[doughboy]

Only as a last resort though, probably OEM DMF plus something else, prob not spec.

If the new oil cuts the vibes to below 1500rpm I might live with it, but 1500-2000 is too problematic.

I've had a chat with Kevin Bird and he had tried numerous things on his 135i, all problematic with a SMFW. He also knew about supposed high speed - high power DMF vibrations - "the cattle grid effect" he called it.

Well his opinion is that noise is prop/diff/rear subframe related (due to frequency) and nothing to do with the DMF.

He has a good opinion of Helix Motorsport so I'm speaking with Terry at Helix about some options.

They can supply modified SACHS clutches, to order, to work with OE flywheels or others.

I want to keep mine more 'road friendly' so I've given him figures of 500bhp / 500lbft to work with and see what he says.

[idnan]

Strange he says that as I've got a completely different prop/diff combo compared to you. Also, I found that particular vibration went away with the SMF. Fingers crossed for your oil change though as I really CBA with all the rattling and vibration. What makes me the most angry is that I mentioned this particular problem to Spec and they assured me that the Steel SMFW was far better than the alu one.

[doughboy]

Of course, you have the M3 subframe...

What have you bought? The OE compatible Steel SMFW or the full kit with non-SAC clutch like mine?

The OE compatible ones are heavier by a few pounds.

I have done a couple of nearly WOT 4th gear pulls on map 2, and it was smooth as anything.

Don't get me wrong, when driving I love the clutch, the direct feel, positive engagement, the quicker rev matching (i'm still over blipping).

And also it sounds great at speed, there's and added 'growl' to the car accelerating in 3rd / 4th which I assume is a transmission noise - but a good noise.

But the low rattle also resonates the car so you get a mass of other rattles (interior etc) "buzzing" around your ears.

With the window open it sounds like the car is missing all its oil!

[idnan]

I went for non-SAC like yourself but mine is the stage 3+, although I doubt that makes much of a difference. Do you think the noise will change once the clutch has broken in fully?

You can imagine how bad that resonance was in my car with brand new engine mounts (driver's side 335is one which is stiffer), UUC stiffer gearbox mounts and obviously the alu flywheel with unsprung clutch.

I have been in a Peugeot with a helix paddle clutch and the pedal was incredibly heavy. It is interesting to see how heavy their 335i one is.

[doughboy]

Wow - bet your eyes were popping out with that lot!

Looking at the part numbers the only difference between stage 2+ and stage 3+ is the friction disc.

I have the UUC stiff gearbox mounts too, do you think they will make a lot of difference to the noise? I might change them out if so.

Oh forgot, we had to put the friction disc in backwards as it seemd to be labelled wrong.

The OE clutch disc centre is offset towards the gearbox, but the SPEC one (if you follow the labelling) is offset towards the flywheel, this wouldn't fit.

What is yours like? I'm still waiting for a reply from SPEC.

[idnan]

Mine is still bolted up as it was sent by spec. I'll take it apart tonight and I'll have a look at it.

If you don't mind I'll post that photo up on another forum that spec are quite active on.

[doughboy]

Great, thanks, I'm getting no response by email.

Is that the bi##erb##st forum??

I had seen another post on there about a disc being made up back to front, they sent out a new one in that particular case.

[idnan]

Yep I've posted it there and will let you know their response.

[doughboy]

Great thanks.

I was a bit unsure when we reversed it, but the guys at Woods were adamant it wouldn't fit.

With the gearbox on the floor, we held the pressure plate in position pressed into the thrust bearing (which meant it was further back than it would normally be) then tried to put the disc in position.

But with the centre offset towards the flywheel it would only go partly on the input splines before contacing the pressure plate, so it would never seat fully on the splines.

Flipped it round, and it went fully on to the splines with the offset portion tucked in behind the pressure plate 'dome' - just like the OE friction plate.

[idnan]

According to a chap on BB, he put it in as marked on the clutch disc

[phil200tdi]

So Idnan is your new Steel SMFW in the car now?

Is it noticably quieter than the Ali FW?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by idnan

According to a chap on BB, he put it in as marked on the clutch disc

Maybe Woods were wrong?

They couldn't get the box back on first try, it just wouldn't push up to the crank case by about 10mm, but the splines were part in as the box output was locked.

So we dropped it off, took the clutch off and offered it all up in bits, when we noticed the offset issue.

They reversed the disc and tried again, it was very stiff to get the box on, they had to use the main bolts to wind it gently home the last 10mm, but it went on, the splines are tight as heck.

Need confirmation whether its ok from SPEC as the 6 puck side is on the pressure plate rather than the flywheel side, maybe reverse it tomorrow, but they'll have no box securing bolts in.....

[idnan]

Have a look over there, he said he queried it with Spec and they said it was correct.

Here's a pic of another one:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...pse310db46.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...pscb8a2bb9.jpg

Looks like the flywheel is machined to take the part which sticks out further

My car was towed to the garage before I had the chance to check.

[doughboy]

Yes, I'm sure it may have been our mistake, it fits both ways, but in future I'd want it fitted the correct way (SPEC way). So follow their guidance I'd say.

Anyway, there was a mix up at Woods this morning, no oil ready! So we just removed the UUC gearbox rear mounts and put back the OE ones - that made a significant reduction to low rev gear noise and vibrations INSIDE the car - so ditch those mounts for sure.

After much consideration, and the valued opinions of the guys at Woods, the SPEC SMFW & clutch is not going to work for ME at this TIME. It's a great clutch, but the family use of my car (and the missus uses it) means its just no good. It's a mod too far for the current role of the car.

