[brogrammer]

Crank no start w/ the following fault codes
[SOLVED] CONNECTIONS TO F11 RELAY WERE NOT PROPERLY SEATED[/SOLVED]
DME/DDE
2D16 - DME: Air-mass sensor, signal
2D0F - Air-mass sensor, signal
2A19 - Tank-venting valve, activation
2A13 - DMTL leak diagnosis pump, activation
2A12 - DMTL solenoid valve, activation
2A18 - DMTL, heater: activation
2F71 - Electronics-box fan, activation
2A94 - Crankshaft sensor, signal

I had all these codes yesterday and I had been able to get it to cold start after several attempts and extra long cranks for the past few days. No such luck today.

I'm leaning towards a short in the harness. I think if it were a fuse operation would have stopped completely instead of the intermittent behavior.

I do not have ISTA. I only have the tools available - 5.0.6 (with English script files & Support for F-series)
EDIABAS 7.3.0
NCS Expert (with English menus and buttons, and NCS Dummy Profile pre-installed)
NCS Dummy 4.0.1
Tool32 4.0.3
WinKFP 5.3.1
Integrated SP-DATEN v53.3
BMW Coding Tool v2.5.0 (for use as an alternative to NCS Dummy, or to update DATEN files as new ones become available)
USB Drivers for cable

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by brogrammer

[2008 328xi] Crank no start w/ the following fault codes: ... 2A94 - Crankshaft sensor, signal...
I do not have ISTA. I only have the tools available - 5.0.6 (with English script files & Support for F-series)...

BMW Standard Tools includes INPA Factory-Level Diagnostic Software. I can't tell from your post if you have downloaded E89 Datens, the Data files used by INPA on E9x models. If there is an issue with INPA, please describe.

Crankshaft Sensor Signal is needed by the DME to time Spark & Injector Pulse, so if that signal is FUBAR: Crank, NO Start. Whatever Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software you have SHOULD be able to read engine RPM as Live Data/ Parameter, during engine cranking. That is more accurate than Tach display.

RPM during Starter Cranking (Signal as received by DME from Crankshaft Sensor) SHOULD be in 180 - 200 RPM range. IF that signal is NOT consistent or present, THAT is cause of NO Start.

Here are BMW Fault Lookup Definition of 2A94 code, and the Fault Info Link which provides "Service Notes" of what to test:
2A94 | DME: Crankshaft sensor, signal | msv80
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...gAMgA2ADAANAA=

George

[brogrammer]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

BMW Standard Tools includes INPA Factory-Level Diagnostic Software. I can't tell from your post if you have downloaded E89 Datens, the Data files used by INPA on E9x models. If there is an issue with INPA, please describe.

Crankshaft Sensor Signal is needed by the DME to time Spark & Injector Pulse, so if that signal is FUBAR: Crank, NO Start. Whatever Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software you have SHOULD be able to read engine RPM as Live Data/ Parameter, during engine cranking. That is more accurate than Tach display.

RPM during Starter Cranking (Signal as received by DME from Crankshaft Sensor) SHOULD be in 180 - 200 RPM range. IF that signal is NOT consistent or present, THAT is cause of NO Start.

Here are BMW Fault Lookup Definition of 2A94 code, and the Fault Info Link which provides "Service Notes" of what to test:
2A94 | DME: Crankshaft sensor, signal | msv80
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...gAMgA2ADAANAA=

George

I should give a better update.

I realized I had the transfer case control module unplugged. I had just swapped it and went back in to clean the contacts and after leaving it to dry I forgot it was unconnected.

So I have fewer and different codes; but the condition remains the same - crank no start.

JBBF - A6CF 61

MRS - 93BB E4
93AA E0
93AD E0
93C3 E2

DME/DDE - 2A19 D2 - Tank-venting valve, activation


VGSG - 54C8 68

DSC - 5412 E0
5F13 E0
9520 E0
5EBA E0

CAS - A0B4 60 -

FZD - A092 60

KOMBI - A554 60

FRM - A8AE 64
9CC0 64
9CBF 64

Curiously I tried to read the rpm before and after I connected the transfer case module and it stayed at zero no matter what.

I read the obd 'drehzahl' value. Should I use another?

For now I'll investigate the tank venting issue.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by brogrammer

... DME/DDE - 2A19 D2 - Tank-venting valve, activation [What happened to 2A94 fault code?]...
CAS - A0B4 [That code basically means NO RPM signal when START pressed]...
Curiously I tried to read the rpm before and after I connected the transfer case module and it stayed at zero no matter what. [It appears you have NO Crankshaft Sensor Signal received by DME]
I read the obd 'drehzahl' value. [Das ist RPM (Drehzahl = RPM).]
For now I'll investigate the tank venting issue. [Tank Vent Valve has NOTHING to do with Crank, NO Start, BUT it has SAME F11 Fuse as Crank Sensor.]

