[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Some people are offering realistic advice. The OP says he has texts he says that show the PO lied about the turbo replacements. No receipts as proof the PO had the turbos replaced by BMW under warranty. If the OP can get the maintenance history from BMW it will be sketchy at best because BMW will not provide vehicle maintenance history with the owner's name and address on the documents. I've gotten maintenance history from BMW on my Z4 and asked for it with the PO's name/address redacted; if the dealer will give it to you, redacted is the only way they will provide it.

If the OP goes to court, he'll have to have either testimony from the dealership that the turbos were not replaced, or certified documents indicating the service activity of his car, as provided by BMW, that show the turbos were not replaced. BMW, neither at the NA level nor at the dealership are going to get in the middle of a lawsuit between two parties.

I can appreciate that you and some others are trying to be realistic, and that the real lesson here is buyer beware and believe nothing without proof. But still, if he’s interested in legal action, remedies exist.

If he can present evidence that:

- the seller lied
- but for the sellers omission, he would not have entered into the transaction
- the turbos were not replaced

...and all that to the satisfaction of a judge, then he has a good chance at success.

This is only a civil suit in SCC, so the burden of proof is reasonably low. Rules of evidence that apply in other levels of court are not typically applied in small claims court. So text messages, Craigslist ad, marked-up cocktail napkins... that kind of stuff is typically fair game for evidence.

Anyway, the greater lesson is not lost on me. It’s just my opinion that if he can provide what the above bullet points lay out, then it’s worth a try.

[Nickco43]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

I can appreciate that you and some others are trying to be realistic, and that the real lesson here is buyer beware and believe nothing without proof. But still, if he’s interested in legal action, remedies exist.

If he can present evidence that:

- the seller lied
- but for the sellers omission, he would not have entered into the transaction
- the turbos were not replaced

...and all that to the satisfaction of a judge, then he has a good chance at success.

This is only a civil suit in SCC, so the burden of proof is reasonably low. Rules of evidence that apply in other levels of court are not typically applied in small claims court. So text messages, Craigslist ad, marked-up cocktail napkins... that kind of stuff is typically fair game for evidence.

Anyway, the greater lesson is not lost on me. It’s just my opinion that if he can provide what the above bullet points lay out, then it’s worth a try.

TLDR: OP should have read the E9X buyers guide.

Let's stop fighting over someones issue.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by wren57

Don't lie and you'll be fine.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by John 070

Based on this thread, wouldn't it be a good bet to never sell a car privately? Because the buyer can come after you at any point and beat the living **** out of you? lol

Maybe that's why people trade cars in for much less $$$.

If I ever sell a car, the bill of sale will state "as is." Think about it, we don't even know what potentially could break on our own cars. How are we supposed to predict the future for someone buying it?

As-is does not mean license to misrepresent what you’re selling. It just means you’re offering no rep or warranty as to condition of vehicle, unless of course you do (as this seller did, by representing the turbos as having been replaced).

So if you sell as-is but also tell the buyer that it has a new engine when it doesn’t, you might be sued. Saying “as-is” isn’t a golden ticket to defraud a buyer. It’s to protect sellers who act in good faith from unreasonable buyers who expect used cars to be perfect.

[e90yyc]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

TLDR: OP should have read the E9X buyers guide.

Let's stop fighting over someones issue.

I’m only speaking for myself here, but I’m certainly not fighting with anyone. Just trying to help the OP.

If I was in his situation, I’d be kicking myself for not reading the guide, but it doesn’t change the shit situation he’s gotten himself into.

That’s all from me. Good luck and good day to all

[LMB335IS]

There's absolutely no legal basis to claim the turbos were not replaced and you were lied to based on any codes it may throw, any rattles they may make, any oil they may leak, etc. If you get the service history from a dealership, even if the previous owners name and address are redacted, it should show the mileage, type of repair done, and dates of said repair. This will either back up his claim or expose it as false. It's really your only option. You can't prove they weren't replaced without it and he can't prove they were replaced without it.

[Cruiser124]

Is this your first time buying a used car? Let's start with the fact that it's 8+ years old..?you bought it from a private party AS IS. As a seller you can say anything you want, and as a buyer you should take it with a grain of salt unless you have pictures, receipts, or undeniable proof of whatever is being claimed.

Fix it, dealt with it, and move on. Any type of litigation is going to be a waste of time, money, and probably get you nowhere. Sad truth, but it's not a new car, things happen..

