[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

/end thread

I applaud your optimism.

[Revartr]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I never understood the time and money people put into not getting a speeding ticket these days (radar, jammers, camo plates, etc). I would hope the drivers that I assume speed on a regular basis for which a ticket would be issued know that speeding causes more than 10,000 deaths per year (a large amount of the entire road related deaths). If you want to drive faster than the speed limit than either face the consequences or put up some $$ to get on a track / private road.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/media/press...308_speed.html



Moderator Note: thread split off from radar detector discussion.

Because maybe we'd rather spend the money and not have to deal with points on our licenses? "Speed kills". Yeah, tell that to Germany with a Road Fatality rate that's 37% what the US has, yet they have stretches of highway (certain parts of the Autobahn) with no speed limit whatsoever. I've lived in Germany, and I can tell you for a fact that the average driver is driving MUCH faster than the average American driver. It has nothing to do with how fast you're going. It has to do with the fact that our driving tests are jokes, a lot of people out on the roads don't actually know traffic laws and road etiquette, and a lot of the people driving out there are horrible drivers.

I'm not somebody who zips around traffic and drives like an asshat, but I'm also not going to be an easy target for the revenue jockeys camping out and trying to trap people into paying ridiculous fines and losing their licenses (though a lot of people need shouldn't have them in the first place).

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

You're welcome kiddo. Now go back to racing your little ricers around town acting all fast and furious

Yeah, I guess this counts for me too, with my "ricer" M4.

[Taran.J]

This is going to be a good thread

[roastbeef]

I feel that every so many years the speed limits should need to be reevaluated because technology has advanced in cars in ways that make higher speeds less dangerous.
However, when I look over and see a 25 year old van that is barely running, yet filled to the roof with junk, I'm reminded the limits are for the lowest common denominator.
Just use discretion in all conditions and be safe for everyone.

[MMMCOOKIES55]

I do not personally agree with speeding in excess on public roads, that is what your local track is for (VIR FTW!) However, there is something to be said about Europe and the rate at which their cars travel on a normal basis vs. their crash rate. People in America generally speaking cannot drive worth a shit. Passing on the right, no turn signals, hanging out in the left lane, blowing through stop signs, stopping on onramps, etc... the list goes on.

[radix]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I never understood the time and money people put into not getting a speeding ticket these days (radar, jammers, camo plates, etc). I would hope the drivers that I assume speed on a regular basis for which a ticket would be issued know that speeding causes more than 10,000 deaths per year (a large amount of the entire road related deaths). If you want to drive faster than the speed limit than either face the consequences or put up some $$ to get on a track / private road.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/media/press...308_speed.html



Moderator Note: thread split off from radar detector discussion.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by NEFARIOUS

Personally, I speed within reason, like 70-75 on a 65 on a clear day with minimal traffic, only because the LA area is full of douchebags that'll tailgate/flash high beams at you for going the de facto speed limit, not to mention if I wanted something designed for the speed limit I'd get a Prius since it feels kinda... Aesthetically weird to go the speed limit in my E90 in my opinion, I don't know why.

However, back when I actually had a radar detector, it was only there because my dad gave me his after he sold his car, and I hated getting BS tickets and feeding the government more money than they deserve; the last time I got a tax refund was 2009 (only $56) and had to pay every year since and nothing substantial has resulted from my tax dollars, but that's another story for another time.

Yet, like others are saying... In my opinion, there's a huge difference between the scenario of 5-10 over in the interest of keeping up with the flow, then there's reckless on inappropriate situations, like Hondouches who break triple digits with plenty of other cars around.

Out of curiosity, why are you paying back taxes?

[ajrettke]

Because he doesn't have the correct deductions, and or made profit from other investments, and or doesn't like giving the government 0% loans...*shrug*

[NEFARIOUS]

Let's see... I'm unmarried, California having slightly more taxes (CASDI), had really lousy jobs that barely made ends meet enough for me to even CONSIDER investing, my payroll, as luck would have it, is on the extreme edge of the tax bracket, the few deductions I put on the table is only enough to REDUCE the amount of taxes paid (probably from $500 down to $75)... Plus although I haven't had much clients lately, I have an LLC fixing computers, for which I get the dreaded 1099 that I'm better off not reporting, but have to since Uncle Sam's lazy ass doesn't like any excuses for not having its coffer fed (but it hypocritically is OK to rip the people off).

[amyracecar]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Number one killer on the roads is inattentive drivers, not very confident maneuvers and simply not being aware of your surroundings.