When the missues has the new family wagon 4x4 next year, then maybe, but not now when the tourer is still our main family car

After 490 miles bedding in, the main downsides are:

1) Pedal too heavy for slow traffic use, after about 10 or 20 seconds holding it your leg starts to ache, no way missus could use it. We're taking it to cornwall on holiday - i'll be crippled after that..
2) Engagement not good for gentle use, it vibrates and grabs in stop start traffic, making even more noises, getting worse when hotter.
3) Gear noise fine when above 2K, but the car looses it main cruising point - lugging around at 1000+ rpm in gear when you want to with kids sleeping in the back, or just following traffic pottering.

It's a great clutch - solid, quick changing, feels good, great even when cracking on, quick revving - if I was in a different mode of use with the car its perfect.

If I go for new turbos and silly BHP in the future then it will go back on for sure (after the missus stops using it)

For now Woods can get a new LUK OE DMF for £210+VAT!!!!! and the full LUK OE clutch, plate & thrust bearing for £185+VAT

So its going back to standard next Friday......

My OE clutch had done 25K+ tuned before the first hint of slip, 30K tuned (43K total) until it came out and it was 3/4 worn down on the adjusters, so even if the new one only lasts 20K - that's 4 years at my current mileage.

[idnan]

Totally understand your situation. Even when I do have the option of two cars, I seem to always jump in the 335i. My commute isn't too long and I've managed with less road friendly vehicles in the past.

I'll ditch the UUC mounts as soon as I can get some new OEM ones. I'm interested to see how if the heavier oil does make a difference. I was actually thinking of adding a small amount of sound deadening to the transmission tunnel under the centre console. I'm hoping it might reduce the noise and vibration slightly. Unfortunately going back to the OEM clutch and DMFW is simply not an option for me.

[doughboy]

If it was just my car for me to drive mainly on my own (which it would be if the missues had a decent sized motor) then I'd keep the clutch.

I think the oil will help a lot, especially with the light load on/off throttle rattles, but I didn't want to spend another £100 when in reality the pedal stiffness and engagement judder is an issue that will never go away, and those are major negatives for me, rattles aside.

At the low price for the OEM units, that'll do me for a while, but if I want to go further with power like you then compromises have to be made.

I'll try to sell the SPEC unit, but if not, it'll be there to go back on with the RBs or whatever when the time comes.....

[phil200tdi]

Doughboy - sorry to hear you are not happy.

Pm me how much you'd want to sell the Clutch and FW for. I cant make any promises but mine is less of a family wagon than yours so it may actually work for me...

The price of the OEM DMFW is so low that it I will otherwise go this route and mate it up to an OEM fit Spec 2+.. Apparently these hold the stock turbo power well enough.

[doughboy]

SPEC say the pedal is heavier still on their OE FW compatible pressure plates than on the non-SAC kits, something to be aware of if going for that combo.

[phil200tdi]

I'm not too worried about pedal pressure, it unlikely to be as bad as my 1988 Landrover Defender!

Do you have a modified Clutch Delay Valve? I wonder if this might soften the engagement shuddering? Mine is still OEM!

[doughboy]

No I have the modded CDV.

Reading about Kevlar clutches, they are a bit grabby on light load, but they glaze easily making it worse and need to be thrashed to clean them up. I tried that today and it seemed to work a little, but again, not family friendly.....

I also managed to kangaroo the car - i've not done that it 20 years, it must have looked hilarious. The lock up is vicious when you get it wrong.

I've also developed what feels like my first misfire problem, joy.

All 2013 budget blown for wheels and tyres, now a misfire, i'll get the BT lead on it tomorrow.

[idnan]

My Spec stage 3+ and steel single mass flywheel went in today. First of all, my HPF had welded itself to the flywheel but it was only a small transfer of material. I could have easily had the flywheel skimmed and continued to use it but that would be utterly pointless.

Anyway, this is the third uprated clutch I've used (ACT Street and HPF Stg 2 previously) and it easily is the lightest out of the 3. There is sometimes small amounts of judder when pulling off but that is more likely due to the fact I've been using an auto for the last 3 weeks. In that regard it is much better than the HPF which was a nightmare to pull off normally without huge amounts of revs.

I changed to the UUC cocktail of gearbox oil whilst the box was out of the car so I can't compare the steel flywheel directly to the alu one. However the chatter on idle has been reduced significantly. But, the gear rattle under 2200rpms is still there and pretty much exactly the same as the aluminium one.

I put the clutch disc in the way that was marked by Spec and it went in perfectly first time, it slid on with ease. I only had one helper so we put the box on a set of modified axle stands on top of a transmission jack with the subframe dropped slightly and lined it up. Unfortunately though it seems I might have damaged the gearbox when the clutch went as I was forced to move the car by starting it in gear and stalling it to stop. First and reverse are a bit harder to select now, it sounds strange but the gates aren't as defined as they used to be. All the other gears require moving the gearknob a couple of cm's but 1st and revers are half that. Maybe I've created a new short shift

Anyway I'll see how it goes and decide if I'm going to change the box or not.

[doughboy]

Good job Idnan, glad it's gone in ok, hope your box isn't knackered.

Is the low rev rattle just the same as with the ally unit? Replacing the stiff rear box mounts should help a lot, it did with mine.

I'm still changing mine out on Friday, but now it's bedded in I've been giving it some beans and it's higlighted what I though was a misfire WOT (not been able to go WOT for ages with slipping clutch previously).

Changed the plugs, which were overdue anyway, its a sudden drop in power and boost above 5K when hot, but no misfire reported.

Codes are:

2C32 lambda probe infront of cat bank 2, trimming control
2C6A Lambda probe behind cat, muddled

I'm still running the BMS DPFix, so I need to whip that out and see if that changes anything.

any ideas?

The front lambdas are pretty pricey I think?