[ny325]

Love my E90.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by thecadman99

"The new car's electrically assisted power steering is quite good (and, thanks to software updates, will likely get better), but it's not great, and when it occasionally communicates what the chassis is doing, it tells you what just happened. The E90's hydraulic steering, by contrast, tells you what's about to happen. That's an important distinction as you're approaching the limits of a car's suspension: Dude you're sideways" is a different thing from "don't feed in any more throttle, because your rear tires are about to break traction."

Regarding the better gas mileage of the T4vs the I6: "in real-world driving, we observed a gain of less than 1.5 mpg"

This has been my bitch about the N20 all along. I've hardly seen any turbo car get THAT much better gas mileage than a NA-engined car to make it worth the trouble of owning turbos. I'd bet BMW could have taken the 2.5L version of the N52, put the N53 head on it (Direct Injection) and got just as good or maybe better fuel mileage of the F30 328i. For us old dudes who had to wait and wait for BMW put the M20 "i" motor in the E30 in 1988 (4 years after the E30 chassis came out), not having a NA I6 in the 3-series is a deal killer (well at least for me).

[thecadman99]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This has been my bitch about the N20 all along. I've hardly seen any turbo car get THAT much better gas mileage than a NA-engined car to make it worth the trouble of owning turbos. I'd bet BMW could have taken the 2.5L version of the N52, put the N53 head on it (Direct Injection) and got just as good or maybe better fuel mileage of the F30 328i. For us old dudes who had to wait and wait for BMW put the M20 "i" motor in the E30 in 1988 (4 years after the E30 chassis came out), not having a NA I6 in the 3-series is a deal killer (well at least for me).

The performance of the F30 is a little better. 0-60 is 5.6s vs 6.0s on the e90
Interestingly their measure of 5-60 was the same for both cars at 6.7 seconds.

In the quarter mile the t4 ran a 14.3 at 100mph and the i6 ran 14.7 at 96mph

So it gets a little better mileage, and its a little faster, but we're magazine racing here...

Looking around at all I6 e46 and e36 cars still on the road with a bazillion miles, I don't see that happening with the new t4 cars.

[Saintor]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This has been my bitch about the N20 all along. I've hardly seen any turbo car get THAT much better gas mileage than a NA-engined car to make it worth the trouble of owning turbos. I'd bet BMW could have taken the 2.5L version of the N52, put the N53 head on it (Direct Injection) and got just as good or maybe better fuel mileage of the F30 328i.

Specially if they make it run on regular gas. The premium is +8% here and I see it as a waste.

This mainstream turbo-thing is crazy and has no justification out of Euro tax for displacement and fashion. Asian competitors build better V6 powerplants than the N20, that cost no more to run.

By my experience with the N52 2.5L, I am sure that the 3.0L would be as fuel efficient.

The performance of the F30 is a little better. 0-60 is 5.6s vs 6.0s on the e90

0-60 is done with abuse, which nobody does on a regular basis. 5-60mph street acceleration times are the same for N52 / N20.

[cdgatti]

I think the answer to which new bmw to buy to replace your e90... is the X1, yes the X1. You can get the best of both worlds. The interior build quality of the e90 and the new improved power and fuel efficiency of the n20/8sp auto combo. Plus it has the "old" solid BMW steering. OR opt for the n55 engine and you have a pocket rocket.

[shata]

Those magazines have big impact on car buyers. Its good they said that e90 is better...which it is. It will keep our values on higher side rather then them dropping more.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by thecadman99

The performance of the F30 is a little better. 0-60 is 5.6s vs 6.0s on the e90
Interestingly their measure of 5-60 was the same for both cars at 6.7 seconds.

In the quarter mile the t4 ran a 14.3 at 100mph and the i6 ran 14.7 at 96mph

So it gets a little better mileage, and its a little faster, but we're magazine racing here...

Looking around at all I6 e46 and e36 cars still on the road with a bazillion miles, I don't see that happening with the new t4 cars.

Exactly. After taking my E30 to 256K (it went to 290 before the head cracked - the owner after me let it overheat) and my E90 currently at 219K, I'm looking for longevity of ownership; not a half second off the 0-60 trap time (keep in mind that those times are run by professional drivers on test tracks with drive-train-abusive techniques, and don't really relate to real-world driving situations) with maybe a 1.0 MPG gain. At steady speed turbos don't help much with MPGs (except the motor displacement is usually smaller allowing less use of fuel).

What I don't understand is the disregard for cost of ownership. So, great, you get an N20 and run it for 100,000 miles and maybe save $1,400 in fuel costs, only to need to replace the turbos at 120,000 for $3,000. It's stupid. Oh, yeah, I forgot, we're saving the planet.

[norsairius]

Originally Posted by cdgatti

I think the answer to which new bmw to buy to replace your e90... is the X1, yes the X1. You can get the best of both worlds. The interior build quality of the e90 and the new improved power and fuel efficiency of the n20/8sp auto combo. Plus it has the "old" solid BMW steering. OR opt for the n55 engine and you have a pocket rocket.

Are you sure? Or are you referring to an early model X1? I drove a 2014 X1 for a loaner and the steering felt pretty F30-ish.

[dreamspeed]

Turbo = awesome mpg is just a marketing ploy. Im sure everyone remembers not that long ago turbo equaled performance...

A turbo just pushes in more air and what do you need if you have more air? That's right, more FUEL.