SECOND

I suffered a significant spinal injury/left shoulder separated from two separate auto accidents - both times i was 100% not at fault so now take mad shit for driving a 1er w/ a handicap plate.. I lost my dad to a car wreck when I was younger - I have the upmost respect for piloting a missile at 60+ mph and know it is the most dangerous thing I do [and one reason why i am BMW loyal b/c they take a hit like a tank]..

it was not speed [either] time.. it was a driver NOT PAYING ATTENTION and ON THE F*&C**&^G PHONE.. one was a crisp clear day w/ no one else on the road, yet the truck [2x weight of my 330ci] made a LEFT right in front of my trajectory - on a DIVIDED HIGHWAY... I didn't even make it to the brake.. CAR crushed to FIREWALL...

I have a radar detector and am a super attentive driver [no phone, no radio even most of the time, no texting, no nothing] - it has saved me numerous tickets BUT I am highly aware of my car's ability, my ability to handle that, the current driving conditions and the traffic around me..

I drive very defensively.. slightly aggressively but usually to get around/away from a perceived danger [like shit flying off a dump truck or some asshole not paying attention/staying in his lane].. would rather pass a problem than become the casualty of one [had a FL Hwy Patrol agree w/ me on that point - still got that tix though]
I don't speed egregiously but my car/me are far capable of doing 10-15+ in alot of areas [and away from assholes].. intersections always make me nervous so I slow up/have a clear view - always-

Dar keeps me tix free - we are not all punk kids out trying to burn thru a tank of gas just for kix; some of us think before we act!

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by MMMCOOKIES335...

I do not personally agree with speeding in excess on public roads, that is what your local track is for (VIR FTW!) However, there is something to be said about Europe and the rate at which their cars travel on a normal basis vs. their crash rate. People in America generally speaking cannot drive worth a shit. Passing on the right, no turn signals, hanging out in the left lane, blowing through stop signs, stopping on onramps, etc... the list goes on.

+1, if we only made our driving test extremely difficult, I believe we would have better drivers.

[paradoxical3]

Educate yourself, OP.

/thread

As someone who is in the industry, the #1 most dangerous thing on the roads is differential of speed. That cuts both ways. The indisputable fact of the matter is that the vast majority of drivers speed. Thus, the driver going the speed limit (10mph under average flow) is just as dangerous as someone going 10mph faster than the flow of traffic.

Current speed limits were largely forced on states by the federal government, bludgeoned into place as part of the 55mph national speed limit movement with threats of withholding tax dollars. They were NOT instituted with safety studies.

In every instance where speed limits have been increased to more closely reflect the average flow of traffic, fatalities have dropped.

[upstatedoc]

^^ I feel like I've seen this video on another forum quite some time ago. What industry are you in?

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

^^ I feel like I've seen this video on another forum quite some time ago. What industry are you in?

I am not a sponsor here so need to be careful not to advertise, but I am in the "countermeasure" industry. Part of securing funding in this industry involves just an exhausting amount of research into speeding, and a big part of my job is organizing and documenting that information in a easy to understand way. That video is old and I do not agree with 100% of it, but he has the crux of the matter right.

You would be shocked the kind of info you can find just by reaching out to states directly (and university librarians) and asking for studies. A lot of the stuff you are entitled to via freedom of information act. I have numerous examples of studies conducted by the government that show doing XYZ decreases safety but increases revenue at a particular street or intersection, and they go ahead with it every time. Small municipalities are the worst.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Educate yourself, OP.

/thread

As someone who is in the industry, the #1 most dangerous thing on the roads is differential of speed. That cuts both ways. The indisputable fact of the matter is that the vast majority of drivers speed. Thus, the driver going the speed limit (10mph under average flow) is just as dangerous as someone going 10mph faster than the flow of traffic.

Current speed limits were largely forced on states by the federal government, bludgeoned into place as part of the 55mph national speed limit movement with threats of withholding tax dollars. They were NOT instituted with safety studies.

In every instance where speed limits have been increased to more closely reflect the average flow of traffic, fatalities have dropped.

Are you sure your conclusion "#1 most dangerous thing on the road is differential of speed" is so simple? If all cars were going the same speed then it would potentially be hazardous to car from the on-ramps or people that need to change lanes to exit. The video even states that Germany is a good example of a country with better motoring but the Autobahn, by no means, has motorists going the same speed. Rather, in Germany, motorists have adopted a common set of laws that require slow drivers to let faster drivers go by on the left.

Also, I have no doubt that some police setup speed traps but in the video it made it seem like it is just common practice just to meet quotas or something. Just because a road seems like people should be able to increase their speed doesn't make it just... other factors could come into play such as frequent wildlife crossing the road (as it could be the case in Vancouver) or multiple country roads connecting to a large road where they may need highway motorists to slow down so they can safely turn and get up to speed.