If Tach shows NO RPM during Starter Cranking, and neither does Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software, then your Crankshaft Sensor, its POWER SUPPLY, or its wiring is faulty. INPA shows "Motor Drehzahl", directly under KL 87 Spannung (DME Main Relay or Terminal 87 Voltage) in FIRST Group of Analog Measured Values (Parameters or Live Data) in F5 Status. Menu Path: INPA > DME > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 Measured Values Group 1.

Check fuse F11, as that powers Crankshaft Sensor, Fuel Tank Vent Valve, and MAF Sensor. You previously reported faults for each of those. F11 ALSO powers the OZS. Can you read "Static" (engine off) Oil Level?
George

[brogrammer]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

If Tach shows NO RPM during Starter Cranking, and neither does Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software, then your Crankshaft Sensor, its POWER SUPPLY, or its wiring is faulty. INPA shows "Motor Drehzahl", directly under KL 87 Spannung (DME Main Relay or Terminal 87 Voltage) in FIRST Group of Analog Measured Values (Parameters or Live Data) in F5 Status. Menu Path: INPA > DME > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F1 Measured Values Group 1.I looked at the funky bar graph with green infill and rpms don't move at all.

Check fuse F11, as that powers Crankshaft Sensor, Fuel Tank Vent Valve, and MAF Sensor. You previously reported faults for each of those. [Those faults were because the transfer case control module was disconnected. I'm pretty sure that pt-can requires that module be connected.]F11 ALSO powers the OZS. Can you read "Static" (engine off) Oil Level?
GeorgeFunny enough, I just got another error as I cannot read my oil level. I just changed the oil a couple of weeks ago but I never did get around to resetting it properly.

I can check F11.

[brogrammer]

Fuse F11 checks out just fine for continuity.

I ordered another sensor and the vehicle started up, but only once before it quickly shut itself down, the code returned and the vehicle has not been started since.

I'm trying to trace the wires from the valve to the harness but I can't seem to find it.

gbalthrop have a diagram?

[brogrammer]

I have traced the wires to a '218' blue and white wire that goes to the engine ecu and the other is the supply from the fuse circuit. They both tested solid for continuity.

Maybe the engine ecu and/or pin is bad.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by brogrammer

Fuse F11 checks out just fine for continuity.
I ordered another sensor [Crankshaft Sensor??] and the vehicle started up, but only once before it quickly shut itself down, the code returned and the vehicle has not been started since. [F11 still OK NOW?]
I'm trying to trace the wires from the valve [What "valve"?] to the harness but I can't seem to find it. [Please Clarify what you are trying to trace, and what "Diagram" is needed.] ...

Originally Posted by brogrammer

I have traced the wires to a '218' blue and white wire that goes to the engine ecu and the other is the supply from the fuse circuit. They both tested solid for continuity...

Don't understand what "wires to a '218' blue/white wire" you are referencing. Need to go back to beginning:
1) Do you have INPA working? If so, please do INPA < Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules and attach a screenprint of current codes. See attached pdf: INPA Tutorial Quickstart.

2) If you don't have INPA, please attach list of current fault codes, and indicate Make/Model of Scan Tool Used.

3) Do you currently have an RPM reading on Tach or Live Data with INPA/Scan Tool during Starter Cranking? Does your OZS give a 'Static' oil level reading?
George

[brogrammer]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Don't understand what "wires to a '218' blue/white wire" you are referencing. Need to go back to beginning:
1) Do you have INPA working? If so, please do INPA < Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules and attach a screenprint of current codes. See attached pdf: INPA Tutorial Quickstart.

This is what it means.

There are two wires that plug into the valve. One is a supply and the other is apparently a control signal. The supply signal on MY vehicle comes from one of the connectors in the DME/DDE box just under the hood. It connects to Pin 2 of one of the connectors that run to the junction box in the glovebox.

The other wire, is a blue and white striped wire that has the number '218' printed on it. This wire runs into pin 23 on the engine control module.

Yes. I have INPA working as indicated in the original post. The codes have already been posted earlier. The main issue is with P0458/2A19 as it would cause the crank no start condition.

2) If you don't have INPA, please attach list of current fault codes, and indicate Make/Model of Scan Tool Used.
JBBF - A6CF 61

MRS - 93BB E4
93AA E0
93AD E0
93C3 E2

DME/DDE - 2A19 D2 - Tank-venting valve, activation

Reading directly from the ENGINE module I get P0458.