[wren57]

Originally Posted by Cruiser124

Is this your first time buying a used car? Let's start with the fact that it's 8+ years old..?you bought it from a private party AS IS. As a seller you can say anything you want, and as a buyer you should take it with a grain of salt unless you have pictures, receipts, or undeniable proof of whatever is being claimed.

Fix it, dealt with it, and move on. Any type of litigation is going to be a waste of time, money, and probably get you nowhere. Sad truth, but it's not a new car, things happen..

False.

[Cruiser124]

Originally Posted by wren57

False.

Not really. Do your due diligence and know what you're getting into. With a claim such as turbos, call the dealer and verify, simple.

[Jashan90]

You should've gotten receipts from him. When buying a used car it's "as is". If it was a dealer then there would be a case but cut your losses and move on

[whyzee125]

Generally, private-party sales should include an "as-is" remark in the bill of sale. If this was the case here, you have no legal grounds to stand on. It is an unfortunate situation, but really, service records are EVERYthing. I never ever believe this kind of stuff without the documentation to prove it.

However, if you really want to pursue this (you will have a major uphill battle; this stuff happens all the time and the general consensus is you bought it--your problem now), I'd start by getting a reputable BMW repair facility to diagnose the codes (it may not be your turbos that are bad). If it's your turbos, run a carfax. This may show a turbo replacement but would certainly show the dealer the car was serviced at. I'd then go to that dealer, befriend a service advisor, and ask for the records from all services. They're not supposed to do this, but they can. I got mine this way. THis should tell you whether or not they were indeed replaced. Even if you can prove that they weren't replaced and that the PO said they were, it's still extremely unlikely you'll recover anything from it. He could claim he was told they were, yada yada.

I truly do feel badly that this happened but I'd chalk it up as a learning experience. If there's no documentation, it didn't happen. At the end of the day, who would not keep records for a $4-5k service?

[Edris335i]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

TLDR: OP should have read the E9X buyers guide.

Let's stop fighting over someones issue.

Unfortunately, I wasn't knowledgeable about this forum until after I purchased the car otherwise I would have read that.

[wren57]

Originally Posted by Cruiser124

Not really. Do your due diligence and know what you're getting into. With a claim such as turbos, call the dealer and verify, simple.

Originally Posted by whyzee125

Generally, private-party sales should include an "as-is" remark in the bill of sale. If this was the case here, you have no legal grounds to stand on.

As I've posted many times in this thread: this advice is faulty and simply wrong. There is an element of contracts law called fraudulent inducement.

In his state, California, the elements of fraudulent inducement are: (1) a knowingly false representation by the defendant;
(2) and intent to deceive or induce reliance; (3) justifiable reliance by the plaintiff; and (4) resulting damage. Every
element of the cause of action for fraud must be alleged in full, factually and specifically. Wilhelm v. Pray, Price,
Williams & Russell (1986) 186 Cal.App.3d 1324, 1332.

OP could elect to either rescind the contract or collect damages (new turbos).

Originally Posted by Edris335i

Unfortunately, I wasn't knowledgeable about this forum until after I purchased the car otherwise I would have read that.

Don't be discouraged by everyone telling you that you're SOL; they simply are wrong.

[Cruiser124]

Originally Posted by wren57

As I've posted many times in this thread: this advice is faulty and simply wrong. There is an element of contracts law called fraudulent inducement.

In his state, California, the elements of fraudulent inducement are: (1) a knowingly false representation by the defendant;
(2) and intent to deceive or induce reliance; (3) justifiable reliance by the plaintiff; and (4) resulting damage. Every
element of the cause of action for fraud must be alleged in full, factually and specifically. Wilhelm v. Pray, Price,
Williams & Russell (1986) 186 Cal.App.3d 1324, 1332.

OP could elect to either rescind the contract or collect damages (new turbos).

Don't be discouraged by everyone telling you that you're SOL; they simply are wrong.

Are you a defense lawyer? Any of us can google the California statues like you did, but in the real world this would go nowhere. It's very common and like stated above seller could claim he was told they were replaced.. classic "he said he said". After legal fees you might as well take that money and go get you some turbos � If that's even the issues

[wren57]

Originally Posted by Cruiser124

Are you a defense lawyer? Any of us can google the California statues like you did, but in the real world this would go nowhere. It's very common and like stated above seller could claim he was told they were replaced.. classic "he said he said". After legal fees you might as well take that money and go get you some turbos � If that's even the issues

I am a litigation attorney. I see "the real world" of how the law works daily.

