[Hotter]

Hi, my seat belt extender were disabled by previous owner, I want to enable them to try it out and see if they are so annoying or will I like them...

So I checked fuse, it seems to be ok (although owner said that he removed it and thats why extenders do no work):


I checked coding in NFRM module and it seems to be active also:
ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_BF
aktiv
ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_FA
aktiv


What else could make seat belt extenders to be off? What should I check?

[tcphoto]

I don’t know if there is an option in iDrive but I have seen it in the Carly for BMW app.

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by tcphoto

I don’t know if there is an option in iDrive but I have seen it in the Carly for BMW app.

Wont Carly just change coding values I listed above (ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_BF, ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_FA)?
Those values are not disabled in ncs expert, so seat belt extenders should work.

How should I diagnose further?

[atmosphericM]

My guess is that he removed a different fuse. I'd try to find that one. Are you sure the fuse your checking is the one for the butlers? There may be a few fuses associated with the system.

GL

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by atmosphericM

My guess is that he removed a different fuse. I'd try to find that one. Are you sure the fuse your checking is the one for the butlers? There may be a few fuses associated with the system.

GL

Which one could it be?

[hawkjr1]

Its fuse #30 but I see yours is in the fuse box. It is located on the right upper side of the fuse box on the second row. I pulled mine to stop it from working. It is a 10 amp fuse.

[Hotter]

So what could I check next? Remove side panels and check if seat belt extender motor is connected with wires?
Maybe there is a tutorial how to remove those side panels?

[catcher22]

Maybe pull the fuse to see if it's blown

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by catcher22

Maybe pull the fuse to see if it's blown

I checked it, its not blown

[Hotter]

Is there a way to check if seat belt extender motor is connected with wires without removing side panels?

[90c4]

This doesn't answer your question, but there's probably a good reason the previous owner disabled them. I disabled mine (with Carly) since they would never grab the belts and served no purpose

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by 90c4

This doesn't answer your question, but there's probably a good reason the previous owner disabled them. I disabled mine (with Carly) since they would never grab the belts and served no purpose

Then that means you gotta fix them!

[ryan stewart]

Not to derail but, extender? As in like the seatbelts in my car get longer?

[Hotter]

So I did disassemble side panel:

All cables are connected and it does not look that someone has messed with the cables inside.
I am out of ideas what could be stopping extenders to work, what could it be?
If they were disabled with Carly, Carly works the same as NCSExpert? it would dissable same (ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_BF, ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_FA)?

[GATORB8]

Originally Posted by ryan stewart

Not to derail but, extender? As in like the seatbelts in my car get longer?

E92/3 only. A device hands you the belt because the b pillar is further back.

[GATORB8]

Originally Posted by Hotter

So I did disassemble side panel:

All cables are connected and it does not look that someone has messed with the cables inside.
I am out of ideas what could be stopping extenders to work, what could it be?
If they were disabled with Carly, Carly works the same as NCSExpert? it would dissable same (ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_BF, ENABLE_GURTBRINGER_FA)?

I'll try to check the Bentley manual for a secondary circuit tonight, fuse 30 controlled mine (to replace the arms, pulling the fuse mid extension makes it easier).

Did you try replacing the fuse, or swapping with another 10 Amp, just in case? I assume no motor noise. Is there anything else not working on your car?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Hotter

So I did disassemble side panel...All cables are connected and it does not look that someone has messed with the cables inside...

TIS Circuit Diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tender/jaGpe2u

There are separate "Controllers" for each Belt Positioner Motor, and the FRM (A4011) controls/activates each controller. INPA or other BMW-specific software should be able to identify the area of the fault to some extent, connecting to the FRM (or either "Controller" if possible) and looking for faults. seeing what "Status" data is available, or using Activations (Steuern) to attempt to operate the motors, and see feedback readout.

If no such help available, simply use a multimeter to check the circuit, starting with the obvious: 12V+ at Pins#7 of Connector X777 (Left) & Connector X776 (Right), Continuity to Ground at the Brown wires, Pin#8 on Left, and Pins#1 & #8 on Right. Check for continuity of LIN BUS signal wire at Pins#3 of each Controller Connector to Pin#23 of Connector X14260 at the FRM. I imagine there is a way to check for LIN BUS signal in that wire with an ascilloscope, but that is beyond my level of electronics knowledge.

Also, test motor operation by "hotwiring" the motors by applying 12V+ and ground (reversing polarity for reverse operation) to pins #4 & #5 of the motor connectors X01267 & X01269.

A "sneaky" way to prevent motor operation would be to simply disconnect that White/Brown wire at Connector X14260 at the FRM. A STUPID/ sneaky way to do so would be to CUT that wire.

As this circuit diagram shows, F30 (10A) powers the motors, and you have already visually checked that fuse, but check for voltage at the controller connectors.

