k miles already.

EDIT: Pump works as intended. My DC PSU only does 5amps of current so that wasn't enough to get it really going but I managed to have it move.

BB_cuda · 02-09-2016, 04:36 PM

This explains why my power supply couldn't do it either. It's limited to 5amps too. Battery got'er done

davegris · 02-11-2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Was that the high pressure pump or the low pressure pump?

Sorry for the late reply... mine was the lift pump in the tank.

WreckerX5d · 02-12-2016, 04:02 PM

I ended up turning the car into the dealership. They fixed the problem (somewhat). It was indeed the ECU not talking to the module to send power to the fuel pump. Could've saved myself $600 in parts, but I have an updated version and a new FP so all is not lost.

Another occurrence they came across. If Bob can answer this issue. I did mention that I had a tune that deleted everything, so don't touch the DME (which they didn't, they unplugged it). The car didn't start again but was giving a SCR fault/leveling sensor failure (reason I got the tune

). They "fixed" my drained tank "issue", refilled the Urea tank and the car started again (then realized my tank was leaking, lol). Would you think I should send down my DDE back to BPC to have them reflash it just in case? Or go on my merry way and hope for the best. The car doesn't pull any SCR codes and runs as intended.

335dsleeper · 02-12-2016, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

I ended up turning the car into the dealership. They fixed the problem (somewhat). It was indeed the ECU not talking to the module to send power to the fuel pump. Could've saved myself $600 in parts, but I have an updated version and a new FP so all is not lost.

Another occurrence they came across. If Bob can answer this issue. I did mention that I had a tune that deleted everything, so don't touch the DME (which they didn't, they unplugged it). The car didn't start again but was giving a SCR fault/leveling sensor failure (reason I got the tune

). They "fixed" my drained tank "issue", refilled the Urea tank and the car started again (then realized my tank was leaking, lol). Would you think I should send down my DDE back to BPC to have them reflash it just in case? Or go on my merry way and hope for the best. The car doesn't pull any SCR codes and runs as intended.

Did they tell you why it wasn't communicating?

rulonger · 02-12-2016, 04:12 PM

That brings up an issue for me. I can change my oil and change my brakes, but am hesitant with some other more in-depth issues / troubleshooting. If I have an electrical issue as Wrecker did, I would likely take the car to the dealership. The D is my daily and I cannot be without the car for a prolonged period.

How do I go about letting the dealership know I have a tune? What can I do to avoid a trip to the dealership followed by a trip to BPC because the dealership over-wrote some code?

WreckerX5d · 02-12-2016, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335dsleeper

Did they tell you why it wasn't communicating?

I don't believe they did. I can call them and ask if you want me to.

335dsleeper · 02-12-2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

I don't believe they did. I can call them and ask if you want me to.

Please. It would be great to know if any of us experience a smilier problem in the future.

Thanks!

BEWWWM · 02-12-2016, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

I don't believe they did. I can call them and ask if you want me to.

That would be great to know as i'm about to take my car to an indy to diagnose a no start after installing a tuned DDE.

WreckerX5d · 02-12-2016, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Seems there maybe two issues, Wrecker335d was just the tank was empty and filling it got the car started and BEWWWM is a checksum. If you guys have our stage II tune, please let me know if you have the tank filled with water, urea or if its empty, Thank you.

Mines full with Urea now. I won't drain it yet.

WreckerX5d · 02-12-2016, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

Mines full with Urea now. I won't drain it yet.

Did you have the count down light before you sent the DDE to us?

Yes I dropped it off with countdown of 8 or 900 miles. This mileage coincides with about the amount I drove after the flash was done.

WreckerX5d · 02-12-2016, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

Yes I dropped it off with countdown of 8 or 900 miles. This mileage coincides with about the amount I drove after the flash was done.

hmm, I was told by the banned one you went 1000 miles with out it in the tank correct? I have two 335D's at the shop now that im going to test, Im going to disconnect the sensors in the urea tank and see if it starts with the stageII tune. Also test my new checksum corrector

It's somewhere between 800-1500 miles. I stopped keeping track how many I really do. It's really a guess.

02-05-2016, 03:56 PM	#23
WreckerX5d Warrant Officer 375 Rep 1,341 Posts Drives: Deezul Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (4)	Something just like that. The car still has the exact symptoms though of no start __________________ Deleted, ATM I/C and tuned by B.R.R.
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02-08-2016, 11:54 AM	#24
BB_cuda Brigadier General 765 Rep 3,556 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	When you told us you weren't getting power to pump (and looking at module output I presume), I was wondering if you did that voltage check with only car awake or actual cranking? I only saw 12v output on the module when cranking. Since you now have told us that you changed the module and still no start, either pump not running (which I don't think is the case) or problems downstream. On the message you're getting now, perhaps this is related to new module and proper coding (adaptations reset?) needs to happen to introduce the new module to the car. IDK. I say follow Heather's idea. Put old module back on and determine if you're getting diesel flowing to engine compartment. As a first step, see if message goes away when you put old module back on. I remember how car problem's were especially a PITA when I was a college student. Hang in there with school and good luck with the D.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-08-2016, 02:05 PM	#25
davegris Master and Commander 17 Rep 55 Posts Drives: 2010 335D Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA iTrader: (0)	Had same issue and symptoms I ended up having the to replace the fuel pump on my car. I had the same symptoms... as in the car would turn over but never actually start running. Was very much an intermittent problem too... happened 2 or 3 times when I was actually at the pump getting fuel... got back in and would not crank up. Happened again in my garage at home a few times too. Funny thing was it seemed to be somehow "delayed" as in I could let it sit for a few minutes (like 10 or 15) and come back and it would crank right up like nothing ever happened. Finally got to where it sat in my garage and would never crank after that. I had to call a tow truck to get it taken to my indy who confirmed fuel pump was issue.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-08-2016, 02:55 PM	#27
WreckerX5d Warrant Officer 375 Rep 1,341 Posts Drives: Deezul Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (4)	Finally got around to testing power to the pump with a new module, still no luck. Been trying to get my coding software up and running so after that I'll try again. I have a new pump on order, should I just replace it anyway? Think it might be a good idea to since I'm at 120k miles. When I have time off, it's snowing, when I dont, it's 55 degrees and sunny. Just my luck lol. __________________ Deleted, ATM I/C and tuned by B.R.R.
	Appreciate 1 Quote