[cdgatti]

The X1 I drove - think it was a 2013 had the hydraulic steering. Felt like my e90. Wonder if they changed now for the 2014 - don't know.

[Benstuck]

The F30 guys haven't posted this in their forum?!?! I wonder why....

[tonydetiger]

Originally Posted by cdgatti

The X1 I drove - think it was a 2013 had the hydraulic steering. Felt like my e90. Wonder if they changed now for the 2014 - don't know.

Still the same. Xdrive X1's have hydraulic steering. AWD system takes up too much room for the electric assist.

[thenewrick]

Turbos make good tuners. I only consider factory turbocharged cars when shopping.

[norsairius]

Originally Posted by cdgatti

The X1 I drove - think it was a 2013 had the hydraulic steering. Felt like my e90. Wonder if they changed now for the 2014 - don't know.

Originally Posted by tonydetiger

Still the same. Xdrive X1's have hydraulic steering. AWD system takes up too much room for the electric assist.

Hmm.... well, I was out looking for this issue of R&T that this article is in, but couldn't find it at Barnes and Noble. Is it an older issue or a new one? Maybe I just missed it? What month?

In any case, I did see a Bimmer magazine that had a review of the X1 and that article mentioned that it still has the hydraulic steering.

I will say the X1 loaner I had did have steering that felt different than the 2013 328i xDrive I had as a loaner before, but it was still very light to me. It way closer to the F30 to me on the E9X to F30 spectrum of steering feel.

Many say that the E46 had probably the best hydraulic steering but I had a hard time believing it considering the steering in my car feels so direct and communicative. Now I feel like I should try an E90 just to see how it compares. Maybe the previous owner of my car did something to the steering rack. If they did, I'd like to thank them, haha.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by norsairius

Hmm.... well, I was out looking for this issue of R&T that this article is in, but couldn't find it at Barnes and Noble. Is it an older issue or a new one? Maybe I just missed it? What month?

In any case, I did see a Bimmer magazine that had a review of the X1 and that article mentioned that it still has the hydraulic steering.

I will say the X1 loaner I had did have steering that felt different than the 2013 328i xDrive I had as a loaner before, but it was still very light to me. It way closer to the F30 to me on the E9X to F30 spectrum of steering feel.

Many say that the E46 had probably the best hydraulic steering but I had a hard time believing it considering the steering in my car feels so direct and communicative. Now I feel like I should try an E90 just to see how it compares. Maybe the previous owner of my car did something to the steering rack. If they did, I'd like to thank them, haha.

The best steering feel 3-series was the first - E21. Okay, it WAS a manual steering rack, but oh Lord the steering feel in that chassis was fantastic. When you drove it over gravel, you could feel every pebble.

[nycbr]

I had an F30 328 loaner for a few days and had the opportunity to do some long distance highway driving as well as city driving. The motor's combination of power and mileage was impressive, but otherwise it was not a very satisfying experience. It is no longer a sports car.

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by nycbr

I had an F30 328 loaner for a few days and had the opportunity to do some long distance highway driving as well as city driving. The motor's combination of power and mileage was impressive, but otherwise it was not a very satisfying experience. It is no longer a sports car.

If you like power and mileage and prefer a more satisfying e90 experience, check out a sport-package e90 335d sometime...it's a pretty impressive bit of engineering.

P.S. the e90 is not a sports car either, but you're right that it feels much more like a sports sedan (luxury-sport coup in the 92s case) than the F30 I drove around for a while as a loaner. I hate that you can't adjust the steering on the F to sport without having the thing try to tach itself out all the time. I wish there were independent adjustments for suspension, throttle, transmission, and steering; this could be a large improvement...perhaps on the f30LCI?

I also wish they didn't get rid of the twin turbo inline six diesel in the lineup or the NA i6, but I don't plan to get one anyway due to the overall feel...I like that they finally added auto day/night to the nav system though! My 2004 Mazda had that! (And a better sound system)...

[Hops128i]

It seems like bmw is gradually moving each series upwards to replace the next. The f30 3/4 series seems to be replacing the old 5 series, and the new 1/2 series is replacing the e90 3 series.

At the parking lot at work, i occasionally park next to a e46 coupe, side by side, my e82 looks like an evolution of the e46.

I hope the new 1/2 series isn't getting bloated, because the current 1 series -200lbs would be about perfect.

[galahad05]

Just wait for the 0 series.

[boyce89976]

I just picked up an '11 335i and I can't imagine a better car. Improved in many ways over my '06 330i... most notably, obviously, the engine. Mine has the PPK, which was installed prior to the original sale to the original owner, and I love the the pops and burbles from the exhaust after lifting off the throttle!

[Mavus]

When Tesla's 3 series competitor comes out in 2-3 years BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti are going to scramble to figure out what just happened. What they've done in such a short period of time is amazing. And their CEO runs 3 companies simultaneously. They also hired very good chassis engineers from Germany, guess which ones!?

[CaliBear1]

Just another data point to support my decision to go with the last of the Mohicans: a 2013 335is cabriolet! I wonder if the 335is cab, with its N54 engine, will retain even more of its value given the general criticism of the F30-32 platform.

I gave serious thought to a Tesla S, but I want to see Musk and Co. work out the kinks and expand the charging station infrastructure and network before committing to it.

Ship with my ride arrives in Manzanillo, Mexico tomorrow. That puts it 10 days out from Port Hueneme and probably a further week from my NorCal dealership. This will be a LONG two-three weeks!