VGSG - 54C8 68

DSC - 5412 E0
5F13 E0
9520 E0
5EBA E0

CAS - A0B4 60 -

FZD - A092 60

KOMBI - A554 60

FRM - A8AE 64
9CC0 64
9CBF 64

3) Do you currently have an RPM reading on Tach or Live Data with INPA/Scan Tool during Starter Cranking? Does your OZS give a 'Static' oil level reading?
The RPM stays at zero. But let me double check and get some 'live' data. I'll see about the oil level reading.
George

response in RED

[brogrammer]

You should be able to see clearly what I mean. In the attached image.

#2 is the supply from the fuse box/relay. I am able to verify continuity between the connection at the valve and this point. I was able to measure ~12 volts at this line.

#23 is the connection to the engine control module. Between this line and the valve I can measure continuity so there should be no issue in the wire.

The only thing I can think now is that the engine control module is fritzy with its pin #23.

[brogrammer]

According to internet lore the valve should measure no less than 28 ohms.

Both the replacement valves I ordered and the original all measured between 25 and 25.3 ohms.

Did I really order two faulty valves?

[brogrammer]

Problem solved. The wiring wasn't secure so while it could read hot when loaded it wasn't delivering enough power to the valve (the load that requires the most power on that circuit) and why I would see intermittent faults related to the other loads powered by that relay.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by brogrammer

Problem solved. The wiring wasn't secure...

Glad you found the CAUSE of the "Crank, NO Start" issue,
For those of us trying to "Play at home", please describe WHERE (what connector) the wiring was "NOT secure".

My SWAG would be that the Power Supply via(Red/Gray wire from F11 to X6041, OR the Orange wires at X60551.
BOTH of those Connectors are in the E-box, as shown in the attached ISTA ScreenPrints.

I guess THESE are the diagrams you were requesting earlier.
George

[brogrammer]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Glad you found the CAUSE of the "Crank, NO Start" issue,
For those of us trying to "Play at home", please describe WHERE (what connector) the wiring was "NOT secure".
K6300 / F11 The actual failure of connection was at the rear of the fusebox behind the glovebox.

My SWAG would be that the Power Supply via(Red/Gray wire from F11 to X6041, OR the Orange wires at X60551.
BOTH of those Connectors are in the E-box, as shown in the attached ISTA ScreenPrints.
It would be essentially the same wires but not at the engine bay but at the other end of the circuit in the fusebox.
I guess THESE are the diagrams you were requesting earlier.
George

Response in RED

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by brogrammer

Response in RED...The actual failure of connection was at the rear of the fusebox behind the glovebox.

Sorry to "Beat this into the ground", but just so others with similar issue may know what YOU found, I attach the SAME F11
Fuse Diagram, F11 supplying power to (1) Crankshaft Sensor, (2) Fuel Tank Vent Valve, (3) MAF Sensor, and (4) OZS Oil Condition
Sensor. You had fault codes or issues with each of those, suggesting lack of Voltage Supply from F11.

As I understand your last statement, the loose connection was at Connector X11002/1, Red/Gray wire.
Attached are TWO ISTA ScreenPrints, showing Location of Connector X11002 on firewall side of JB (Junction Box) Fuse Panel,
and Connector View of that Connector. My understanding is that this was simply a loose connection in the Power Supply
between fuse F11 (fuse was OK), and the 4 components it supplied power to, and the reason you had NO Tach signal, & "Crank, NO Start",
was lack of Crankshaft Sensor Signal received by DME. If there is anything NOT correct in that summary, please advise.
George

[brogrammer]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Sorry to "Beat this into the ground", but just so others with similar issue may know what YOU found, I attach the SAME F11
Fuse Diagram, F11 supplying power to (1) Crankshaft Sensor, (2) Fuel Tank Vent Valve, (3) MAF Sensor, and (4) OZS Oil Condition
Sensor. You had fault codes or issues with each of those, suggesting lack of Voltage Supply from F11.

As I understand your last statement, the loose connection was at Connector X11002/1, Red/Gray wire.
Attached are TWO ISTA ScreenPrints, showing Location of Connector X11002 on firewall side of JB (Junction Box) Fuse Panel,
and Connector View of that Connector. My understanding is that this was simply a loose connection in the Power Supply
between fuse F11 (fuse was OK), and the 4 components it supplied power to, and the reason you had NO Tach signal, & "Crank, NO Start",
was lack of Crankshaft Sensor Signal received by DME. If there is anything NOT correct in that summary, please advise.
George

I am not certain if it was solely the lack of crankshaft sensor signal. Sometimes that popped up and sometimes it didn't as everything was loose back there (even some of the individual pins had backed out of the housing).

The code that came up most of the time was related to the ventilation valve. I'm not sure if just the loss of the ventilation valve signal would also result in a crank no start.

I didn't go through the various permutations to confirm whether each individual connection would result in what behavior.

If you understand the system better and know that only a lack of crankshaft signal from the circuits supplied by F11, then you have described the failure exactly.