George

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by GATORB8

Did you try replacing the fuse, or swapping with another 10 Amp, just in case? I assume no motor noise. Is there anything else not working on your car?

Everything else seems to be working besides both seat-belt extenders. I checked fuse F30 with multi-meter and multi-meter is beeping so its all good. I still tried to swap it with fuse F16 which is also 10Amp. Still does not help, I don't hear any motor noise.
So I am confident that fuse F30 is ok.

[Hotter]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

TIS Circuit Diagram:
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...tender/jaGpe2u

There are separate "Controllers" for each Belt Positioner Motor, and the FRM (A4011) controls/activates each controller. INPA or other BMW-specific software should be able to identify the area of the fault to some extent, connecting to the FRM (or either "Controller" if possible) and looking for faults. seeing what "Status" data is available, or using Activations (Steuern) to attempt to operate the motors, and see feedback readout.

If no such help available, simply use a multimeter to check the circuit, starting with the obvious: 12V+ at Pins#7 of Connector X777 (Left) & Connector X776 (Right), Continuity to Ground at the Brown wires, Pin#8 on Left, and Pins#1 & #8 on Right. Check for continuity of LIN BUS signal wire at Pins#3 of each Controller Connector to Pin#23 of Connector X14260 at the FRM. I imagine there is a way to check for LIN BUS signal in that wire with an ascilloscope, but that is beyond my level of electronics knowledge.

Also, test motor operation by "hotwiring" the motors by applying 12V+ and ground (reversing polarity for reverse operation) to pins #4 & #5 of the motor connectors X01267 & X01269.

A "sneaky" way to prevent motor operation would be to simply disconnect that White/Brown wire at Connector X14260 at the FRM. A STUPID/ sneaky way to do so would be to CUT that wire.

As this circuit diagram shows, F30 (10A) powers the motors, and you have already visually checked that fuse, but check for voltage at the controller connectors.

George

Thanks for the information.
I will try diagnosing with INPA first, but I am not very familiar with it, I just learned NCSexpert coding. How do you connect to FRM module with INPA? (I would like to try activating motors with INPA if thats possible)



P.S. I tried use INPA but I am getting error:

[GATORB8]

I think 12+ at the motor pin 7s will be most telling, as the only other common circuit is the FRM CAN signal. Otherwise, motors and grounds are both isolated, so I would think it would be unlikely for both to go bad at once.

I believe I can scan the FRM through OBDII on my Foxwell, so I would guess you can scan it through INPA as if you were scanning any other module.

There is a known issue with FRM failure (at least in NA), I believe it normally manifests itself in window and lighting issues, though.

[Psyphertext]

Originally Posted by GATORB8

E92/3 only. A device hands you the belt because the b pillar is further back.

Weren't those called belt assist?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Hotter

...How do you connect to FRM module with INPA? (I would like to try activating motors with INPA if thats possible)
P.S. I tried use INPA but I am getting error:

On my 2007 E91, my FRM module is FRM 70 as opposed to FRM 87, and I have BOTH those choices in the Body/Karosserie Menu. Of course I do NOT have seat belt extenders, so can't say if you can operate them with Activations (Steuern) F6 once you connect to the FRM. If the motors are somehow electrically disconnected, or the LIN BUS signal to each is interrupted/ disconnected, then you will NOT be able to activate via INPA.

What you CAN do is use "Functional Jobs" which you can select as soon as you connect your cable & laptop to the OBD II socket with ignition on. Select E90 and the screen that appears has "Functional Jobs" in the Right-hand Listbox. Just tab and cursor to highlight 'Functional Jobs' and press Enter.

The next screen that appears is the Functional Jobs Menu or Hauptmenu. There are TWO (2) things you want to do in that Menu:
(1) F2 Identification lists ALL the modules in the vehicle and gives identification info for each (such as FRM 70, or FRM 87 for that module).

(2) Read Error Memory in ALL modules (F4 Error Memory or Feherspeicher -- F1 Read Error Memory or Fehlerspeicher Lesen). That step will list the Fault Code(s) found in ANY module in the vehicle, so even if you can't connect directly to the FRM due to missing files in your installation of INPA, you MAY be able to at least see if there is any Fault Code in the FRM using Functional Jobs.

F2, Identification, in Functional Jobs:
Highlight "Functional Jobs in right-hand listbox & press Enter;
In the next screen that appears, select "F2 (Identification)" and you will see a list of ALL Modules in the vehicle. If the list does NOT load fully (should be ~ 20 modules listed -- ~ 20 lines, each with module information) press F2 again -- several times if necessary, or hold the F2 key down for at least one full second.

Each module has a 2-digit ADR or address. What you are looking for is the ADR for FRM. My 2007 E91 says: 78 (ADR), FRM for "Grobname/ name", and "FRM 70" for SGBD ('Control Device Description File' or abbreviation used for that module).

See what you get trying the above connected to your OBD II socket, and we can take it from there.

George