If he has documentation, i.e. text messages (as I mentioned numerous times in this thread already) then it is no longer a he said he said - there is proof of the misrepresentation and therefore proof of the fraudulent inducement.

You keep saying he has no remedy but you're simply wrong. Repeating yourself isn't going to change that. Take this as a learning opportunity rather than one to be stubborn or hostile.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wren57

Don't lie and you'll be fine.

What does that mean, actually? Does that mean if you don't tell the complete story of the car for every mile it was driven and it is an act of omission, then it is a lie and the buyer can legally revert the sale?

Theoretically you may be correct, but in this case the buyer asked, got an answer and chose not to get proof of the answer. Like I said, had the Seller provided illegal doctored documentation that the turbos were replaced, then the seller may have a case. This situation is not that. Unfortunately.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wren57

I am a litigation attorney. I see "the real world" of how the law works daily.

If he has documentation, i.e. text messages (as I mentioned numerous times in this thread already) then it is no longer a he said he said - there is proof of the misrepresentation and therefore proof of the fraudulent inducement.

You keep saying he has no remedy but you're simply wrong. Repeating yourself isn't going to change that. Take this as a learning opportunity rather than one to be stubborn or hostile.

I disagree. He has no documentation and no proof the turbos were not replaced. He'll never be able to prove the turbos were not replaced. Plays to your item (4).

[wren57]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What does that mean, actually? Does that mean if you don't tell the complete story of the car for every mile it was driven and it is an act of omission, then it is a lie and the buyer can legally revert the sale?

Theoretically you may be correct, but in this case the buyer asked, got an answer and chose not to get proof of the answer. Like I said, had the Seller provided doctored illegal documentation that the turbos were replaced, then the seller may have a case. This situation is not that. Unfortunately.

It means don't misrepresent the condition of the car. If you say "this car is in good shape" you're fine. That's puffery. But if you say something specific like "X was replaced last year" but it wasn't, that's fraudulent inducement.

Not necessary to have fraudulent documents.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I disagree. He has no documentation and no proof the turbos were not replaced. He'll never be able to prove the turbos were not replaced.

Sure he can. If he has texts from the seller saying "I got the turbos replaced last year at XYZ BMW" and OP can get an affidavit from XYZ BMW saying "no we did not replace those" then he's golden.

See what I would do yet again:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...40&postcount=3

[MTK24]

Lol the OP is a careless buyer.

I honestly hope the turbo is bad and you have to pay out of your pocket.

Im sorry but you bought a USED VEHICLE. It is YOUR responsibility as a buyer to check the service records on a used vehicle and to run through a proper buyer inspection. You have the VIN number, you can run it through the dealer to see what service was done.

You are taking the sellers word of mouth without doing any research yourself. You were careless and as a result this happened. And you want to peruse legal actions over it

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wren57

It means don't misrepresent the condition of the car. If you say "this car is in good shape" you're fine. That's puffery. But if you say something specific like "X was replaced last year" but it wasn't, that's fraudulent inducement.

Not necessary to have fraudulent documents.



Sure he can. If he has texts from the seller saying "I got the turbos replaced last year at XYZ BMW" and OP can get an affidavit from XYZ BMW saying "no we did not replace those" then he's golden.

See what I would do yet again:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...40&postcount=3

That's what I am saying, he'll never get that from the dealer. Never.

[Cruiser124]

Originally Posted by Vampire335i

Lol the OP is a careless buyer.

I honestly hope the turbo is bad and you have to pay out of your pocket.

Im sorry but you bought a USED VEHICLE. It is YOUR responsibility as a buyer to check the service records on a used vehicle and to run through a proper buyer inspection. You have the VIN number, you can run it through the dealer to see what service was done.

You are taking the sellers word of mouth without doing any research yourself. You were careless and as a result this happened. And you want to peruse legal actions over it

Yup exactly what I said, so pointless

[Cruiser124]

Originally Posted by Cruiser124

Yup exactly what I said, so pointless

Buying a used car 101: Paperwork, pictures, documentation, or it didn't happen.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by e90yyc

I’m only speaking for myself here, but I’m certainly not fighting with anyone. Just trying to help the OP.

If I was in his situation, I’d be kicking myself for not reading the guide, but it doesn’t change the shit situation he’s gotten himself into.

That’s all from me. Good luck and good day to all

I'm trying to help the Buyer too. He has no chance in being made whole. He might as well suck it up and replace the turbos.

I had a similar issue with CarMax. I spent more time arguing with them than it would take time to fix the car. So I said F-U and every chance I get I bad mouth CarMax on the internet and to associates.