[paradoxical3]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

Are you sure your conclusion "#1 most dangerous thing on the road is differential of speed" is so simple? If all cars were going the same speed then it would potentially be hazardous to car from the on-ramps or people that need to change lanes to exit. The video even states that Germany is a good example of a country with better motoring but the Autobahn, by no means, has motorists going the same speed. Rather, in Germany, motorists have adopted a common set of laws that require slow drivers to let faster drivers go by on the left.

I should have qualified my statement with, "In the United States." Cars entering and exiting the highway are absolutely at more risk than those traveling at steady state velocity in a pack. The lack of laws and adherence to laws in the United States regarding passing on designated sides only is part of what contributes to the danger from speed differential.

Also, I have no doubt that some police setup speed traps but in the video it made it seem like it is just common practice just to meet quotas or something. Just because a road seems like people should be able to increase their speed doesn't make it just... other factors could come into play such as frequent wildlife crossing the road (as it could be the case in Vancouver) or multiple country roads connecting to a large road where they may need highway motorists to slow down so they can safely turn and get up to speed.

As I previously said, the majority of the 55mph speed limits in the United States were set without safety or engineering studies. In many instances, against the will of the state (Montana is one example). There are certainly instances of speed limits properly set. There are many more instances of them being improperly set. And in any case, the safest speed to travel is nearly always the speed of the 85th percentile, regardless of what the speed limit says.

In regard to your question about quotas, they exist - sometimes formally (reference the recent Ohio controversy) and sometimes informally. Every municipality's and every state's budget includes estimated revenue generated from citations, as well as use of proceeds from those funds. If there is a drastic drop due to increased driving safety, the state faces a budget shortfall. They want to hit their numbers, as every other business does. Like it or not, citations are a big business. It gets even worse when you get into automated enforcement, where you have instances like Florida reducing the duration of yellow lights to below legal limits specifically to drive citation revenue.

Did you know that Washington D.C., Chicago, Florida, NYC, CA, and Ohio combined issued $486,000,000 of photo citations in 2012? A single camera on K street in Washington D.C. took in $8,000,000 of revenue in 2012.

The return on investment for photo enforcement for Washington D.C. was 10,667% in 2012.

[PINeely]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

Are you sure your conclusion "#1 most dangerous thing on the road is differential of speed" is so simple? If all cars were going the same speed then it would potentially be hazardous to car from the on-ramps or people that need to change lanes to exit. The video even states that Germany is a good example of a country with better motoring but the Autobahn, by no means, has motorists going the same speed. Rather, in Germany, motorists have adopted a common set of laws that require slow drivers to let faster drivers go by on the left.

Also, I have no doubt that some police setup speed traps but in the video it made it seem like it is just common practice just to meet quotas or something. Just because a road seems like people should be able to increase their speed doesn't make it just... other factors could come into play such as frequent wildlife crossing the road (as it could be the case in Vancouver) or multiple country roads connecting to a large road where they may need highway motorists to slow down so they can safely turn and get up to speed.

The law is the same in the US at least in every state that I have driven in. That doesn't mean that people will follow it.

Have you ever driven on the Autobahn? If you have then you will know that you'll be cruising along happily at 120mph or whatever you feel safe doing and then someone will pull out in front of you at the last second doing 60. Usually an enormous cargo truck.

In theory the slow-fast lane system works. Passing vehicles on the left, cruising cars in the middle, exiting cars in the outermost or exit lane. The problem arises when you come up on someone doing 60 in a 70mph zone in the passing lane. Or when someone passes on the right at the speed of light and compromises the drivers who are trying to safely merge in/exit. In those instances differential of speed is what risks lives.

I agree with your second paragraph, however. ALL factors must be considered when setting a speed limit. Wildlife, schools, connecting roads, etc. are important considerations to make.

[Gle8]

People tend to throw out the statistic that when speed limits are increased, fatalities increase. And that is true, to a point.

When speed limits go up, accidents go down. And the percentage of accidents that result in fatality go up. Makes perfect sense. The faster you are going when you are in an accident, the more likely you will not survive it. But that doesn't change the fact that total accidents go down (oftentimes dramatically)

[UncleWede]

^ Would you rather crash at 55, be maimed and in a painful vegetative state for the remaining agonizing years of your life while your family slowly is ground into the hospital parking lot, or
crash at 75 and make a relatively quick exit?

Wait, am I in the wrong thread again???

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

^ Would you rather crash at 55, be maimed and in a painful vegetative state for the remaining agonizing years of your life while your family slowly is ground into the hospital parking lot, or
crash at 75 and make a relatively quick exit?

Wait, am I in the wrong thread again???

What flavor of Jell-o is served at vegetative state-hospital?

[UncleWede]

Depends on the color of the curly straws they got that week. I always preferred orange

[upstatedoc]

Where are my pants?!?!