[rasa bmw]

no,,i meant one stop can not fade brakes ,,even at off the clock speeds,,3-4 maybe,,,ive done hard driving/braking and cooked brakes(e46 330d) to the point i could not slow for a roundabout,,playing with a fireblade,biker pulled alongside,,i said ive non brakes left,,he said i know i can smell them,,i would say 5 very hard brakings did this,,,this was standard brakes like pagid etc,,but when i have changed to zimmerman and yellowstuff on my e90 330d and red stuff on my old e92 335d,,i do not get any fade of same driving,so summit is up if brakes were shot after one stop

[david in germany]

Originally Posted by rasa bmw

total shite that,,,after one stop no,,after several its quite easy

I have tried several different pad and rotor combos on my 335i and the ONLY one I have had no (zero) issues is OEM rotors and pads on front. Rear pads and rotors is different, you have more flexibility.

Yes, they may dust a bit more and may cost more but 180mph+ hard stops on the autobahn they feel like they are asking me to do it again. No hot spots on the rotors and pads remain solid. Don’t fall into the aftermarket is better trap for the brakes on these cars. Each aftermarket product is built to fit a need.
Daily driver with less dusting - brand A
Daly driving with aggressive initial bite - brand B
Great track pad but eats rotors - brand C
Great all around braking and good life - OEM

Just wanted to add, on my wife’s 328i e90 with 335i front brakes, what I said above is out the door.
Her car is lighter and does not need to work as hard to stop therefore I am a little more flexible with aftermarket parts.

[rasa bmw]

Originally Posted by david in germany

I have tried several different pad and rotor combos on my 335i and the ONLY one I have had no (zero) issues is OEM rotors and pads on front. Rear pads and rotors is different, you have more flexibility.

Yes, they may dust a bit more and may cost more but 180mph+ hard stops on the autobahn they feel like they are asking me to do it again. No hot spots on the rotors and pads remain solid. Don’t fall into the aftermarket is better trap for the brakes on these cars. Each aftermarket product is built to fit a need.
Daily driver with less dusting - brand A
Daly driving with aggressive initial bite - brand B
Great track pad but eats rotors - brand C
Great all around braking and good life - OEM

Just wanted to add, on my wife’s 328i e90 with 335i front brakes, what I said above is out the door.
Her car is lighter and does not need to work as hard to stop therefore I am a little more flexible with aftermarket parts.

my 640d has bmw pads and rotors,,i can see the bmw logo on pads and hae invoices from last owner for discs,,they are good,,but i have had brake fade once in 6 months ive owned it,,quite a few hard brakings in succession,,they staretd to vibrate a little and stopping distance was deffo shortened,,i do not drive like this often,,but when i do i like to know that fade will not rear it's head,,when i renew the brakes,,i will be going with 2 piece ebc black coated and red stuff pads,,price wise no difference,be a while like as i only do 6k a year in this car and pads show 30k left all round

[Smokey33]

Originally Posted by rasa bmw

total shite that,,,after one stop no,,after several its quite easy

With shit aftermarket brakes and already cooked fluid, well yeah. If everything is ok you can't. Unless of course your driving around at 3am round an industrial estate doing very illegal things.

460HP 335i here on stock OEM rear and 4 pistons 340mm off a M135i. Stops fine over and over.

[stevesingo]

I tend to side with David on this, OEM stuff is pretty good. The type approval process OEMs go through for brake performance (71/320/EEC) is pretty robust therefore I'd be surprised they would gain type approval if one stop from VMax would cause fade. I doubt after market pads go through the same.

My 2007 330i has stock BMW discs and pads all round and it certainly gets used in an extended fashion - similar to the OP - high speed down to low speed, but I never brake hard to a complete stop if I can avoid it. Hot discs and pads in close proximity or in contact whilst stationary will cause pad transfer. Very rarely I might get some pad odour and a little less bite after using the brakes hard for a prolonged period, but never a significant drop in braking power.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Smokey33

With shit aftermarket brakes and already cooked fluid, well yeah. If everything is ok you can't. Unless of course your driving around at 3am round an industrial estate doing very illegal things.

460HP 335i here on stock OEM rear and 4 pistons 340mm off a M135i. Stops fine over and over.

Chappers 71 have you had a bad experience with OE pads that makes you want to avoid them?

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Chappers 71 have you had a bad experience with OE pads that makes you want to avoid them?

No, other than this one.

When I decided to add more power to the 35i I thought a little more stoping ability would be prudent, hence the Redstuff ceramic pads.

[RajB]

It’s been a while since being able to get back here lol. On too many forums and groups lol.

So you can get fade even with BBKs as mostly it’s about the pads and fluid. I’d say best option is usually to just put better fluid in and braided lines. Then try better quality pads.
OE pads are good for the odd stop but if pushing them a little harder they will fade very easily.

[stevesingo]

Fade comes in two main guises;

1. Fluid Boiling. Not strictly the fluid boiling, but the water absorbed in to the fluid boiling as it's boiling point (100degC) is much lower than that of the base fluid (250+degC). To get the fluid to boil, we need to increase the bulk temperature of the caliper significantly. The heat is transferred to the caliper via conduction through the piston and radiation from the disc. This is not an instant process and usually needs repeated high load applications. When this happens, the pedal gradually goes longer as you are trying to compress a gas bubble. Normally, once the temperature has been reduced, the pedal feel returns to normal.

2. Pad Gassing. This is where the pad material is overheated and the binding material starts to produce gas. This gas is obviously produced at the hottest part of the pad, the face. If the volatility of the gassing is sufficient, it will create a barrier between the friction face and the disc. The pedal needs to be pushed harder to counter the pressure of the gassing. This causes more heat and more gassing. If the pad material is really under specced. this can happen quickly as the first thing to heat up is the pad friction face. This causes damage to the friction face of the pad as the binder has effectively burnt away. After such an event, the pedal feel and bit will have changed semi permanently. I say semi permanently as once the damaged friction material is worn away through normal use, the face is then in the came composition as before the brake fade event.

Of course, you can get a combination of the above.

What the OP seems to have experienced is pad gassing. One very hard application of the brakes increasing the friction surface temperature to the point of gassing.

[nomiS330d]

Because chappers 71 has bought them I’ve ordered the same proline hoses, came yesterday. I’ve also bought 2 litres of castrol react fluid so that’s my job this weekend ready for Monday’s mot. I had an advisory on the front hoses last year so they need doing anyway. With me luck with the rusty (hopefully not) joints please!

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by nomiS330d

Because chappers 71 has bought them I’ve ordered the same proline hoses, came yesterday. I’ve also bought 2 litres of castrol react fluid so that’s my job this weekend ready for Monday’s mot. I had an advisory on the front hoses last year so they need doing anyway. With me luck with the rusty (hopefully not) joints please!

Glad to have helped

Hoses have been in a while now & all good. I had a look underneath the car when it was up on the lift during its mot & the hoses look pretty cool. Glad that I changed them (had someone change them for me).

What colour did you go for?

[nomiS330d]

I went for transparent. I briefly considered a lairy colour but decided transparent was a good compromise between stock and silly.
The rear outers were very fiddly, the fronts were a lot easier but the 2 rear inners are imposible without damaging the metal pipes so not done those yet. I may order some new metal pipes before tackling them.
I drove about 3 miles home from where I did them and couldn’t feel any difference really. I know the difference will probably only be apparent when hooning or on the track so that’s fine, one less thing to fail the mot on Monday.