02-09-2016, 08:46 AM	#28
Nadir Point Lieutenant 103 Rep 579 Posts Drives: Diesel Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: CO iTrader: (0)	The CP3 can pull fuel on it's own and some diesel CP3 apps don't even have/need lift pumps. That's the reason for the iDrive alert wording - they expect it to continue running marginally with a bad lift in most cases. It is also why lift pump-related issues can be tricky to diagnose. The first, best way to determine what's going on in questionable fuel situations is like Heather said earlier: confirm the LP is actually pumping. Or not.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2016, 11:05 AM	#29
WreckerX5d Warrant Officer 375 Rep 1,341 Posts Drives: Deezul Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (4)	No fuel coming out of the quick connection. I replaced the pump, still no luck. __________________ Deleted, ATM I/C and tuned by B.R.R.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2016, 01:53 PM	#32
BB_cuda Brigadier General 765 Rep 3,556 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	I wished you hadn't jumped to changing the lifting pump. Either the relay (the one behind right rear seat) isn't getting power sent to it or the fuel pump connector that plugs into it could have the screwed up contacts. Did you stick anything (such as multimeter probes) in the relay end of the fuel pump electric harness? I did and opened up the female contacts too much where power was no longer going through the connector. I'm talking about wiring between module and pump. The brute force way is to run 12V power directly to the lifting pump's pins (be damn careful about polarity, striped wire is positive) and see if fuel comes out of that quick connect. I used a 12V out of an older Honda accord I have. I tried in line fusses but they blew in a matter of anywhere from 4 seconds (2 amp slow blow) to 12 seconds(4 amp slow blow). Eventually ran power direct and burped air from system. Uber, the picture I posted (post #22) from my nav screen was complaining about lifting pump. My car wouldn't start either. CP3 couldn't do it by itself is my point.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-09-2016, 02:09 PM	#33
WreckerX5d Warrant Officer 375 Rep 1,341 Posts Drives: Deezul Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (4)	I'll hook up my DC power supply to the pump and see. I look at replacing the pump as a PM now since I'm at 120k miles already. EDIT: Pump works as intended. My DC PSU only does 5amps of current so that wasn't enough to get it really going but I managed to have it move. __________________ Deleted, ATM I/C and tuned by B.R.R. Last edited by WreckerX5d; 02-09-2016 at 02:34 PM..
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02-09-2016, 04:36 PM	#34
BB_cuda Brigadier General 765 Rep 3,556 Posts Drives: 2011 335D Msport, 2013 X5D Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Clear Lake, Texas iTrader: (0)	This explains why my power supply couldn't do it either. It's limited to 5amps too. Battery got'er done
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02-12-2016, 04:02 PM	#36
WreckerX5d Warrant Officer 375 Rep 1,341 Posts Drives: Deezul Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (4)	I ended up turning the car into the dealership. They fixed the problem (somewhat). It was indeed the ECU not talking to the module to send power to the fuel pump. Could've saved myself $600 in parts, but I have an updated version and a new FP so all is not lost. Another occurrence they came across. If Bob can answer this issue. I did mention that I had a tune that deleted everything, so don't touch the DME (which they didn't, they unplugged it). The car didn't start again but was giving a SCR fault/leveling sensor failure (reason I got the tune ). They "fixed" my drained tank "issue", refilled the Urea tank and the car started again (then realized my tank was leaking, lol). Would you think I should send down my DDE back to BPC to have them reflash it just in case? Or go on my merry way and hope for the best. The car doesn't pull any SCR codes and runs as intended. __________________ Deleted, ATM I/C and tuned by B.R.R.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

02-12-2016, 04:12 PM	#38
rulonger Lieutenant 111 Rep 529 Posts Drives: 2011 335d E90 & 2010 328i E91 Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	That brings up an issue for me. I can change my oil and change my brakes, but am hesitant with some other more in-depth issues / troubleshooting. If I have an electrical issue as Wrecker did, I would likely take the car to the dealership. The D is my daily and I cannot be without the car for a prolonged period. How do I go about letting the dealership know I have a tune? What can I do to avoid a trip to the dealership followed by a trip to BPC because the dealership over-wrote some code? __________________ 2011 335d Deep Sea Blue on Beige (stock except for the cheap ass wheels from PO) 2010 328i Tasman Green on Saddle (stock)
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